Author Topic: Speckhard: FL June The Church After Covid-19  (Read 3000 times)

Dave Likeness

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Speckhard: FL June The Church After Covid-19
« on: June 12, 2020, 07:12:20 PM »
Pastor Speckhard wrote an interesting and thought provoking article in the June 2020 FL

He examines possible ramifications of the shutdown for the local church & the church at large.
One of the things he mentions is "Waning Big Box Envy" as he speculates about the mega-
non-denominational churches.  He says: 'The big boxes will remain, but big box envy will wane
among traditional denominational congregations, especially those with a high view of the
Sacraments".

In my humble opinion, the mega non-denominational churches have never attracted Christians
who had a high view of the Sacraments.  The magnet for Big Box Churches is dynamic preaching.
People who are church shopping are attracted to good preaching which proclaims Jesus Christ
as the Way, the Truth and the Life.  Faithful Lutherans are convinced that we need both the Word
and the Sacrament each Sunday and they will not join a mega church.


peter_speckhard

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Re: Speckhard: FL June The Church After Covid-19
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2020, 07:22:52 PM »
Pastor Speckhard wrote an interesting and thought provoking article in the June 2020 FL

He examines possible ramifications of the shutdown for the local church & the church at large.
One of the things he mentions is "Waning Big Box Envy" as he speculates about the mega-
non-denominational churches.  He says: 'The big boxes will remain, but big box envy will wane
among traditional denominational congregations, especially those with a high view of the
Sacraments".

In my humble opinion, the mega non-denominational churches have never attracted Christians
who had a high view of the Sacraments.  The magnet for Big Box Churches is dynamic preaching.
People who are church shopping are attracted to good preaching which proclaims Jesus Christ
as the Way, the Truth and the Life.  Faithful Lutherans are convinced that we need both the Word
and the Sacrament each Sunday and they will not join a mega church.
The waning big box envy I think could happen would be among those who leave or might leave but among those who have remained Lutheran because of the sacraments but wish their Lutheran church would be more like a mega church in many ways. I致e had many faithful Lutherans in my evangelism or worship boards who have exhibited a lot of big box envy.

Jeremy_Loesch

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Re: Speckhard: FL June The Church After Covid-19
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2020, 08:15:20 PM »
^same

Jeremy

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Re: Speckhard: FL June The Church After Covid-19
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2020, 04:19:06 PM »
That was a solid article.  The "gradually, then suddenly" bit I get. We've probably gotten to the suddenly portion of a few things.  I'd bet a lot of money on the continuing quicker hollowing out of the middle against the ends.  You need the sacramental outpost.  You need a central "branding" effort, at least if you pretend to be a confessional body you do.  Anything between that is the stuff that gets disintermediated by technology and individualism.

Some of that suddenly factor is simply generational transfer, maybe most of it.  The big box place was the boomer's response to nostalgia for the fullness of the church of their youth.  And they would do anything to keep that - fog machines, zero theological content, etc.  Believe, teach and confess was a deep secondary concern to "make me feel like the USA is still a Christian Nation".  Nobody under 50 is fighting that battle.

The next wave of church-political elections really needs to be about one question: as we finally stop throwing money at stuff that can't be saved, how are we going to fashion a church that works in a technologically connected way?


Charles Austin

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Re: Speckhard: FL June The Church After Covid-19
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2020, 04:26:12 PM »
I知 not getting my forum letter, although I paid. I値l have to look into that.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Parishes in Iowa, Nw York and New Jersey. LCA and LWF staff. Former journalist. Now retired, living in Minneapolis.

Dave Benke

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Re: Speckhard: FL June The Church After Covid-19
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2020, 07:44:00 PM »
The point that hit home to me in the article was that a 50 year old experienced pastor is now having to learn in a brand new way what the pastoral ministry in a congregation will be like going forward, a reboot.

As a 74 year old experienced pastor in the same boat, without the benefit of time, I'm either having to make a pivot to a new way of doing the vocation or - retire.  So far I'm into the pivot thing, but the knees aren't what they used to be.

Dave Benke

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Re: Speckhard: FL June The Church After Covid-19
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2020, 08:25:43 PM »
I知 not getting my forum letter, although I paid. I値l have to look into that.
Mine just came today Pastor Austin.

Dave Likeness

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Re: Speckhard: FL June The Church After Covid-19
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2020, 10:29:43 PM »
This song is dedicated to 50 yr old Pastor Speckhard & 74 yr old Pastor Benke

Don't be ashamed of your age
Don't let the years get you down
Your parish still thinks of you
As the best pastor in town

Don't mind the gray in your hair
Just think of the fun putting it there
In the chapters of life don't skip a page
So don't be ashamed of your age

James J Eivan

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Re: Speckhard: FL June The Church After Covid-19
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2020, 12:55:29 AM »
I知 not getting my forum letter, although I paid. I値l have to look into that.
Mine just came today Pastor Austin.
Perhaps the Minneapolis area Forum Letters where used by the 叢eaceful 蘇ate free protesters to start the fires that burned much of the city ... or perhaps the postal carriers where not allowed to complete their appointed rounds.

Dave Benke

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Re: Speckhard: FL June The Church After Covid-19
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2020, 08:11:22 AM »
This song is dedicated to 50 yr old Pastor Speckhard & 74 yr old Pastor Benke

Don't be ashamed of your age
Don't let the years get you down
Your parish still thinks of you
As the best pastor in town

Don't mind the gray in your hair
Just think of the fun putting it there
In the chapters of life don't skip a page
So don't be ashamed of your age

Thanks for this, Dave.  Not having had a haircut in three months, I actually have some gray hair - it's at the back of the head on the bottom.  Very distinguished.

Dave Benke

peter_speckhard

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Re: Speckhard: FL June The Church After Covid-19
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2020, 08:28:16 AM »
This song is dedicated to 50 yr old Pastor Speckhard & 74 yr old Pastor Benke

Don't be ashamed of your age
Don't let the years get you down
Your parish still thinks of you
As the best pastor in town

Don't mind the gray in your hair
Just think of the fun putting it there
In the chapters of life don't skip a page
So don't be ashamed of your age

Thanks for this, Dave.  Not having had a haircut in three months, I actually have some gray hair - it's at the back of the head on the bottom.  Very distinguished.

Dave Benke
Ditto. My gray is in my beard, which I致e worn for less than a year now. I figured I知 50 so what the heck. But with three teenage daughters and a 10 year old son still at home, plus two foster kids here for who knows how long, I知 not even close to retirement on any vocational front. 

Michael Slusser

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Re: Speckhard: FL June The Church After Covid-19
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2020, 09:50:59 AM »
I found Pastor Speckhard's reflection very comforting, particularly the thought that those newly ordained today may have less trouble adapting to the changes that are occurring than old men like me and young but experienced pastors like himself. We sent five newly ordained to their first assignments this past weekend, and the essay in FL made me feel cheerful about them.

Peace,
Michael
Fr. Michael Slusser
Retired Roman Catholic priest and theologian

Richard Johnson

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Re: Speckhard: FL June The Church After Covid-19
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2020, 11:40:33 AM »
I知 not getting my forum letter, although I paid. I値l have to look into that.

Mine hasn't come yet either. But a reminder: You can sign up for the pdf version, in which case you would have had it three weeks ago.
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

Charles Austin

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Re: Speckhard: FL June The Church After Covid-19
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2020, 11:45:26 AM »
Thought I did the PDF thing.  But the last two Came in the mail.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Parishes in Iowa, Nw York and New Jersey. LCA and LWF staff. Former journalist. Now retired, living in Minneapolis.

Richard Johnson

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Re: Speckhard: FL June The Church After Covid-19
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2020, 11:48:55 AM »
Thought I did the PDF thing.  But the last two Came in the mail.

Contact Donna in the ALPB office. She manages the subscriptions, and tells me when to add somebody to the email list. I don't recall her telling me to add you, and I've looked back over six months.
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS