Life in Quarantine: One man's reflections

[Donald_Kirchner]

What I need now (selfishly, I am told  ) is a fuller dose of the blessings that God has given the world, human companionship, art, literature, the wonders of the earth.

No, you do not, Charles. That's what you selfishly think that you need. Learn from a guy who had a few more hardships than you being bored in your fancy facility wanting to eat even fancier food and travel to exotic places. And don't suggest to us that you're looking for Christ in those things. To quote you, "That dog won't hunt."

"So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. But he said to me, 'My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.' Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong." [2 Cor 12:7-10]

[James J Eivan]

Rev Austin's "as with the flip remarks of some current heads of state" tragically indicateso how incapable he is of controlling his angst .. and unfortunately his preoccupation with blaming his life's issues on politics    Now back to the thread topic.

[Dave Benke]

Rev Austin's "as with the flip remarks of some current heads of state" tragically indicateso how incapable he is of controlling his angst .. and unfortunately his preoccupation with blaming his life's issues on politics    Now back to the thread topic.

The thread topic is "Life in Quarantine:  One man's reflections," initiated and authored by Charles Austin.  His reflections ARE the thread topic. 

Dave Benke

[pastorg1@aol.com]

They are the topic of every thread.

[James J Eivan]

Rev Austin's "as with the flip remarks of some current heads of state" tragically indicateso how incapable he is of controlling his angst .. and unfortunately his preoccupation with blaming his life's issues on politics    Now back to the thread topic.

The thread topic is "Life in Quarantine:  One man's reflections," initiated and authored by Charles Austin.  His reflections ARE the thread topic. 

Dave Benke

I beg to differ ... had others introduced politics into this thread that has been free from politics ... and refreshingly politically neutral, there is little doubt in that a similar statement would have been rightfully posted by Rev Austin.  There is ample opportunity for political discourse elsewhere on the numerous political threads.

But your compulsion to agree/defend Rev Austin (who is fully capable of defending himself) has been privately noted on numerous occasions.

Those who think that “politics” have no bearing on the ills we and our neighbors face are just stupid. <emphasis added>

It’s tragic that that a retired ‘professional’ journalist is so intolerant that he must resort to name calling and personal attacks on statements/opinions that are not in lock step with his.



    Now back to the thread topic.

[DeHall1]

Unbelievable.
Some remain tone deaf.
Those who think that “politics” have no bearing on the ills we and our neighbors face are just stupid.
Off, I am, to other matters.

Just keep lamenting your dire circumstances.....

[Dan Fienen]

This recent conversation ably illustrates the futility of effectively ministering to people experiencing a difficult time in their life via the internet, especially in an open forum. Directing people to look to Jesus for joy, hope, and healing is the ultimate answer, but it is usually not as simply as just laying that on them and they should just perk right up and be fine. It usually just doesn't work that way. In the middle of grief or discontent people usually have a great many thoughts and emotions to work through before they can resolve to calm confidence in Jesus. While I do not take Kubler Ross and her stages of grief as absolute gospel, she has made some very good observations. Dealing with loss and privation of any sort is a process and there are no short cuts.


Sometimes people do need to be told to get over themselves, quit their belly aching, recognize that others have it much worse than themselves, and get on with things.  But that is a conclusion that should only be reached after much listening to the person and helping them explore their experience. A post or even several posts on the internet is hardly adequate.


I fear that sometimes a too quick and glib assurance that Jesus will take care of everything ends up coming off less of caring ministry than an unwillingness to listen to and help the person deal with their pain. "Take these two Bible passages and get out of my face!"

[Brian Stoffregen]

Unbelievable.
Some remain tone deaf.
Those who think that “politics” have no bearing on the ills we and our neighbors face are just stupid.
Off, I am, to other matters.

Just keep lamenting your dire circumstances.....

So, you would have kept Lamentations out of the Bible? It was wrong for the people to express their frustrations at God for what was happening to Jerusalem?


Surprisingly, perhaps, there's not a book in the Bible called Joy!

[Brian Stoffregen]

This recent conversation ably illustrates the futility of effectively ministering to people experiencing a difficult time in their life via the internet, especially in an open forum. Directing people to look to Jesus for joy, hope, and healing is the ultimate answer, but it is usually not as simply as just laying that on them and they should just perk right up and be fine. It usually just doesn't work that way. In the middle of grief or discontent people usually have a great many thoughts and emotions to work through before they can resolve to calm confidence in Jesus. While I do not take Kubler Ross and her stages of grief as absolute gospel, she has made some very good observations. Dealing with loss and privation of any sort is a process and there are no short cuts.


Sometimes people do need to be told to get over themselves, quit their belly aching, recognize that others have it much worse than themselves, and get on with things.  But that is a conclusion that should only be reached after much listening to the person and helping them explore their experience. A post or even several posts on the internet is hardly adequate.


I fear that sometimes a too quick and glib assurance that Jesus will take care of everything ends up coming off less of caring ministry than an unwillingness to listen to and help the person deal with their pain. "Take these two Bible passages and get out of my face!"

Or, "Take your God and get out of my face."


The goodness that God brings through suffering nearly always comes with hindsight - getting far enough removed from the painful situation that one can look back on it more objectively and see God's presence through the storm.


This can mean that pastoral care involves walking in the dark places with the people - not trying to save them from the darkness. It is often our own anxieties and reluctance to enter into such pain that makes us want to help them out of it; rather than go through it with them. Jesus' resurrection meant going through suffering and death (and hell) before rising up on the other side. It wasn't about avoiding it, nor was it a quick movement from suffering, death to resurrection. There was six hours of suffering on the cross according to Mark (15:25 crucified at the third hour (9:00); 15:33 darkness at the sixth hour (noon); and 15:34 death at the ninth hour (3:00); and three days of death.

[DeHall1]

Unbelievable.
Some remain tone deaf.
Those who think that “politics” have no bearing on the ills we and our neighbors face are just stupid.
Off, I am, to other matters.

Just keep lamenting your dire circumstances.....

So, you would have kept Lamentations out of the Bible? It was wrong for the people to express their frustrations at God for what was happening to Jerusalem?


Surprisingly, perhaps, there's not a book in the Bible called Joy!

Those who think that I “would have kept Lamentations out of the Bible” are just stupid.

[Dave Benke]

They are the topic of every thread.

All threads, like rivers, lead to the Karmic Ocean:

Flying flowers in the karmic ocean, bold mood and wanton interest
Seek dream in the red tower, unfeeling and sad
Rainbow crosses the sea, phoenixes soar and dance
Camel bells sound, desert blows sand         

by Luo Zhihai

I find the poem flows more smoothly in Mandarin, but again, the thread-rivers meander no matter their linguistic course, to the Karmic Ocean.

Dave Benke

[readselerttoo]

You all have convinced me.  I take back my telling Rev. Austin to look to Christ for his joy.  Instead, I will just let him sit there in his gilded cage, bemoaning his sorry existence and cursing.  Because somehow, in a way I do not really get, pointing him to Christ is to deny his suffering.  Because that moaning and cursing is what he needs now, apparently even more than he needs Christ.  Because that leaving a person to moan and curse is what Psalm 88 insists be done, and I certainly do not want to censor it or diminish or correct it.

"If for this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are of all most to be pitied.  But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead..."  from 1 Cor. 15.

[Dan Fienen]

I am reminded of Psalm 23:4 (ESV) "⁴ Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me." Doesn't say that His rod and staff removes us from the valley, but that they comfort us as we walk dark roads.
 

[peter_speckhard]

Todd Peperkorn has come up in another thread. He wrote a book called (I think) "I Trust When Dark My Road" about his personal struggles and bouts with extreme depression. Could be a good resource for people feeling the gloom and human cost of the shut down.

[Keith Falk]

Todd Peperkorn has come up in another thread. He wrote a book called (I think) "I Trust When Dark My Road" about his personal struggles and bouts with extreme depression. Could be a good resource for people feeling the gloom and human cost of the shut down.

It can be downloaded for free here from the LCMS website in a .pdf format.