Author Topic: How should one understand this?  (Read 1726 times)

Richard Johnson

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How should one understand this?
« on: April 07, 2020, 10:21:36 PM »
I'm not entirely sure what to make of this. It is from our bishop, and he offers it "to use as a part of your Easter Sunday online worship." What do you think? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_ggWMPN7i8  He's also planning to offer a sermon for Easter 2, to give pastors "a well deserved break in the days following Easter Sunday." I appreciate the thought, but um . . .
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James_Gale

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Re: How should one understand this?
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2020, 10:33:41 PM »
Is that a California mitre on the bishop's head?  It's festive, I guess, but a little distracting.


I couldn't get all the way through the Grinch story.  It seemed to me from what I did hear that the story perhaps would be good for Sunday school.  I don't think that I'd use it as part of worship.

J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: How should one understand this?
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2020, 10:36:51 PM »
I'm not entirely sure what to make of this. It is from our bishop, and he offers it "to use as a part of your Easter Sunday online worship." What do you think? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_ggWMPN7i8  He's also planning to offer a sermon for Easter 2, to give pastors "a well deserved break in the days following Easter Sunday." I appreciate the thought, but um . . .

You could read the Paschal Homily of St. John Chrysostom instead.

Quote
The Paschal Sermon of St. John Chrysostom
Saint John Chrysostom, Archbishop of Constantinople
[/b]

The Catechetical Sermon of St. John Chrysostom is read during Matins of Pascha
.

If any man be devout and love God, let him enjoy this fair and radiant triumphal feast. If any man be a wise servant, let him rejoicing enter into the joy of his Lord. If any have labored long in fasting, let him now receive his recompense. If any have wrought from the first hour, let him today receive his just reward. If any have come at the third hour, let him with thankfulness keep the feast. If any have arrived at the sixth hour, let him have no misgivings; because he shall in nowise be deprived therefor. If any have delayed until the ninth hour, let him draw near, fearing nothing. If any have tarried even until the eleventh hour, let him, also, be not alarmed at his tardiness; for the Lord, who is jealous of his honor, will accept the last even as the first; he gives rest unto him who comes at the eleventh hour, even as unto him who has wrought from the first hour.

And he shows mercy upon the last, and cares for the first; and to the one he gives, and upon the other he bestows gifts. And he both accepts the deeds, and welcomes the intention, and honors the acts and praises the offering. Wherefore, enter you all into the joy of your Lord; and receive your reward, both the first, and likewise the second.

You rich and poor together, hold high festival. You sober and you heedless, honor the day. Rejoice today, both you who have fasted and you who have disregarded the fast. The table is full-laden; feast ye all sumptuously. The calf is fatted; let no one go hungry away.

Enjoy ye all the feast of faith: Receive ye all the riches of loving-kindness. let no one bewail his poverty, for the universal kingdom has been revealed.

Let no one weep for his iniquities, for pardon has shown forth from the grave.

Let no one fear death, for the Savior's death has set us free.

He that was held prisoner of it has annihilated it. By descending into Hell, He made Hell captive. He embittered it when it tasted of His flesh. And Isaiah, foretelling this, did cry: Hell, said he, was embittered, when it encountered Thee in the lower regions.
It was embittered, for it was abolished.
It was embittered, for it was mocked.
It was embittered, for it was slain. It was embittered, for it was overthrown. It was embittered, for it was fettered in chains.
It took a body, and met God face to face.
It took earth, and encountered Heaven.
It took that which was seen, and fell upon the unseen.
O Death, where is your sting?
O Hell, where is your victory?
Christ is risen, and you are overthrown.
Christ is risen, and the demons are fallen.
Christ is risen, and the angels rejoice.
Christ is risen, and life reigns.
Christ is risen, and not one dead remains in the grave.
For Christ, being risen from the dead,
   is become the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep.
To Him be glory and dominion unto ages of ages.

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Jeremy Loesch

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Re: How should one understand this?
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2020, 10:54:36 PM »
I'm with James in that it could be useful, but I wouldn't use it in a worship setting.  I do think he did a nice job with the rhyming and the story, but it doesn't seem to lend itself to worship. 

The thing that distracted me was that the book cover was from "Oh the places you'll go."  I've read the Grinch enough to know that wasn't the cover, so unfortunately, that's all I saw.   ;D

Jeremy

And I appreciate the text of the Chrysostom sermon. 
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Brian Stoffregen

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Re: How should one understand this?
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2020, 02:49:14 AM »
The authority and power of our preaching comes from the Scriptures that form the basis of our proclamation. I don’t see that either of these is centered on a biblical text, just the authors’ creative writing abilities.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Jeremy Loesch

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Re: How should one understand this?
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2020, 09:08:00 AM »
Brian, you don't see that the Chrysostom sermon is based on Biblical texts?

Jeremy
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J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: How should one understand this?
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2020, 10:59:10 AM »
Brian, you don't see that the Chrysostom sermon is based on Biblical texts?

Jeremy

The Chrysostom sermon is a veritable tapestry of Biblical texts:  The parable of the laborers in the vineyard; the parable of the Prodigal son; the great banquet of Isaiah 25; and the Resurrection proclamations of the Pauline Epistles.

Just for starters.

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Jeremy Loesch

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Re: How should one understand this?
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2020, 11:06:31 AM »
In Brian's defense, Isaiah and the four gospels are all non-canonical and highly suspect.   ;)

Jeremy
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Richard Johnson

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Re: How should one understand this?
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2020, 01:37:19 PM »
One thing that disturbed me about the "children's sermon" is that much of it was in the nature of "Easter is about joy and hope and love." Jesus finally made an appearance near the end, but one really had to wait for it. Seems to me to miss the point.
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Brian Stoffregen

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Re: How should one understand this?
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2020, 02:08:07 PM »
Brian, you don't see that the Chrysostom sermon is based on Biblical texts?

Jeremy

The Chrysostom sermon is a veritable tapestry of Biblical texts:  The parable of the laborers in the vineyard; the parable of the Prodigal son; the great banquet of Isaiah 25; and the Resurrection proclamations of the Pauline Epistles.

Just for starters.


Yes, there are a plethora of biblical references in Chrysostom. One could say that the other thing also makes references to biblical texts, too. My comment was about "a biblical text." In our Sunday bulletins, I always listed my sermon title and the text (usually the Gospel of the day) that it was based on. Neither of these was an exposition of a biblical text. They are more like a theological presentation that uses biblical texts to support the theology.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Jeremy Loesch

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Re: How should one understand this?
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2020, 03:16:02 PM »
And how many times do preachers say, "This is my text." and then never talk about the text? I'd rather they just start preaching and not mention their text if that is what they are going to do.

And yes, Richard, I noticed that as well. Preaching about Easter and preaching Easter are not the same thing.

Jeremy
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Brian Stoffregen

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Re: How should one understand this?
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2020, 03:24:15 PM »
And how many times do preachers say, "This is my text." and then never talk about the text? I'd rather they just start preaching and not mention their text if that is what they are going to do.

And yes, Richard, I noticed that as well. Preaching about Easter and preaching Easter are not the same thing.


Could we say the same thing about preaching about Jesus or preaching about God?
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Jeremy Loesch

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Re: How should one understand this?
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2020, 08:34:25 PM »
Of course, that's where I took the phrase. An LCMS professor was discussing homiletics and said, "Preaching the Gospel and preaching about the Gospel are not the same thing." I forget who said it.

Jeremy
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J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: How should one understand this?
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2020, 08:56:41 PM »
And how many times do preachers say, "This is my text." and then never talk about the text?

When that happens it is appropriate for parishioners at the church door to say, "that was a good text"   :D
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Brian Stoffregen

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Re: How should one understand this?
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2020, 04:20:11 PM »
And how many times do preachers say, "This is my text." and then never talk about the text?

When that happens it is appropriate for parishioners at the church door to say, "that was a good text"   :D


I think it was in a book on preaching that the author presented this short dialogue:


Member: "That was a good sermon, pastor."
Pastor: "That remains to be seen."
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]