Author Topic: Worship can be livestreamed, but communion can't?  (Read 57990 times)

Richard Johnson

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Re: Worship can be livestreamed, but communion can't?
« Reply #165 on: March 27, 2020, 09:17:05 PM »
I think it would be meet, right and salutary for the ECLA to take a church-wide survey of admission practice with regard to the Eucharist according to the ELCA guidelines as they've been presented.  Let's say 90% of the congregations/pastors follow them.  At least you'd know that and it would indicate the guidelines are working.  If it's 42%, then the guidelines are toast.

Dave Benke

I agree. But I learned a couple of years back that the ELCA leadership doesn't even have a clue how many congregations offer the Eucharist weekly. They could tell you, however, how many of them use Augsburg Fortress VBS materials.
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Richard Johnson

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Re: Worship can be livestreamed, but communion can't?
« Reply #166 on: March 27, 2020, 09:19:33 PM »

My last conference, where I did go to conference meeting, I would guess all ten congregations followed the guidelines. (Richard Johnson was in the same conference and has been then longer than I was. He can offer his opinion.)

It's been a very long time since you were here, Brian.

I haven't been to a conference meeting since I retired (I've thought about going once or twice, but never quite found a reason to think it was good time management to drive 30 minutes for it; well, the 30 minute drive might be better than the two hour meeting, actually, judging from the usual stated agenda). What I know about communion practices comes from attending the churches on occasion.
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Dan Fienen

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Re: Worship can be livestreamed, but communion can't?
« Reply #167 on: March 27, 2020, 09:53:32 PM »
I think it would be meet, right and salutary for the ECLA to take a church-wide survey of admission practice with regard to the Eucharist according to the ELCA guidelines as they've been presented.  Let's say 90% of the congregations/pastors follow them.  At least you'd know that and it would indicate the guidelines are working.  If it's 42%, then the guidelines are toast.

Dave Benke

I agree. But I learned a couple of years back that the ELCA leadership doesn't even have a clue how many congregations offer the Eucharist weekly. They could tell you, however, how many of them use Augsburg Fortress VBS materials.

Whatever is really important.
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J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: Worship can be livestreamed, but communion can't?
« Reply #168 on: March 27, 2020, 11:11:05 PM »
I think it would be meet, right and salutary for the ECLA to take a church-wide survey of admission practice with regard to the Eucharist according to the ELCA guidelines as they've been presented.  Let's say 90% of the congregations/pastors follow them.  At least you'd know that and it would indicate the guidelines are working.  If it's 42%, then the guidelines are toast.

Dave Benke

I agree. But I learned a couple of years back that the ELCA leadership doesn't even have a clue how many congregations offer the Eucharist weekly. They could tell you, however, how many of them use Augsburg Fortress VBS materials.

Whatever is really important.

I am now 10 years removed from the ELCA, but somewhere along the line (1990-2009) I vaguely recall one annual parochial report form asking about Communion practices...it may have been on common cup vs. pouring chalice vs. individual prefilled cups; but it definitely was not about frequency of celebration.
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Steven Tibbetts

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ELCA Communion Frequency
« Reply #169 on: March 28, 2020, 01:33:40 PM »

I agree. But I learned a couple of years back that the ELCA leadership doesn't even have a clue how many congregations offer the Eucharist weekly. They could tell you, however, how many of them use Augsburg Fortress VBS materials.

From the ELCA Annual Congregation Report for the year ending December 31, 2006:

40.  How often is Holy Communion celebrated as part of the Sunday worship service?  If you have more than one service, report for the one that has the largest average attendance.  Do not report weekday or Saturday communion services  (Check only one).
      _  Weekly
      _  Twice a month
      _  Twice a month plus festivals
      _  Monthly
      _  Monthly plus festivals
      _  Quarterly
      _  Other __________________

          If Holy Communion is NOT celebrated weekly at the principal worship service of
          this congregation is there another liturgy at which communion is offered weekly?
          _  Yes      _  No       _  Do not know

    When you distribute the cup, do you offer (Check all that apply):
     _  Wine            _  Juice          _  De-alcoholized wine



Granted, "not having a clue" is not necessarily equivalent to "having no relevant data."

Pax, Steven+
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Dave Benke

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Re: ELCA Communion Frequency
« Reply #170 on: March 28, 2020, 03:08:14 PM »

I agree. But I learned a couple of years back that the ELCA leadership doesn't even have a clue how many congregations offer the Eucharist weekly. They could tell you, however, how many of them use Augsburg Fortress VBS materials.

From the ELCA Annual Congregation Report for the year ending December 31, 2006:

40.  How often is Holy Communion celebrated as part of the Sunday worship service?  If you have more than one service, report for the one that has the largest average attendance.  Do not report weekday or Saturday communion services  (Check only one).
      _  Weekly
      _  Twice a month
      _  Twice a month plus festivals
      _  Monthly
      _  Monthly plus festivals
      _  Quarterly
      _  Other __________________

          If Holy Communion is NOT celebrated weekly at the principal worship service of
          this congregation is there another liturgy at which communion is offered weekly?
          _  Yes      _  No       _  Do not know

    When you distribute the cup, do you offer (Check all that apply):
     _  Wine            _  Juice          _  De-alcoholized wine



Granted, "not having a clue" is not necessarily equivalent to "having no relevant data."

Pax, Steven+

That's really a pretty good start, although now fourteen years old.  Another question or two on reception eligibility would be interesting additions.  Designing those questions would be a treat.

Dave Benke

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Re: Worship can be livestreamed, but communion can't?
« Reply #171 on: March 28, 2020, 03:22:10 PM »
Did anyone ever publish the results of that ELCA survey? I wonder if the LCMS has ever done anything like that; it would be interesting.

Peace, JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

Richard Johnson

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Re: ELCA Communion Frequency
« Reply #172 on: March 28, 2020, 04:01:25 PM »

I agree. But I learned a couple of years back that the ELCA leadership doesn't even have a clue how many congregations offer the Eucharist weekly. They could tell you, however, how many of them use Augsburg Fortress VBS materials.

From the ELCA Annual Congregation Report for the year ending December 31, 2006:

40.  How often is Holy Communion celebrated as part of the Sunday worship service?  If you have more than one service, report for the one that has the largest average attendance.  Do not report weekday or Saturday communion services  (Check only one).
      _  Weekly
      _  Twice a month
      _  Twice a month plus festivals
      _  Monthly
      _  Monthly plus festivals
      _  Quarterly
      _  Other __________________

          If Holy Communion is NOT celebrated weekly at the principal worship service of
          this congregation is there another liturgy at which communion is offered weekly?
          _  Yes      _  No       _  Do not know

    When you distribute the cup, do you offer (Check all that apply):
     _  Wine            _  Juice          _  De-alcoholized wine



Granted, "not having a clue" is not necessarily equivalent to "having no relevant data."

Pax, Steven+

I wonder if those statistics were ever published anywhere? Oh, and then those statistics would now be 14 years old! Then there's the question of whether the current staff people even know such old statistics exist. When I asked a couple of years ago, the answer was not "We have statistics, but they are 10 years old" but "No, we don't have any statistics on that."
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: Worship can be livestreamed, but communion can't?
« Reply #173 on: March 28, 2020, 04:09:47 PM »
I am thankful to know that my memory has not faded.

On that report I responded "weekly" and "juice."
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Chuck

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Re: ELCA Communion Frequency
« Reply #174 on: March 28, 2020, 06:02:38 PM »
I wonder if those statistics were ever published anywhere? Oh, and then those statistics would now be 14 years old! Then there's the question of whether the current staff people even know such old statistics exist. When I asked a couple of years ago, the answer was not "We have statistics, but they are 10 years old" but "No, we don't have any statistics on that."
Pg. 66 of the Secretary's Report
« Last Edit: March 28, 2020, 06:08:30 PM by Chuck »
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Richard Johnson

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Re: Worship can be livestreamed, but communion can't?
« Reply #175 on: March 28, 2020, 06:40:22 PM »
Oh my gosh, Chuck, you still have that stuff around? You need to do some pruning, my friend!  ;D

But interesting that 14 years ago not quite 50% of ELCA churches offered the Eucharist weekly at the principle service. I imagine we've made some progress since then, but if this really mattered to the powers that be, we'd have more recent statistics and there would be a continuing but gentle urging in that direction.
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

Chuck

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Re: Worship can be livestreamed, but communion can't?
« Reply #176 on: March 28, 2020, 07:14:06 PM »
Oh my gosh, Chuck, you still have that stuff around? You need to do some pruning, my friend!  ;D

But interesting that 14 years ago not quite 50% of ELCA churches offered the Eucharist weekly at the principle service. I imagine we've made some progress since then, but if this really mattered to the powers that be, we'd have more recent statistics and there would be a continuing but gentle urging in that direction.
Heh...I have every year since 1988. I'm a stats nut, you know.
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Jeremy Loesch

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Re: Worship can be livestreamed, but communion can't?
« Reply #177 on: March 28, 2020, 10:30:01 PM »
Bill Tucker, lead pastor at Concordia San Antonio (LCMS), is planning to celebrate the Lord's Supper this weekend over the internet.  He has encouraged the members of the congregation to provide their own bread and wine or grape juice, make a special home altar, and then when it is time for the Lord's Supper to be celebrated, Pastor Tucker will speak the Words of Institution and the people at their homes will repeat the words after him.  He also has provided a recipe for people to make unleavened bread if they wish.  He says that he has consulted with his church council and the Texas District president and has their approval, permission. 

I'd post a link to his 2:48 video message, but I have a heresy filter on my computer that won't allow such stuff to be viewed. 

Jeremy
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Jeremy Loesch

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Re: Worship can be livestreamed, but communion can't?
« Reply #178 on: March 28, 2020, 10:49:54 PM »
Tim Bayer, lead pastor at Our Savior in Washington State (LCMS) is doing the same thing as Concordia, San Antonio.  Get the elements, repeat the Words of Institution after the pastor says them, etc.  His video was 1:47 in length.  It was as if they were using talking points.  Pastor Bayer didn't implicate his DP in this, just the church council and the other pastors on staff.  They are all very excited, according to the video. 

This makes two congregations that will do...something.  I don't know what it is, but it won't be Holy Communion.  Maybe everything old is new again, as we return to Corinth?

Jeremy
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Re: Worship can be livestreamed, but communion can't?
« Reply #179 on: March 29, 2020, 12:20:11 AM »
Bill Tucker, lead pastor at Concordia San Antonio (LCMS), is planning to celebrate the Lord's Supper this weekend over the internet.  He has encouraged the members of the congregation to provide their own bread and wine or grape juice, make a special home altar, and then when it is time for the Lord's Supper to be celebrated, Pastor Tucker will speak the Words of Institution and the people at their homes will repeat the words after him.  He also has provided a recipe for people to make unleavened bread if they wish.  He says that he has consulted with his church council and the Texas District president and has their approval, permission. 

I'd post a link to his 2:48 video message, but I have a heresy filter on my computer that won't allow such stuff to be viewed. 

Jeremy

https://www.concordia.cc/home

Whatís so heretical about it?