Author Topic: Pondering "justice" and the death of George Floyd.......  (Read 39191 times)

Charles Austin

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Re: Pondering "justice" and the death of George Floyd.......
« Reply #180 on: June 01, 2020, 10:56:52 PM »
Oh, give up the nit-picking, Peter, and try hard to recognize the occasional excesses of rhetoric in a time of great tension and strife! Everyone does not employ your cool, calm, unruffled, intellectual, star-gazing musings devoid of real-earth passions and any expression possibly colored by emotion or passion.
Every sentence spoke in a heated time isn't just a collection of words to be unpacked for literalistic authenticity.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

Donald_Kirchner

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Don Kirchner

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peter_speckhard

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Re: Pondering "justice" and the death of George Floyd.......
« Reply #182 on: June 01, 2020, 11:08:14 PM »
Oh, give up the nit-picking, Peter, and try hard to recognize the occasional excesses of rhetoric in a time of great tension and strife! Everyone does not employ your cool, calm, unruffled, intellectual, star-gazing musings devoid of real-earth passions and any expression possibly colored by emotion or passion.
Every sentence spoke in a heated time isn't just a collection of words to be unpacked for literalistic authenticity.
I know. You certainly don't. Your passionate hatred explains much of the verbal excess with which you post. When I have such passions, I try hard not to vent them here. 

Charles Austin

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Re: Pondering "justice" and the death of George Floyd.......
« Reply #183 on: June 01, 2020, 11:12:55 PM »
For that matter, who cares what you think, Pastor Kirchner?
And for the thousandth time, Peter, it is not hatred, it is disgust and on some days I pity the president.
My words come from my concern for our country. 
Do you think I am the only one who has this assessment of our current situation and those acting as our elected leaders?
Tell me how you see leadership in the actions of our president? Tell me how you see concern for all the people of our land, a search for healing, an understanding of the complexities of our government, a respect for our laws.
Peter contends that what the president says doesn't matter. I think we are seeing that it does.

Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Pondering "justice" and the death of George Floyd.......
« Reply #184 on: June 01, 2020, 11:20:10 PM »
What stands is what the pastor of that church thinks. I heard him. He was appreciative.

I never stated what I think, Charles. I stated facts from the site. Your rabid reactions are disconcerting.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2020, 11:22:50 PM by Pr. Don Kirchner »
Don Kirchner

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peter_speckhard

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Re: Pondering "justice" and the death of George Floyd.......
« Reply #185 on: June 01, 2020, 11:35:49 PM »
For that matter, who cares what you think, Pastor Kirchner?
And for the thousandth time, Peter, it is not hatred, it is disgust and on some days I pity the president.
My words come from my concern for our country. 
Do you think I am the only one who has this assessment of our current situation and those acting as our elected leaders?
Tell me how you see leadership in the actions of our president? Tell me how you see concern for all the people of our land, a search for healing, an understanding of the complexities of our government, a respect for our laws.
Peter contends that what the president says doesn't matter. I think we are seeing that it does.
What he said at the church was completely non-controversial, at least from what I've seen. He stood with the peaceful protesters and against the violent element. He stood with poor communities against those who would trash them. That is his job. I see leadership (in a speaking style I do not appreciate) in the president's insistence that law enforcement enforce the law, which you would think every official would do, but sadly, some don't. I see lack of leadership from leaders pleading with mobs, encouraging mobs, or at the very least excusing mob behavior. The president is able to distinguish point of the protest and those who are making that point from the anarchists, antifa criminals, opportunists, and sundry losers making hay and ruining cities.

As Barack Obama wrote in an article today, "So let’s not excuse violence, or rationalize it, or participate in it." Nobody who has done those things, and they are legion, is exhibiting leadership. There is so much hemming and hawing, so much public hesitancy to denounce mob violence, that it is important to have a president (of either party) who understands that such mob rioting is inexcusable, period. It must be denounced without caveat, qualification, or hedged bet, just as the killing of Floyd much be so denounced. 

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Pondering "justice" and the death of George Floyd.......
« Reply #186 on: June 01, 2020, 11:38:33 PM »
Federal Protective Service officer killed in Oakland shooting during George Floyd protest identified

https://www.foxnews.com/us/federal-law-enforcement-officer-killed-in-oakland-protest-identifiedfbclid=iwar05a4zv7ri7w16k17uubhtp0_gtjrl61tgqivmprnfv-17gzxcwzq8pcu

Lost another battle, in order to "win the war"?   :-[
« Last Edit: June 01, 2020, 11:53:20 PM by Pr. Don Kirchner »
Don Kirchner

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J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: Pondering "justice" and the death of George Floyd.......
« Reply #187 on: June 01, 2020, 11:48:49 PM »
Federal Protective Service officer killed in Oakland shooting during George Floyd protest identified

https://www.foxnews.com/us/federal-law-enforcement-officer-killed-in-oakland-protest-identifiedfbclid=iwar05a4zv7ri7w16k17uu-bhtp0_gtjrl61tgqivmprnfv-17gzxcwzq8pcu

Lost another battle, in order to "win the war"?   :-[

The Officer was African-American aka "Black"

Does his life "matter?"
Greek Orthodox-Ecumenical Patriarchate

Baptized, Confirmed, and Ordained United Methodist.
Served as a Lutheran Pastor October 31, 1989 - October 31, 2014.
Charter member of the first chapter of the Society of the Holy Trinity.

Chrismated Antiochian Orthodox, eve of Mary of Egypt Sunday, A.D. 2015

Charles Austin

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Re: Pondering "justice" and the death of George Floyd.......
« Reply #188 on: June 01, 2020, 11:49:17 PM »
All those links you post to Fox News: if I click on them they come up “bad“ and nothing is on the page. I agree with the bad.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Pondering "justice" and the death of George Floyd.......
« Reply #189 on: June 02, 2020, 12:02:04 AM »
All those links you post to Fox News: if I click on them they come up “bad“ and nothing is on the page. I agree with the bad.

Sorry. Maybe ABC is more palatable. CBS and others didn't post a pic. Wonder why?

https://abc7news.com/george-floyd-protest-oakland-federal-officer-killed-patrick-underwood-in/6221576/
« Last Edit: June 02, 2020, 12:04:06 AM by Pr. Don Kirchner »
Don Kirchner

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Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Pondering "justice" and the death of George Floyd.......
« Reply #190 on: June 02, 2020, 12:19:22 AM »
"Joe Biden said Monday that police -- if facing a threat from a person with "a knife or something" -- should be trained to “shoot ‘em in the leg instead of the heart,” amid five straight days of protest following the death of George Floyd."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-police-training-shoot-em-in-the-leg

The man's senile.
Don Kirchner

"Heaven's OK, but it’s not the end of the world." Jeff Gibbs

peter_speckhard

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Re: Pondering "justice" and the death of George Floyd.......
« Reply #191 on: June 02, 2020, 12:32:47 AM »
I agree any “shoot to wound” policy is absurd and obviously wrong on many levels.

I don’t think the security guard’s death is at all equatable to Floyd’s. A bad police officer is worse than ten criminals. A traitor in your midst is worse than ten enemies strayed against you. One judge on the take is worse than many mafia hit men. Apart from any consideration of race, unauthorized killing by one wielding the authority of the state must never be tolerated even a tiny bit. There will always be crime and the need for police, but corrupt or criminal police officers are a greater danger to society than criminals. Thankfully, they are also far more rare.

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Pondering "justice" and the death of George Floyd.......
« Reply #192 on: June 02, 2020, 12:40:03 AM »
I don’t think the security guard’s death is at all equatable to Floyd’s. A bad police officer is worse than ten criminals. A traitor in your midst is worse than ten enemies strayed against you. One judge on the take is worse than many mafia hit men. Apart from any consideration of race, unauthorized killing by one wielding the authority of the state must never be tolerated even a tiny bit. There will always be crime and the need for police, but corrupt or criminal police officers are a greater danger to society than criminals. Thankfully, they are also far more rare.

Huh? What ever are you talking about?

I'm showing a result of the riots. Nothing more.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2020, 12:42:23 AM by Pr. Don Kirchner »
Don Kirchner

"Heaven's OK, but it’s not the end of the world." Jeff Gibbs

James J Eivan

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Re: Pondering "justice" and the death of George Floyd.......
« Reply #193 on: June 02, 2020, 12:48:04 AM »

<snipped non linked article>
I comment:
Folks here will not be surprised when I find this a most disgusting, cowardly, insensitive, and abusive act even for this president. The entire week-end he is in hiding, picking fights with various people; then he emerges with militaristic threats, even threats that could not be carried out unless laws were broken. To pick up a Bible for a staged phony visit to a church, a visit that had absolutely nothing to do with faith, church or religion is an abomination.
If more chaos and - pray that it not be true - deaths occur, it will not because protestors broke some windows or threw a rock at a heavily armed and armored police officer. It will be because of the attitudes and actions of the president and those who cheer his words, attitudes reflected in the "arrest all protestors" statements flying around even this modest forum. <Emphasis added>
Mercy!
This has to be one of the most partisan party line screeds of the month! ... followed by an unbelievable hate filled screed. Encouraging, condoning, and excusing deadly violence has got to be one of the nastiest posts to this supposedly Christian forum. 
Attitudes can NEVER be used to justify bodily injury, death or malicious destruction of property ... one would think that is the point of the peaceful protesters.  Attitudes do not kill, maim, vandalize and destroy ... hate filled humans do.

As was mentioned on elsewhere earlier, attitudes such as this will surely re-elect the president .. nevertheless should not be considered acceptable discourse in a civilized society.

Lacking any linked source the scare quoted “arrest all protestors” is false and intentionally misleading.


Two sides to every ... here is a more plausible account ...with valid link

Many in the media fell for the calculated & deliberate tactics of professional agitators. They knew the street needed to be cleared before 7pm curfew. But they deliberately stayed to trigger police action & get the story they wanted, that “police attacked peaceful protestors.”
« Last Edit: June 02, 2020, 08:58:51 AM by James »

Charles Austin

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Re: Pondering "justice" and the death of George Floyd.......
« Reply #194 on: June 02, 2020, 05:31:31 AM »
Most people will not know (or care) that there have been more than 100 instances this past week when journalists working as television, print, website and freelance reporters have been targeted by police and pepper-sprayed, clubbed, shot with non-lethal (but often bloody) projectiles, physically assaulted or arrested while covering the protests.
Nothing new about this. But it’s still bad.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.