Author Topic: Defunding the Police  (Read 10183 times)

D. Engebretson

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Re: Defunding the Police
« Reply #45 on: June 09, 2020, 07:27:45 PM »
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

Charles Austin

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Re: Defunding the Police
« Reply #46 on: June 09, 2020, 08:05:10 PM »
Pastor Engebretson:
The police, as a whole, are being vilified.  Is this right?
Me:
It is not right. It is not fair. But it is extremely understandable.
And that’s what we have to do. We have to understand why the police are being vilified. It will not do to just say “they’re not all bad.”
Every Roman Catholic priest in the country, to some extent, has to bear a bit of the burden put on the church by the pedophilia scandal. That’s not fair. That’s not right. That’s not just. But it is understandable.
And every time a member of the Protestant clergy does something scandalous, we all get a piece of it.
Then consider this. Most of the scandals involving clergy do not involve multiple unjust deaths.
Can you understand why the police, as a whole, are being vilified?
Retired ELCA Pastor. Parishes in Iowa, Nw York and New Jersey. LCA and LWF staff. Former journalist. Now retired, living in Minneapolis.

Dan Fienen

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Re: Defunding the Police
« Reply #47 on: June 09, 2020, 09:44:45 PM »
Not all of the police are racist or brutal, nevertheless a few are and they need to be denounced and to an extent all police bear the stigma. Correct?


Only a very few priests have been abusive, but because of the few that are, all Catholics and all ministers bear some of the stigma. Correct?


Most of the protesters and demonstrations have been peaceful. But a few have been violent and some who are on the streets have used this an excuse for looting, arson, and assault.  Am I wrong that that has happened. So what should we do, ignore those who have been violent and pretend these have just been peaceful protests?
Pr. Daniel Fienen
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Charles Austin

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Re: Defunding the Police
« Reply #48 on: June 09, 2020, 10:11:45 PM »
How about you don’t send out the Cops, National Guard and military troops to use teargas, rubber bullets  and clubs on the non-violent ones?
Retired ELCA Pastor. Parishes in Iowa, Nw York and New Jersey. LCA and LWF staff. Former journalist. Now retired, living in Minneapolis.

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Defunding the Police
« Reply #49 on: June 09, 2020, 10:35:00 PM »
And you were doing so well in your previous, cognizant post ...
Don Kirchner

"Heaven's OK, but it’s not the end of the world." Jeff Gibbs

James J Eivan

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Re: Defunding the Police
« Reply #50 on: June 10, 2020, 01:57:47 AM »
How about you don’t send out the Cops, National Guard and military troops to use teargas, rubber bullets  and clubs on the non-violent ones?
How about these selfish anarchist thugs NOT interrupting Interstate highway traffic on the main route thru town to multiple main hospitals? 


How about the destructive thugs who looted and defaced untold business buildings with cans of spray paint? This is the behavior that brings out the tear gas and rubber bullets.


As has been said on numerous occasions,  life is complicated ... a few bad priests demonstrators reflect poorly on the entire priesthood crowd of demonstrators.


It is beyond belief that property destruction can be defended and excused by allegedly God fearing Americans😲
« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 02:06:14 AM by James »

Charles Austin

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Re: Defunding the Police
« Reply #51 on: June 10, 2020, 06:53:51 AM »
James:
It is beyond belief that property destruction can be defended and excused by allegedly God fearing Americans 
Me:
Not at all “beyond belief.”
In our history, we are often proud of the hundreds of thousands of “God-fearing Americans” who have often taken actions for good cause that resulted in property destruction.
-The Boston Tea Party, 1773
-Pennsylvania Mutiny, soldiers demanding pay owed to them - 1783
-The Honey War, territorial dispute between Iowa and Missouri - 1839
-Philadelphia Nativist Riots, against Catholics - 1844
-New York City police riot, when the Mayor dissolved a corrupt police force - 1857
-Philadelphia Trolly strike - 1910
-A whole bunch of union-organizing demonstrations in the early 20th Century
-The “Bonus Army”, veterans demanding promised benefits - 1932
-HUAC protests by students against House Unamerican Activities Committee - 1960
-A whole lot of civil rights and anti-war protests in the 1950s and 1960s
...and more.
Rioting, as they say and as our history proves, is “as American as apple pie” and sometimes the only way to get a just cause addressed by those in power.

Retired ELCA Pastor. Parishes in Iowa, Nw York and New Jersey. LCA and LWF staff. Former journalist. Now retired, living in Minneapolis.

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Defunding the Police
« Reply #52 on: June 10, 2020, 08:59:29 AM »
Rioting, as they say and as our history proves, is “as American as apple pie” and sometimes the only way to get a just cause addressed by those in power.

And there you are.  :o

MLK would be so proud, Charles.   ::)
Don Kirchner

"Heaven's OK, but it’s not the end of the world." Jeff Gibbs

Dan Fienen

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Re: Defunding the Police
« Reply #53 on: June 10, 2020, 09:10:48 AM »
Consider Korboi Balla a Black firefighter in Minneapolis.  It was his life's dream to open a sports bar. He had invested countless hours and his life's savings in making his dream a reality. The opening for his dream was pushed back by the Covid-19 shut down. Rioters looted and burned his dream to the ground. But I suppose Charles that you would tell him the he should be glad that his hard work, savings, and dreams were a sacrifice on the altar making a statement through rioting. A proud moment for Minneapolis,  your new home town.
Pr. Daniel Fienen
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James J Eivan

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Re: Defunding the Police
« Reply #54 on: June 10, 2020, 09:11:52 AM »
Rioting, as they say and as our history proves, is “as American as apple pie” and sometimes the only way to get a just cause addressed by those in power.

And there you are.  :o

MLK would be so proud, Charles.   ::)
Awaiting Biblical teaching that teaches us NOT to protect the property and business of our neighbor ...


Apparently there is commandment that encourages the destruction of the property of those with whom we disagree.


A perfect example example of the intolerance of the "tolerent" 😆😅

D. Engebretson

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Re: Defunding the Police
« Reply #55 on: June 10, 2020, 09:13:00 AM »
Only time will tell, but I fear that the backlash from the "Defund the Police" movement will be an unfortunate exodus of very good law enforcement officers from this necessary area of community defense. I think that even in a time of emotional overreaction, unnecessary consequences ensue, and among those consequences will be the fatigue of police officers tired and weary from being vilified and treated as enemies of their communities.  This fatigue will translate into walking away from careers that they have honorable served.  A loss of such experience could be devastating to those who believe that tearing it all down and rebuilding is the answer.  Yes, time will tell. I pray that such gutting of law enforcement does not reach my community. I do not wish to take part in this experiment.  Both as a citizen, and as an emergency service worker who often serves side-by-side with these men and women at times of community crisis.  I can't afford in my work to see them disappear.  That may sound like an overreaction, but just like those who encourage us to listen to people of color, I encourage us to listen to people who wear badges and stand on the front line of violence and chaos and hatred and then have to go home each night and try to keep their minds from being consumed by it.
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

Steven W Bohler

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Re: Defunding the Police
« Reply #56 on: June 10, 2020, 09:34:54 AM »
Rioting, as they say and as our history proves, is “as American as apple pie” and sometimes the only way to get a just cause addressed by those in power.

And there you are.  :o

MLK would be so proud, Charles.   ::)
Awaiting Biblical teaching that teaches us NOT to protect the property and business of our neighbor ...


Apparently there is commandment that encourages the destruction of the property of those with whom we disagree.


A perfect example example of the intolerance of the "tolerent" 😆😅

"You gotta break some eggs to make an omelet."  But you never hear the eggs saying it; it's only the one eating the omelet.  So what if innocent people have to suffer, as long as MY agenda is advanced.  Chomp, chomp, Charles.

James J Eivan

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Re: Defunding the Police
« Reply #57 on: June 10, 2020, 09:44:28 AM »

Consider Korboi Balla a Black firefighter in Minneapolis.  It was his life's dream to open a sports bar. He had invested countless hours and his life's savings in making his dream a reality. The opening for his dream was pushed back by the Covid-19 shut down. Rioters looted and burned his dream to the ground. But I suppose Charles that you would tell him the he should be glad that his hard work, savings, and dreams were a sacrifice on the altar making a statement through rioting. A proud moment for Minneapolis,  your new home town.
  How about further proof the failure of the black lives matter thought processes. A black policeman killed by a black man while providing security fit a black business.

Where is the righteous indignation?  Where are the peaceful protests? Where are the crowds attending his funeral with wall to wall national TV coverage?

It seems some have forgotten the song of our childhood  ...

Quote from: Jesus Loves the Children
[/size]

Jesus loves the little childrenAll the children of the worldRed, brown, yellowBlack and whiteThey are precious in His sightJesus loves the little childrenOf the world

Jesus died for all the childrenAll the children of the worldRed, brown, yellowBlack and whiteThey are precious in His sightJesus died for all the childrenOf the world.

Jesus rose for all the childrenAll the children of the worldRed, brown, yellowBlack and whiteThey are precious in His sightJesus rose for all the childrenOf the world

Lyrics

My pastor's life matters as my life matters ... as much all lives matter!

Let's cut the divisiveness and posturing.

D. Engebretson

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Re: Defunding the Police
« Reply #58 on: June 10, 2020, 12:30:14 PM »
A press briefing was held with the chief of the Minneapolis Police Department this morning.

https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-news/minneapolis-police-chief-ends-contract-negotiations-with-union

https://www.fox9.com/news/minneapolis-police-chief-announces-new-reforms-withdrawal-from-union-contract-negotiations

https://www.facebook.com/channel3000/videos/250264569756566/?notif_id=1591801811966657&notif_t=live_video

When asked about the announcement from a majority of Minneapolis City Council members about disbanding the department, saying it's beyond reform, he said the following:

"As chief, I'm obligated to ensure the safety of our 400,000 residents.

"Our elected officials can engage in those conversations. Until there's a robust plan that reassures the safety of our residents, I will not leave them, I will not leave them behind."


He took questions from the press after his address.  The link for the video above contains them. 



Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

mj4

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Re: Defunding the Police
« Reply #59 on: June 10, 2020, 01:23:21 PM »
Why chant Defund the Police and then endlessly explain how and why it doesn’t really defund, it redirects funding, and there will still be police, but just not, you know, “police.” The answer is that it channels rage into progressivism. Black Lives Matter does too. That’s why I do not support such slogans or movements. They are just fronts for political action by people who think in Marxist categories.

It's rather like when the ELCA declared itself a Sanctuary Church. We didn't really mean what the words mean. In this case, "Appoint a commission to investigate alternatives to the current policing model, and present those findings for public review and possible implementation!" doesn't chant well on the streets. And it's difficult to fit it on a sign.