Author Topic: The Destruction and Defacing of Monuments  (Read 13356 times)

B Hughes

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Re: The Destruction and Defacing of Monuments
« Reply #120 on: July 19, 2020, 10:46:05 PM »

  I continue to wait for the leadership of one of the major political parties to condemn these actions, but that hasn't as yet occurred.  IMHO, that's why Trump, despite all his warts and tweets, will win by a landslide.  The American public is getting tired of it.


Dave Benke

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Re: The Destruction and Defacing of Monuments
« Reply #121 on: July 20, 2020, 03:49:39 PM »
How about a unanimous yes from this relatively fractured discussion board for a name change in Selma, Alabama.

The Edmund Pettus Bridge changed to the Rep. John Lewis Bridge. 

Any opposition? 

Dave Benke

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Re: The Destruction and Defacing of Monuments
« Reply #122 on: July 20, 2020, 03:52:47 PM »
How about a unanimous yes from this relatively fractured discussion board for a name change in Selma, Alabama.

The Edmund Pettus Bridge changed to the Rep. John Lewis Bridge. 

Up to others obviously to actually make the change, but I agree.

Charles Austin

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Re: The Destruction and Defacing of Monuments
« Reply #123 on: July 20, 2020, 04:16:17 PM »
Yes. My seminary sent five of my classmates to Selma for that event. I was not among them.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

D. Engebretson

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Re: The Destruction and Defacing of Monuments
« Reply #124 on: July 20, 2020, 04:20:11 PM »
How about a unanimous yes from this relatively fractured discussion board for a name change in Selma, Alabama.

The Edmund Pettus Bridge changed to the Rep. John Lewis Bridge. 

Any opposition? 

Dave Benke

I'll be honest.  I had to look up Edmund Pettus.  Guess my Civil War knowledge is sub par.  Given the history of Pettus (esp. his KKK affiliation) and the events on the bridge ("Bloody Sunday," 1965), it seems fitting to enact a name change. 
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Dan Fienen

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Re: The Destruction and Defacing of Monuments
« Reply #125 on: July 20, 2020, 04:56:24 PM »
I certainly understand and sympathize with the impulse to rename the bridge. However, I had a thought or several. This bridge was the site of one of the landmark events of the 60s civil rights movement. There is something deliciously ironic that this bridge, named for a General on the losing side of the Civil War and post war oppressor of Blacks, was the scene of what could have been a major defeat for the civil rights efforts but in the end became a rallying event and could been seen as ultimately a victory for the cause. Pettus lost again. Leave the name as a reminder that forces of oppression can be opposed and do lose. Leave it as not a memorial to the great general and humanitarian, he was none of the above, but to the memory of his repeated defeat.


The place itself has become iconic for all the pictures of the event and events remembering Bloody Sunday with the name prominently displayed. Would renaming it make it harder for people to find and recognize as they remember?


Perhaps that is too convoluted a logic to hold the day. Certainly, the general and the cause for which he fought both during the war and after should not be celebrated. To have it renamed in honor of civil rights leader who was beaten on that Bloody Sunday and who achieved much more greatness than Pettus ever did has irony of its own. 
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Dave Benke

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Re: The Destruction and Defacing of Monuments
« Reply #126 on: July 20, 2020, 06:12:22 PM »
Once upon a time Selma Alabama held an important and special place in the minds and hearts of folks from the Missouri Synod.  Concordia, Selma was located just a few blocks from that bridge.  So once upon a time seven or eight years ago I went to Concordia, Selma to see how we could from our spot in New York endeavor to support Concordia, Selma.  And so we walked to the Pettus Bridge, and then walked across it.  It is a location that's heavy, freighted with such significance and power in the struggle for racial justice and reconciliation.  Anyone who would walk across it would hear those echoes.  It's when you get to the top, and start walking down the other side, and see in your mind's eye those who were waiting, clubs swinging in the air, that it becomes a place welded into your soul.

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Re: The Destruction and Defacing of Monuments
« Reply #127 on: July 21, 2020, 08:08:05 AM »
How about a unanimous yes from this relatively fractured discussion board for a name change in Selma, Alabama.

The Edmund Pettus Bridge changed to the Rep. John Lewis Bridge. 

Any opposition? 

Dave Benke

From today's NYT. There's plenty of sympathy to rename after John Lewis. However, the people of Selma don't seem united on the question at this time.   :)

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/18/us/politics/edmund-pettus-bridge-renamed-john-lewis.html?searchResultPosition=1

Peace, JOHN
« Last Edit: July 21, 2020, 08:09:47 AM by John_Hannah »
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

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Re: The Destruction and Defacing of Monuments
« Reply #128 on: July 22, 2020, 12:58:31 PM »
How about a unanimous yes from this relatively fractured discussion board for a name change in Selma, Alabama.

The Edmund Pettus Bridge changed to the Rep. John Lewis Bridge. 

Any opposition? 

Dave Benke

From today's NYT. There's plenty of sympathy to rename after John Lewis. However, the people of Selma don't seem united on the question at this time.   :)

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/18/us/politics/edmund-pettus-bridge-renamed-john-lewis.html?searchResultPosition=1

Peace, JOHN
The local Democratic Representative make a good case for leaving the decision to the local citizens ... from the NYT article

“Representative Terri Sewell, Democrat of Alabama, said in a statement that although she understood the desire to honor Mr. Lewis’s legacy, a decision to rename the bridge should be made locally in Selma.”

Dave Benke

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Re: The Destruction and Defacing of Monuments
« Reply #129 on: July 22, 2020, 01:08:16 PM »
I think they'll come up with a blend of local, state and national in the end, a major reason being that John Lewis is a native son of Alabama.  The overarching philosophical point that all decisions should be local is one of the reasons for the calls for racial justice reform.  The development of Jim Crow was enabled by local segregation laws and KKK chapters. 

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Julio

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Re: The Destruction and Defacing of Monuments
« Reply #130 on: July 22, 2020, 02:52:40 PM »
I think they'll come up with a blend of local, state and national in the end, a major reason being that John Lewis is a native son of Alabama.  The overarching philosophical point that all decisions should be local is one of the reasons for the calls for racial justice reform.  The development of Jim Crow was enabled by local segregation laws and KKK chapters. 

Dave Benke
The important thing is that the decision is made locally ... and apparently ratified by the state since the state originally named the bridge ... without outside interference.

Dave Benke

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Re: The Destruction and Defacing of Monuments
« Reply #131 on: July 22, 2020, 04:31:49 PM »
I think they'll come up with a blend of local, state and national in the end, a major reason being that John Lewis is a native son of Alabama.  The overarching philosophical point that all decisions should be local is one of the reasons for the calls for racial justice reform.  The development of Jim Crow was enabled by local segregation laws and KKK chapters. 

Dave Benke
The important thing is that the decision is made locally ... and apparently ratified by the state since the state originally named the bridge ... without outside interference.

Why is that the "important thing," hermanito?  Su comentario es raro.  De que pais esta usted?

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Julio

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Re: The Destruction and Defacing of Monuments
« Reply #132 on: July 22, 2020, 05:45:59 PM »
I think they'll come up with a blend of local, state and national in the end, a major reason being that John Lewis is a native son of Alabama.  The overarching philosophical point that all decisions should be local is one of the reasons for the calls for racial justice reform.  The development of Jim Crow was enabled by local segregation laws and KKK chapters. 

Dave Benke
The important thing is that the decision is made locally ... and apparently ratified by the state since the state originally named the bridge ... without outside interference.

Why is that the "important thing,
Local rule ... Right of self determination ... aren’t those concepts what lead to the Declaration of Independence? Neither you or I reside anywhere close to Selma ... both you and I should have far more important issues local to each of us than to worry, posture and/or virtue signaling on issues and decisions that should be made by Selma and Alabama residents.

Dave Benke

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Re: The Destruction and Defacing of Monuments
« Reply #133 on: July 22, 2020, 10:04:12 PM »
I think they'll come up with a blend of local, state and national in the end, a major reason being that John Lewis is a native son of Alabama.  The overarching philosophical point that all decisions should be local is one of the reasons for the calls for racial justice reform.  The development of Jim Crow was enabled by local segregation laws and KKK chapters. 

Dave Benke
The important thing is that the decision is made locally ... and apparently ratified by the state since the state originally named the bridge ... without outside interference.

Why is that the "important thing,
Local rule ... Right of self determination ... aren’t those concepts what lead to the Declaration of Independence? Neither you or I reside anywhere close to Selma ... both you and I should have far more important issues local to each of us than to worry, posture and/or virtue signaling on issues and decisions that should be made by Selma and Alabama residents.

Somos ciudadenos de los Estados Unidos, hermanito.  Es posible a tener un opinion sobre muchas cosas, incluiendo el nombre propio de una puente en Alabama, o en Wyoming, si hay puentes in Wyoming (yo no se).

Dave Benke

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Re: The Destruction and Defacing of Monuments
« Reply #134 on: July 22, 2020, 10:07:20 PM »
Yes, there are bridges in Wyoming.  But the rivers under them are very shallow.