Author Topic: ELCA prays to "Mother God"  (Read 48150 times)

RandyBosch

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Re: ELCA prays to "Mother God"
« Reply #60 on: May 02, 2020, 08:53:51 PM »
Huh? Queen of Sheba was never a queen of Israel, but of Sheba. She was not married to an Israelite King. Queen Vashti was never a queen of Israel, but of the Persian Empire. She was not married to a King of Israel. She was followed by Esther. Not married to an Israelite King.  Please list where the Bible refers to the wife of an Israelite or Judean king as a queen.

You stated upstream that Israel had no Queens.  Now you've brought in the Queen of Sheba (not part of Israel), the Queen of the Persian Empire (not part of Israel).  Where did you learn that they were married to a King of Israel?  Enquiring minds want to know.  Cite sources.
 

readselerttoo

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Re: ELCA prays to "Mother God"
« Reply #61 on: May 02, 2020, 09:16:46 PM »
We also realize that the ancient uses of these words was in a patriarchal society. Israel did not have queens. They did not have goddesses. We wonder how much of their portrait of God was influenced by their culture.



How fortunate for us that we have such wise theologians who can see through the cultural bias that distorted Israel's portrait of God that they handed down to us in Scripture and filter it out without, of course, introducing any of their own cultural bias in their refined and much improved portrait of God. >:(


They didn't distort it. We have. As I pointed out, one of the pictures handed down to us in Scripture is of God giving birth. I suggest that it's your cultural bias that is unwilling to see and use this female picture of God that has been handed down to us in Scripture.

You are referring to deus absconditus as opposed to Jesus, deus revelatus.   The hidden God cannot be grasped except through the “darkness” of analogy or metaphor.  Jesus is fully God and fully human and graspable.   I’d rather have Jesus.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2020, 09:23:54 PM by readselerttoo »

peter_speckhard

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Re: ELCA prays to "Mother God"
« Reply #62 on: May 02, 2020, 09:20:21 PM »
Huh? Queen of Sheba was never a queen of Israel, but of Sheba. She was not married to an Israelite King. Queen Vashti was never a queen of Israel, but of the Persian Empire. She was not married to a King of Israel. She was followed by Esther. Not married to an Israelite King.  Please list where the Bible refers to the wife of an Israelite or Judean king as a queen.

You stated upstream that Israel had no Queens.  Now you've brought in the Queen of Sheba (not part of Israel), the Queen of the Persian Empire (not part of Israel).  Where did you learn that they were married to a King of Israel?  Enquiring minds want to know.  Cite sources.
 
I think you're just repeating the point Brian made to someone else.

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: ELCA prays to "Mother God"
« Reply #63 on: May 03, 2020, 03:11:45 AM »
Huh? Queen of Sheba was never a queen of Israel, but of Sheba. She was not married to an Israelite King. Queen Vashti was never a queen of Israel, but of the Persian Empire. She was not married to a King of Israel. She was followed by Esther. Not married to an Israelite King.  Please list where the Bible refers to the wife of an Israelite or Judean king as a queen.

You stated upstream that Israel had no Queens.  Now you've brought in the Queen of Sheba (not part of Israel), the Queen of the Persian Empire (not part of Israel).  Where did you learn that they were married to a King of Israel?  Enquiring minds want to know.  Cite sources.
 


I said that they were not married to Israelite kings.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

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Re: ELCA prays to "Mother God"
« Reply #64 on: May 03, 2020, 03:47:08 AM »
We also realize that the ancient uses of these words was in a patriarchal society. Israel did not have queens. They did not have goddesses. We wonder how much of their portrait of God was influenced by their culture.



How fortunate for us that we have such wise theologians who can see through the cultural bias that distorted Israel's portrait of God that they handed down to us in Scripture and filter it out without, of course, introducing any of their own cultural bias in their refined and much improved portrait of God. >:(


They didn't distort it. We have. As I pointed out, one of the pictures handed down to us in Scripture is of God giving birth. I suggest that it's your cultural bias that is unwilling to see and use this female picture of God that has been handed down to us in Scripture.

Brian, given your argument, do you believe it is proper to pray to "Mother Goddess"?

Can you think of anyone reason why one should not?


First of all, God being all-powerful, hears our prayers regardless of who they are addressed to. A question I raised some years ago: Does our God hear the prayers of Muslims? Does our God respond to those prayers? I think he does. Whether I think it's proper or not to pray to Mother Goddess, it doesn't matter. God hears.


Secondly, it's not part of my tradition to use "Mother" or "Goddess" in my prayers. In part because I had a loving father. The use of Father language for God is natural to me. I do not share the experiences of someone who was abused or abandoned by a father - and for whom that word creates bad feelings. Telling them that they shouldn't have those feelings is like telling a converted Jew or Muslim that they can now eat pork and they shouldn't throw up. Our words cannot change what happens in their minds and bodies. They are so conditioned to believe that pork is unclean and should be avoided; that a converted Muslim I met said that when he learned that he had eaten pork two hours after eating it; he still threw up.


Thirdly, 20th century archaeological discoveries show that the goddess Asherah was often part of Israelite worship (at least among the common folks). Her religious statutes were found in homes. There was also found three inscriptions that referred to Yahweh in conjunction with his "asherah". The belief is that some Israelites worship Asherah as a consort to Yahweh. At the same time, there are biblical commands against building images to Asherah (e.g., Deuteronomy 16:21-22). There are numerous passages where statues to Asherah are torn down.


A paragraph in The New Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible about Asherah:


Yet the fact that the biblical writers find it necessary to condemn repeatedly Asherah worship, and the fact that kings Asa, Hezekiah, and Josiah are said to have repeatedly destroyed an asherah icon (King Asa in the 9th cent. BCE; King Hezekiah in the 9th cent. BCE; and King Josiah in the 7th cent. BCE) suggests that whatever the opposition of the bibilical writers to Asherah worship, many if not most in ancient Israel found devotion to Asherah to be an appropriate part of their devotion to Yahweh. The Asherah icon that Josiah destroyed was said to have stood in Yahweh's Temple in Jerusalem. In addition, sacrifice was offered to the goddess there, and support - for women who were in Asherah's service. Thus it appears that, at least in Josiah's day (ca. 640-609 BCE), there were some associated with the Temple in Jerusalem (priests?) who saw Asherah worship as an appropriate part of the worship of Yahweh.


My impression is that there were two approaches, like I've seen with Native Americans. One approach is that there cannot be any syncretism. Native American religious symbols have no place in Christian worship. Another approach is to incorporate Native symbols into Christian worship. Apparently, there were some who were comfortable with incorporate goddess worship into the worship of Yahweh; while others sought to destroy such symbols of goddess worship.


One could use the passages in Deuteronomy, Judges, 1 & 2 Kings to root out goddess worship.


Those who use such language, look at the actual practice of Israelites over many centuries where they combined goddess statues with the worship of Yahweh.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

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Re: ELCA prays to "Mother God"
« Reply #65 on: May 03, 2020, 03:54:27 AM »
What you and the other "brights" in the ELCA should do is openly repudiate Nicene and Chalcedonian orthodoxy and make an attempt to change the ELCA Confession of Faith to reflect your true views. Better yet, you should form a new church, perhaps the Unitarian Universalist Lutheran Church.   You won't do that, however, because you want the cover of orthodoxy.  To openly reject Nicene orthodoxy would be to lose power.  That is something the "brights" in the ELCA will never do, forfeit power.


I don't know where you get your information; but I strongly and repeatedly have affirmed the Confession of Faith that is expressed in the ELCA Constitution. I used that in confirmation and new member classes to talk about what the ELCA believes: what makes us similar to other Christians, and our special documents and what they emphasize.


I was using the Nicene Creed every Sunday, which is the proper creed for the communion liturgy. I got complaints. People wanted the Apostles' Creed. They were more familiar with that. I relented and used the shorter creed on "green" Sundays.


What evidence do you have to claim that I do not believe in the Chalcedonian orthodoxy?
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

jebutler

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Re: ELCA prays to "Mother God"
« Reply #66 on: May 03, 2020, 08:03:14 AM »
We also realize that the ancient uses of these words was in a patriarchal society. Israel did not have queens. They did not have goddesses. We wonder how much of their portrait of God was influenced by their culture.



How fortunate for us that we have such wise theologians who can see through the cultural bias that distorted Israel's portrait of God that they handed down to us in Scripture and filter it out without, of course, introducing any of their own cultural bias in their refined and much improved portrait of God. >:(


They didn't distort it. We have. As I pointed out, one of the pictures handed down to us in Scripture is of God giving birth. I suggest that it's your cultural bias that is unwilling to see and use this female picture of God that has been handed down to us in Scripture.

Brian, given your argument, do you believe it is proper to pray to "Mother Goddess"?

Can you think of anyone reason why one should not?


First of all, God being all-powerful, hears our prayers regardless of who they are addressed to. A question I raised some years ago: Does our God hear the prayers of Muslims? Does our God respond to those prayers? I think he does. Whether I think it's proper or not to pray to Mother Goddess, it doesn't matter. God hears.


Secondly, it's not part of my tradition to use "Mother" or "Goddess" in my prayers. In part because I had a loving father. The use of Father language for God is natural to me. I do not share the experiences of someone who was abused or abandoned by a father - and for whom that word creates bad feelings. Telling them that they shouldn't have those feelings is like telling a converted Jew or Muslim that they can now eat pork and they shouldn't throw up. Our words cannot change what happens in their minds and bodies. They are so conditioned to believe that pork is unclean and should be avoided; that a converted Muslim I met said that when he learned that he had eaten pork two hours after eating it; he still threw up.


Thirdly, 20th century archaeological discoveries show that the goddess Asherah was often part of Israelite worship (at least among the common folks). Her religious statutes were found in homes. There was also found three inscriptions that referred to Yahweh in conjunction with his "asherah". The belief is that some Israelites worship Asherah as a consort to Yahweh. At the same time, there are biblical commands against building images to Asherah (e.g., Deuteronomy 16:21-22). There are numerous passages where statues to Asherah are torn down.


A paragraph in The New Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible about Asherah:


Yet the fact that the biblical writers find it necessary to condemn repeatedly Asherah worship, and the fact that kings Asa, Hezekiah, and Josiah are said to have repeatedly destroyed an asherah icon (King Asa in the 9th cent. BCE; King Hezekiah in the 9th cent. BCE; and King Josiah in the 7th cent. BCE) suggests that whatever the opposition of the bibilical writers to Asherah worship, many if not most in ancient Israel found devotion to Asherah to be an appropriate part of their devotion to Yahweh. The Asherah icon that Josiah destroyed was said to have stood in Yahweh's Temple in Jerusalem. In addition, sacrifice was offered to the goddess there, and support - for women who were in Asherah's service. Thus it appears that, at least in Josiah's day (ca. 640-609 BCE), there were some associated with the Temple in Jerusalem (priests?) who saw Asherah worship as an appropriate part of the worship of Yahweh.


My impression is that there were two approaches, like I've seen with Native Americans. One approach is that there cannot be any syncretism. Native American religious symbols have no place in Christian worship. Another approach is to incorporate Native symbols into Christian worship. Apparently, there were some who were comfortable with incorporate goddess worship into the worship of Yahweh; while others sought to destroy such symbols of goddess worship.


One could use the passages in Deuteronomy, Judges, 1 & 2 Kings to root out goddess worship.


Those who use such language, look at the actual practice of Israelites over many centuries where they combined goddess statues with the worship of Yahweh.

So the answer is, "There is no reason not to do so. Praying to the Goddess is in line with Lutheran theology and practice. Oh, and syncretism is way cool."

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DCharlton

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Re: ELCA prays to "Mother God"
« Reply #67 on: May 03, 2020, 09:58:28 AM »
What you and the other "brights" in the ELCA should do is openly repudiate Nicene and Chalcedonian orthodoxy and make an attempt to change the ELCA Confession of Faith to reflect your true views. Better yet, you should form a new church, perhaps the Unitarian Universalist Lutheran Church.   You won't do that, however, because you want the cover of orthodoxy.  To openly reject Nicene orthodoxy would be to lose power.  That is something the "brights" in the ELCA will never do, forfeit power.

I don't know where you get your information; but I strongly and repeatedly have affirmed the Confession of Faith that is expressed in the ELCA Constitution. I used that in confirmation and new member classes to talk about what the ELCA believes: what makes us similar to other Christians, and our special documents and what they emphasize.

I was using the Nicene Creed every Sunday, which is the proper creed for the communion liturgy. I got complaints. People wanted the Apostles' Creed. They were more familiar with that. I relented and used the shorter creed on "green" Sundays.

What evidence do you have to claim that I do not believe in the Chalcedonian orthodoxy?

What I'm alleging is that the theology you have expressed on this thread is actually Unitarian Modalism.  You seem to be unaware of it, but that is what it is.  Furthermore, you treat the people who defend Nicene orthodoxy as heretics. 
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Dan Fienen

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Re: ELCA prays to "Mother God"
« Reply #68 on: May 03, 2020, 10:50:53 AM »
This was tweeted by the ELCA's official account on April 28:

Mother God, you have fed us with the nourishment of your spiritual food. Raise us up into salvation and rid us of our bitterness, so that we may share the sweetness of your holy word with all the world.



Are you praising or criticizing? Why did you start the discussion?



The Bible uses mother images in terms of God. Why shouldn't we?


Can you draw a distinction between affirming that God is a mother and comparing God to a mother? There have been many images used to describe God in the Bible, does each of those mean that God is that which He is compared to?
Quote
Numbers 11:12-13 —
Did I conceive all these people? Did I give them birth? Why do you tell me to carry them in my arms, as a nurse carries an infant, to the land you promised on oath to their ancestors? Where can I get meat for all these people? They keep wailing to me, 'Give us meat to eat!'

Is this supposed to be an example of the Bible using mother imagery for God? These verses are from Moses and about Moses. Did Moses give birth to the people? But would you say that by using the mother image for Moses, that make Moses a mother?


Quote
Deuteronomy 32:18 —
You deserted the Rock, who bore you;

  you forgot the God who gave you birth.


This passage at least does refer to God. But in addition to talking about God giving birth to the people, it also calls God a rock. Are we to learn from this that our God is really a rock and that a rock can conceive, gestate, go into labor, and give birth?


Perhaps we need to have a remedial lesson on the nature of metaphor.

Quote
Job 38:28-30 —
Does the rain have a father?
  Who fathers the drops of dew?
From whose womb comes the ice?
  Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens
when the waters become hard as stone,

  when the surface of the deep is frozen?
If God is a mother, He is a very strange mother. How many mothers have you encountered who have given birth to ice or cold weather? Could this be referring not to a literal mother, but using a metaphor comparing God's creative actions to that of a mother who gives birth? Or would God have to be female in order for the metaphor to be applicable?


Quote
Psalm 90:2 CEB
Before the mountains were born,
  before you birthed the earth and the inhabited world -

  from forever in the past to forever in the future, you are God.
Again, a very strange mother who can give birth to an entire planet and its population.


Quote
Psalm 131:2 —
But I have calmed myself
  and quieted my ambitions.
I am like a weaned child with its mother;

  like a weaned child I am content.
This Psalm verse does not call God a mother, just comparing how the Psalmist feels, presumably in contemplating and relating to God, to the way a small child would feel with its mother.


Quote
Isaiah 49:15 —
"Can a mother forget the baby at her breast
  and have no compassion on the child she has borne?
Though she may forget,

  I will not forget you!
Again, a comparison is made rather than an affirmation as to the nature of God. God cares for His people even more than a mother cares for her baby. If anything, this passages says that God is not a mother but better than a mother.

Quote
Isaiah 66:9 —
"Do I bring to the moment of birth
  and not give delivery?" says the Lord

"Do I close up the womb

  when I bring to delivery?" says your God.
Again this passage does not in any way compare God to a mother. At most it affirms that God facilitates mothers giving birth.


I have no problem with agreeing that Scripture at times uses mother imagery to describe God, or mother metaphors for certain aspects of how God relates to people. No big deal. But neither does it somehow indicate that God is in some way a mother in His nature or that somehow God is female in His nature. Part of the power of metaphor is the use of incongruous comparisons to highlight the aspect of what is being described and what that is compared to that is similar.


The point where I might find fault with the prayer that occasioned this thread is not an implicit comparison of God to a mother, but that it addresses God as "Mother God." There is a distinct difference between comparing God to a mother, and calling God a mother or addressing Him as mother.


My challenge still stands. Can you point out a place in Scripture where God is addressed as Mother?
« Last Edit: May 03, 2020, 10:57:57 AM by Dan Fienen »
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RandyBosch

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Re: ELCA prays to "Mother God"
« Reply #69 on: May 03, 2020, 12:56:50 PM »
Welcome to Brian's House of Mirrors with its many strange and distorted reflections.  Some of the reflections are "true", even though many of them are reverse views of "true".  Many have fun in the House of Mirrors, and as I do, many are drawn into it searching for a "true" and single reflection, or a way through the maze.  All the best with that.

An acquaintance* suggested that I reflect upon an observation by Samuel Taylor Coleridge:

‘ποίησις’ (poiēsis) means ‘a making, a creation, a production’... ‘μóρφωσις’ (morphōsis) in essence means the same thing: ‘a shaping, a bringing into shape.’ But Coleridge has in mind the New Testament use of the word as ‘semblance’ or ‘outward appearance’, which the KJV translates as ‘form’: ‘An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form [μóρφωσις] of knowledge and of the truth in the law’ [Romans 2:20]; ‘Having a form [μóρφωσις] of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away’ [2 Timothy 3:5]."

 I trust that's clear.  Biblical wise advice!

*…by directing me to a posting in the "Samuel Taylor Bloggeridge" at samueltaylorbloggeridge.blogspot.com/.

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: ELCA prays to "Mother God"
« Reply #70 on: May 03, 2020, 04:31:17 PM »
What you and the other "brights" in the ELCA should do is openly repudiate Nicene and Chalcedonian orthodoxy and make an attempt to change the ELCA Confession of Faith to reflect your true views. Better yet, you should form a new church, perhaps the Unitarian Universalist Lutheran Church.   You won't do that, however, because you want the cover of orthodoxy.  To openly reject Nicene orthodoxy would be to lose power.  That is something the "brights" in the ELCA will never do, forfeit power.

I don't know where you get your information; but I strongly and repeatedly have affirmed the Confession of Faith that is expressed in the ELCA Constitution. I used that in confirmation and new member classes to talk about what the ELCA believes: what makes us similar to other Christians, and our special documents and what they emphasize.

I was using the Nicene Creed every Sunday, which is the proper creed for the communion liturgy. I got complaints. People wanted the Apostles' Creed. They were more familiar with that. I relented and used the shorter creed on "green" Sundays.

What evidence do you have to claim that I do not believe in the Chalcedonian orthodoxy?

What I'm alleging is that the theology you have expressed on this thread is actually Unitarian Modalism.  You seem to be unaware of it, but that is what it is.  Furthermore, you treat the people who defend Nicene orthodoxy as heretics.


Yes, you're alleging it without any evidence. I believe in the Trinity: one God in three persons. We should not confuse the persons - mesh them into each other. The Father is not the Son. The Son is not the Spirit. Father, Son, and Spirit are one God. I think to say that the Spirit who came at Pentecost is the same as the Son is wrong. Thus, I see a difference between Matthew's ending with Jesus' promise to be with the disciples aways; and Luke and John's ending that have Jesus leaving (ascended in Luke/Acts) so that the Spirit can come. I will state that God is with us always. Jesus is God. The Spirit is God. The divine presence is the same. The person of that presence is different.


What is heretical about that?
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: ELCA prays to "Mother God"
« Reply #71 on: May 03, 2020, 04:38:27 PM »
We also realize that the ancient uses of these words was in a patriarchal society. Israel did not have queens. They did not have goddesses. We wonder how much of their portrait of God was influenced by their culture.



How fortunate for us that we have such wise theologians who can see through the cultural bias that distorted Israel's portrait of God that they handed down to us in Scripture and filter it out without, of course, introducing any of their own cultural bias in their refined and much improved portrait of God. >:(


They didn't distort it. We have. As I pointed out, one of the pictures handed down to us in Scripture is of God giving birth. I suggest that it's your cultural bias that is unwilling to see and use this female picture of God that has been handed down to us in Scripture.

Brian, given your argument, do you believe it is proper to pray to "Mother Goddess"?

Can you think of anyone reason why one should not?


First of all, God being all-powerful, hears our prayers regardless of who they are addressed to. A question I raised some years ago: Does our God hear the prayers of Muslims? Does our God respond to those prayers? I think he does. Whether I think it's proper or not to pray to Mother Goddess, it doesn't matter. God hears.


Secondly, it's not part of my tradition to use "Mother" or "Goddess" in my prayers. In part because I had a loving father. The use of Father language for God is natural to me. I do not share the experiences of someone who was abused or abandoned by a father - and for whom that word creates bad feelings. Telling them that they shouldn't have those feelings is like telling a converted Jew or Muslim that they can now eat pork and they shouldn't throw up. Our words cannot change what happens in their minds and bodies. They are so conditioned to believe that pork is unclean and should be avoided; that a converted Muslim I met said that when he learned that he had eaten pork two hours after eating it; he still threw up.


Thirdly, 20th century archaeological discoveries show that the goddess Asherah was often part of Israelite worship (at least among the common folks). Her religious statutes were found in homes. There was also found three inscriptions that referred to Yahweh in conjunction with his "asherah". The belief is that some Israelites worship Asherah as a consort to Yahweh. At the same time, there are biblical commands against building images to Asherah (e.g., Deuteronomy 16:21-22). There are numerous passages where statues to Asherah are torn down.


A paragraph in The New Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible about Asherah:


Yet the fact that the biblical writers find it necessary to condemn repeatedly Asherah worship, and the fact that kings Asa, Hezekiah, and Josiah are said to have repeatedly destroyed an asherah icon (King Asa in the 9th cent. BCE; King Hezekiah in the 9th cent. BCE; and King Josiah in the 7th cent. BCE) suggests that whatever the opposition of the bibilical writers to Asherah worship, many if not most in ancient Israel found devotion to Asherah to be an appropriate part of their devotion to Yahweh. The Asherah icon that Josiah destroyed was said to have stood in Yahweh's Temple in Jerusalem. In addition, sacrifice was offered to the goddess there, and support - for women who were in Asherah's service. Thus it appears that, at least in Josiah's day (ca. 640-609 BCE), there were some associated with the Temple in Jerusalem (priests?) who saw Asherah worship as an appropriate part of the worship of Yahweh.


My impression is that there were two approaches, like I've seen with Native Americans. One approach is that there cannot be any syncretism. Native American religious symbols have no place in Christian worship. Another approach is to incorporate Native symbols into Christian worship. Apparently, there were some who were comfortable with incorporate goddess worship into the worship of Yahweh; while others sought to destroy such symbols of goddess worship.


One could use the passages in Deuteronomy, Judges, 1 & 2 Kings to root out goddess worship.


Those who use such language, look at the actual practice of Israelites over many centuries where they combined goddess statues with the worship of Yahweh.

So the answer is, "There is no reason not to do so. Praying to the Goddess is in line with Lutheran theology and practice. Oh, and syncretism is way cool."

There are no words.


Wrong answer. Like with Paul's advice about food sacrificed to idols; there will be some who find nothing wrong with it because idols don't exist; and others whose conscience will not let them participate in the pagan practice. Likewise, there are some who will use goddess language in reference to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; the God who is known as the Trinity. For them, our God is big enough to be expressed in such terms. For others, their conscience will not let them participate in what is seen as pagan language and practices.


Yes, there are words. Do you want to place those who have been freed from the Law by Jesus back under the Law? "You can't do that!"


I also disagree somewhat with the title of this thread. At best, the ELCA allowed a prayer to "Mother God." There is a freedom in our denomination that isn't always found in other denominations. When language like that showed up in a petition, I usually changed it, e.g., "God, who loves us like a mother, …." I have the freedom to do that, just as others have the freedom to use that language.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2020, 04:42:23 PM by Brian Stoffregen »
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Re: ELCA prays to "Mother God"
« Reply #72 on: May 03, 2020, 04:50:04 PM »
"Mother God" is not the same God that I worship.  "Mother God" is not the God of the Bible.  "Mother God" is not the Triune God of Christianity.  It is another god, a false god.

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Re: ELCA prays to "Mother God"
« Reply #73 on: May 03, 2020, 05:34:22 PM »
I would not use “Mother God,” myself, Pastor Bohler, as I find it odd in most circles.
But if someone or several someones in the ELCA does, finding it not odd in their circles, I am not calling out the Inquisition.
You?
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Heading home from Sioux City after three days and a reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

jebutler

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Re: ELCA prays to "Mother God"
« Reply #74 on: May 03, 2020, 05:40:04 PM »
I would not use “Mother God,” myself, Pastor Bohler, as I find it odd in most circles.
But if someone or several someones in the ELCA does, finding it not odd in their circles, I am not calling out the Inquisition.
You?

Well, Charlotte, if someone in the ELCA does it, I'm not calling out the inquisition. Not my church. It's Her Church.

But if a pastor or church worker in the LCMS did it, I do everything I could to get the false teacher off our roster. That's a promise, Chuck.
The truth we preach is not an abstract thing. The truth is a Person. The goodness we preach is not an ideal quality. The goodness is Someone who is good. The love we preach is God himself in Christ. --H. Grady Davis