Author Topic: Candace Owens video. Thoughts?  (Read 6761 times)

Charles Austin

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Re: Candace Owens video. Thoughts?
« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2020, 10:16:00 PM »
Eileen, I hope that you will join me in prayers that saner, cooler, more soulful heads will prevail at the higher levels of our government so that what is good, noble and hopeful about our great country will not be further damaged. We still have checks and balances - protections against misuse of presidential authority - in place. People who do have souls, are compassionate and live in the real world are out there and up there. May they speak and may they prevail.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Candace Owens video. Thoughts?
« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2020, 10:39:47 PM »
Foster children by definition have experienced trauma that is not their fault. One effect of that trauma is often problematic, destructive behaviors. Another effect is that is forces them to construct a personal narrative for their condition. Some think they must be very bad. Some think the system is out to get them. Some think they are just constantly victims of bad luck. Virtually never does their personal narrative line up with reality very well. But you can't live with the trauma without some attempt at explaining and understanding it. The question is what to do about it as a foster parent. It would be cruel to "debunk" the narrative that exists to provide the only sense of meaning and perhaps comfort the traumatized person has, at least not right away. But at some point the narrative becomes a big liability and has to be replaced with something that corresponds to the facts. And that can really hurt.

I know of one case where the kid thinks that Amazon won't deliver to his house because it is in a poor neighborhood. They take his mom's money but then never deliver the stuff. The reality is that his mom spends the money on drugs and tells him she ordered things for him on Amazon and it never came. He loves his mom, and she loves him, but addiction is a debilitating thing. Eventually he will learn that Amazon is not against him and that some of his family's problems were not externally imposed on them. But for now he needs to believe the story-- better some faceless corporation be at fault for their poverty than his mother's choices. But only for now.

The trauma experienced by the African American community historically is real and not their fault. But the predominant narrative constructed as a coping mechanism does not comport with reality. As more and more people dig into the data, the idea that police brutality and racism against black people is any kind of explanation for the ongoing problems in the black community will fall apart. That doesn't mean their condition is their fault. It means that falling back on "systemic racism" without tackling other issues head on eventually becomes an enabling and debilitating charade. 

 
« Last Edit: June 05, 2020, 11:28:33 PM by peter_speckhard »

Charles Austin

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Re: Candace Owens video. Thoughts?
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2020, 05:10:28 AM »
Today, from the paper people here don’t like, (but do you dispute the facts in it?) My emphasis added.
WASHINGTON — President Trump began his Friday by drawing criticism from Democrats for declaring that new unemployment numbers made it “a great day” for George Floyd, the black man whose death in the custody of white police officers has touched off protests and rioting across the country.
   He ended it by tweeting a video of a supporter declaring that Mr. Floyd was “not a good person.”
   After a week of unrest in the capital, Mr. Trump had gone to the Rose Garden to declare victory over a coronavirus pandemic that has ravaged the economy, promoting the new numbers and planning to carry that message with him on a trip to Maine later in the day. His jarring reference to Mr. Floyd, made during a speech centered on the economy, overshadowed it.
   “Hopefully, George is looking down right now and saying this is a great thing that’s happening for our country,” Mr. Trump said. “This is a great day for him, it’s a great day for everybody. This is a great day for everybody. This is a great, great day in terms of equality.”
   Twelve hours later, the president tweeted a video of Candace Owens, a young black supporter who has questioned Mr. Floyd’s fitness as a “martyr” for the protests. “George Floyd was not a good person,” Ms. Owens said in that video. “I don’t care who wants to spin that.”
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

Charles Austin

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Re: Candace Owens video. Thoughts?
« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2020, 05:15:09 AM »
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

Eileen Smith

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Re: Candace Owens video. Thoughts?
« Reply #34 on: June 06, 2020, 09:23:54 AM »
Eileen, I hope that you will join me in prayers that saner, cooler, more soulful heads will prevail at the higher levels of our government so that what is good, noble and hopeful about our great country will not be further damaged. We still have checks and balances - protections against misuse of presidential authority - in place. People who do have souls, are compassionate and live in the real world are out there and up there. May they speak and may they prevail.

Amen!  I am certainly with you in prayer. 

peter_speckhard

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Re: Candace Owens video. Thoughts?
« Reply #35 on: June 06, 2020, 09:59:08 AM »
Today, from the paper people here don’t like, (but do you dispute the facts in it?) My emphasis added.
WASHINGTON — President Trump began his Friday by drawing criticism from Democrats for declaring that new unemployment numbers made it “a great day” for George Floyd, the black man whose death in the custody of white police officers has touched off protests and rioting across the country.
   He ended it by tweeting a video of a supporter declaring that Mr. Floyd was “not a good person.”
   After a week of unrest in the capital, Mr. Trump had gone to the Rose Garden to declare victory over a coronavirus pandemic that has ravaged the economy, promoting the new numbers and planning to carry that message with him on a trip to Maine later in the day. His jarring reference to Mr. Floyd, made during a speech centered on the economy, overshadowed it.
   “Hopefully, George is looking down right now and saying this is a great thing that’s happening for our country,” Mr. Trump said. “This is a great day for him, it’s a great day for everybody. This is a great day for everybody. This is a great, great day in terms of equality.”
   Twelve hours later, the president tweeted a video of Candace Owens, a young black supporter who has questioned Mr. Floyd’s fitness as a “martyr” for the protests. “George Floyd was not a good person,” Ms. Owens said in that video. “I don’t care who wants to spin that.”
I dispute the part I bolded. I heard parts of his speech on the news and heard several people talking about the employment numbers yesterday, but didn't hear anyone talking about the president's comments about how Floyd would love these lower than expected unemployment numbers. What I bolded it not a fact, it is an attempt to control the national conversation by telling everyone what the focus should be on. The job numbers were so astoundingly good that any attempt to make it about Trump's little aside about how much Floyd would like those numbers is simply panic about the direction of the news cycle. But the official party line from WaPo and NYT is something they can always count on their loyal readers to parrot.

The other part I bolded is further proof the article is not interested in the news. What Trump tweeted about Candace Owen has nothing to do with his speech or the unemployment numbers. If it were a news story, it wouldn't introduce off-topic events. Or, if the story was simply about Trump did yesterday in general, it would say something more like, "At the end of the day, he tweeted out a video by Candace Owen, a young black woman who s critical of the protests and supportive of the president." By telling their readers that the really relevant thing about her video is that she said Floyd was not a good person, when anyone who watched the video would know that wasn't the point of the video nor even really accurate outside the context she gave for the statement, shows the incredible bias of the reporter.

Most of the articles you post here, Charles, should bear the simple headline, "Here is what we want you to think about Trump." And you fall for it time and time again. You hate that he makes everything about him, but you constantly go to news sources that make everything about him, and then repost links to those stories. And your thinking about Trump mirrors those sources precisely.

Steven W Bohler

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Re: Candace Owens video. Thoughts?
« Reply #36 on: June 06, 2020, 10:03:59 AM »
Eileen, I hope that you will join me in prayers that saner, cooler, more soulful heads will prevail at the higher levels of our government so that what is good, noble and hopeful about our great country will not be further damaged. We still have checks and balances - protections against misuse of presidential authority - in place. People who do have souls, are compassionate and live in the real world are out there and up there. May they speak and may they prevail.

When you and Ms. Smith say that some people have no souls, you are engaging in something even worse than racism.  It removes those individuals from humanity altogether and excuses (or even enables) treating them as subhuman.  And, theologically, it removes them from the work of Christ.

Charles Austin

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Re: Candace Owens video. Thoughts?
« Reply #37 on: June 06, 2020, 10:26:35 AM »
Pastor Bohler writes:
And, theologically, it removes them from the work of Christ.

I comment:
Possibly, but we can always hope.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

Steven W Bohler

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Re: Candace Owens video. Thoughts?
« Reply #38 on: June 06, 2020, 10:40:41 AM »
Pastor Bohler writes:
And, theologically, it removes them from the work of Christ.

I comment:
Possibly, but we can always hope.

What does that mean?  You hope they are not removed from the work of Christ?  Did Jesus not die for Donald Trump?  Did He not pay for Donald Trump's sins?

Charles Austin

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Re: Candace Owens video. Thoughts?
« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2020, 11:52:24 AM »
It means, Pastor Bohler, That at the current time, I consider the matter of the president’s redemption or salvation not very important. But, yeah, I believe that Jesus died for his sins. So what?
And we digress. Your rabbit holes often have the name of theological constructs on the sign above them. But they are still rabbit holes. You dive in and pretty soon you are lost and forget what you were looking for in the first place. I’m  staying above ground.
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Steven W Bohler

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Re: Candace Owens video. Thoughts?
« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2020, 12:37:49 PM »
It means, Pastor Bohler, That at the current time, I consider the matter of the president’s redemption or salvation not very important. But, yeah, I believe that Jesus died for his sins. So what?
And we digress. Your rabbit holes often have the name of theological constructs on the sign above them. But they are still rabbit holes. You dive in and pretty soon you are lost and forget what you were looking for in the first place. I’m  staying above ground.

1. "That at the current time, I consider the matter of the president’s redemption or salvation not very important."  How appalling a comment to make!  But, that is precisely what I was saying above, about how such comments as "soul-less" enable us to devalue or write off others.

2. "But, yeah, I believe that Jesus died for his sins. So what?"  So what?  Maybe you should treat him as someone the Lord loves so highly that He would suffer hell for him.  Rather than say he is without a soul.

3. "And we digress." Sorry, I thought this was a THEOLOGICAL discussion group, rather than a political platform for you to spew your hatred of Donald Trump.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Candace Owens video. Thoughts?
« Reply #41 on: June 06, 2020, 12:40:40 PM »
This might explain why I heard snippets of Trump talking about jobs numbers and not having those remarks overshadowed by an aside about Floyd.

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/matt-margolis/2020/06/05/fake-news-media-falsely-claim-trump-invoked-george-floyd-when-discussing-jobs-report-n500781

“Equal justice under the law must mean that every American receives equal treatment in every encounter with law enforcement regardless of race, color, gender, or creed. They have to share fair treatment from law enforcement. They have to receive it,” Trump said. “We all saw what happened last week. We can’t let that happen. Hopefully, George is looking down right now and saying ‘this is a great thing that’s happening for our country.’ It’s a great day for him. It’s a great day for everybody. This is a great day for everybody. This is a great, great day in terms of equality.”


Charles Austin

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Re: Candace Owens video. Thoughts?
« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2020, 02:30:26 PM »
Pastor Bohler, you are not devoid of memory. So you might recall how many times I have said I do not hate the president. We pray for him constantly. But I’m not going to go into the details of his redemption and/or salvation in this modest forum. So please stop saying that I hate him.  8)
I did have a good idea, however, on how we could improve the statistics about police violence against African-Americans. Right now police violence against African-Americans is considerably higher than it is against white Americans.
So here’s my solution.The police simply have to start beating the crap out of more white suspects, and shooting more unarmed white suspects.
That will even out the statistics and things won’t appear to be so bad.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Candace Owens video. Thoughts?
« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2020, 02:37:22 PM »
Pastor Bohler, you are not devoid of memory. So you might recall how many times I have said I do not hate the president. We pray for him constantly. But I’m not going to go into the details of his redemption and/or salvation in this modest forum. So please stop saying that I hate him.  8)
I did have a good idea, however, on how we could improve the statistics about police violence against African-Americans. Right now police violence against African-Americans is considerably higher than it is against white Americans.
So here’s my solution.The police simply have to start beating the crap out of more white suspects, and shooting more unarmed white suspects.
That will even out the statistics and things won’t appear to be so bad.
So if the statistics showed that suspects resisting arrest are treated similarly regardless of the race of the officer or the race of the suspect, you would admit that the protests are barking up the wrong tree?

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Candace Owens video. Thoughts?
« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2020, 02:49:21 PM »
Pastor Bohler, you are not devoid of memory. So you might recall how many times I have said I do not hate the president. We pray for him constantly. But I’m not going to go into the details of his redemption and/or salvation in this modest forum. So please stop saying that I hate him.  8)
I did have a good idea, however, on how we could improve the statistics about police violence against African-Americans. Right now police violence against African-Americans is considerably higher than it is against white Americans.
So here’s my solution.The police simply have to start beating the crap out of more white suspects, and shooting more unarmed white suspects.
That will even out the statistics and things won’t appear to be so bad.
So if the statistics showed that suspects resisting arrest are treated similarly regardless of the race of the officer or the race of the suspect, you would admit that the protests are barking up the wrong tree?


A police officer's claim that a black man was resisting arrest and what the black man actually did are not necessarily the same thing. We've seen some videos of so-called resisting arrest claims. It looks like they were compliant.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]