Speckhard: FL June The Church After Covid-19

Started by Dave Likeness, June 12, 2020, 07:12:20 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Dave Likeness

Pastor Speckhard wrote an interesting and thought provoking article in the June 2020 FL

He examines possible ramifications of the shutdown for the local church & the church at large.
One of the things he mentions is "Waning Big Box Envy" as he speculates about the mega-
non-denominational churches.  He says: 'The big boxes will remain, but big box envy will wane
among traditional denominational congregations, especially those with a high view of the
Sacraments".

In my humble opinion, the mega non-denominational churches have never attracted Christians
who had a high view of the Sacraments.  The magnet for Big Box Churches is dynamic preaching.
People who are church shopping are attracted to good preaching which proclaims Jesus Christ
as the Way, the Truth and the Life.  Faithful Lutherans are convinced that we need both the Word
and the Sacrament each Sunday and they will not join a mega church.


peter_speckhard

Quote from: Dave Likeness on June 12, 2020, 07:12:20 PM
Pastor Speckhard wrote an interesting and thought provoking article in the June 2020 FL

He examines possible ramifications of the shutdown for the local church & the church at large.
One of the things he mentions is "Waning Big Box Envy" as he speculates about the mega-
non-denominational churches.  He says: 'The big boxes will remain, but big box envy will wane
among traditional denominational congregations, especially those with a high view of the
Sacraments".

In my humble opinion, the mega non-denominational churches have never attracted Christians
who had a high view of the Sacraments.  The magnet for Big Box Churches is dynamic preaching.
People who are church shopping are attracted to good preaching which proclaims Jesus Christ
as the Way, the Truth and the Life.  Faithful Lutherans are convinced that we need both the Word
and the Sacrament each Sunday and they will not join a mega church.
The waning big box envy I think could happen would be among those who leave or might leave but among those who have remained Lutheran because of the sacraments but wish their Lutheran church would be more like a mega church in many ways. I've had many faithful Lutherans in my evangelism or worship boards who have exhibited a lot of big box envy.


Mark Brown

That was a solid article.  The "gradually, then suddenly" bit I get. We've probably gotten to the suddenly portion of a few things.  I'd bet a lot of money on the continuing quicker hollowing out of the middle against the ends.  You need the sacramental outpost.  You need a central "branding" effort, at least if you pretend to be a confessional body you do.  Anything between that is the stuff that gets disintermediated by technology and individualism.

Some of that suddenly factor is simply generational transfer, maybe most of it.  The big box place was the boomer's response to nostalgia for the fullness of the church of their youth.  And they would do anything to keep that - fog machines, zero theological content, etc.  Believe, teach and confess was a deep secondary concern to "make me feel like the USA is still a Christian Nation".  Nobody under 50 is fighting that battle.

The next wave of church-political elections really needs to be about one question: as we finally stop throwing money at stuff that can't be saved, how are we going to fashion a church that works in a technologically connected way?


Charles Austin

I'm not getting my forum letter, although I paid. I'll have to look into that.
Iowa-born. ELCA pastor, ordained 1967. Former journalist. Retired in Minneapolis. English major. Elitist snob? Probably.

Dave Benke

The point that hit home to me in the article was that a 50 year old experienced pastor is now having to learn in a brand new way what the pastoral ministry in a congregation will be like going forward, a reboot.

As a 74 year old experienced pastor in the same boat, without the benefit of time, I'm either having to make a pivot to a new way of doing the vocation or - retire.  So far I'm into the pivot thing, but the knees aren't what they used to be.

Dave Benke
It's OK to Pray

Pastor Ken Kimball

Quote from: Charles Austin on June 13, 2020, 04:26:12 PM
I'm not getting my forum letter, although I paid. I'll have to look into that.
Mine just came today Pastor Austin.

Dave Likeness

This song is dedicated to 50 yr old Pastor Speckhard & 74 yr old Pastor Benke

Don't be ashamed of your age
Don't let the years get you down
Your parish still thinks of you
As the best pastor in town

Don't mind the gray in your hair
Just think of the fun putting it there
In the chapters of life don't skip a page
So don't be ashamed of your age

James J Eivan

Quote from: Pastor Ken Kimball on June 13, 2020, 08:25:43 PM
Quote from: Charles Austin on June 13, 2020, 04:26:12 PM
I'm not getting my forum letter, although I paid. I'll have to look into that.
Mine just came today Pastor Austin.
Perhaps the Minneapolis area Forum Letters where used by the 'peaceful' 'hate free' protesters to start the fires that burned much of the city ... or perhaps the postal carriers where not allowed to complete their appointed rounds.

Dave Benke

Quote from: Dave Likeness on June 13, 2020, 10:29:43 PM
This song is dedicated to 50 yr old Pastor Speckhard & 74 yr old Pastor Benke

Don't be ashamed of your age
Don't let the years get you down
Your parish still thinks of you
As the best pastor in town

Don't mind the gray in your hair
Just think of the fun putting it there
In the chapters of life don't skip a page
So don't be ashamed of your age

Thanks for this, Dave.  Not having had a haircut in three months, I actually have some gray hair - it's at the back of the head on the bottom.  Very distinguished.

Dave Benke
It's OK to Pray

peter_speckhard

Quote from: Dave Benke on June 14, 2020, 08:11:22 AM
Quote from: Dave Likeness on June 13, 2020, 10:29:43 PM
This song is dedicated to 50 yr old Pastor Speckhard & 74 yr old Pastor Benke

Don't be ashamed of your age
Don't let the years get you down
Your parish still thinks of you
As the best pastor in town

Don't mind the gray in your hair
Just think of the fun putting it there
In the chapters of life don't skip a page
So don't be ashamed of your age

Thanks for this, Dave.  Not having had a haircut in three months, I actually have some gray hair - it's at the back of the head on the bottom.  Very distinguished.

Dave Benke
Ditto. My gray is in my beard, which I've worn for less than a year now. I figured I'm 50 so what the heck. But with three teenage daughters and a 10 year old son still at home, plus two foster kids here for who knows how long, I'm not even close to retirement on any vocational front. 

Michael Slusser

I found Pastor Speckhard's reflection very comforting, particularly the thought that those newly ordained today may have less trouble adapting to the changes that are occurring than old men like me and young but experienced pastors like himself. We sent five newly ordained to their first assignments this past weekend, and the essay in FL made me feel cheerful about them.

Peace,
Michael
Fr. Michael Slusser
Retired Roman Catholic priest and theologian

Richard Johnson

Quote from: Charles Austin on June 13, 2020, 04:26:12 PM
I'm not getting my forum letter, although I paid. I'll have to look into that.

Mine hasn't come yet either. But a reminder: You can sign up for the pdf version, in which case you would have had it three weeks ago.
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

Charles Austin

Thought I did the PDF thing.  But the last two Came in the mail.
Iowa-born. ELCA pastor, ordained 1967. Former journalist. Retired in Minneapolis. English major. Elitist snob? Probably.

Richard Johnson

Quote from: Charles Austin on June 14, 2020, 11:45:26 AM
Thought I did the PDF thing.  But the last two Came in the mail.

Contact Donna in the ALPB office. She manages the subscriptions, and tells me when to add somebody to the email list. I don't recall her telling me to add you, and I've looked back over six months.
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk