Author Topic: Worship can be livestreamed, but communion can't?  (Read 58001 times)

Rob Morris

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Re: Worship can be livestreamed, but communion can't?
« Reply #525 on: April 18, 2020, 11:45:00 AM »
Is there some essential difference between live streaming and recording  the service to post the link to the videos for viewing anytime?
Is there any difference between watching a live broadcast of your favorite sports team vs. watching a recording of the same game/match? In some ways, no: it is literally the same action you are watching. But, in some ineffable way, it is not the same.

Participating in/viewing a worship service online while separated by physical space is already one degree of removal. When it is separated by actual time, this adds another degree of removal. However, for technical reasons like those you list, those degrees of removal may be unavoidable. It does create some interesting questions regarding the corporate confession and absolution.

One thing I have heard - people appreciate having the videos available on a platform that can be watched on their TVs, as it is easier for the whole family to gather and see well. Vimeo is only able to stream to a computer or phone/tablet... This is not a criticism, just something some friends mentioned to me. You may want to look into posting to YouTube as well, which is free. You can also use the Premier setting to have the video "go live" at a particular time, so the whole congregation can view at the same time, which does seem to add to the connected-ness in the separation. Just a thought...

RandyBosch

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Re: Worship can be livestreamed, but communion can't?
« Reply #526 on: April 18, 2020, 12:47:49 PM »
Can you deliver a promise from God over the telephone?  Different thing.

Not quibbling with your insights on these matters, just off on a Saturday tangent pondering,

"Can you deliver a promise from God using a written letter?  A printed book?  An internet message? By singing a hymn based upon Scripture? Verbally via a layperson?"

Yes.  Yes.  Yes.  Yes.  Yes. 

I notice you didn't include Tweet/Twitter.  Was that excluded on purpose or part of "an internet message"?  The twitterverse I'm in because of very infrequent use is populated due to the way Twitter seeks to assist me by people who are politically rabid on either edge.  Who's done the research on how these bots or whatever dictate what we're fed to read?  They definitely know how old I am.  Bowel movement cures every hour on the hour.

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Agreed, thank you …. on the Yes x 5 (not on your age or personal habits...).  I recently departed Twitter for the xth and probably final time, having received their new "harvest everything possible about you to sell ads to make Jack another trillion" order.  Bye Bye.

Coach-Rev

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Re: Worship can be livestreamed, but communion can't?
« Reply #527 on: April 18, 2020, 12:55:40 PM »

Is there some essential difference between live streaming and recording  the service to post the link to the videos for viewing anytime?

I think the term "live streaming" is being used rather loosely. What we're doing is recording (with some splicing in of hymns etc.) but not making available until a stated time, so that everyone is in theory watching together.

As for the efficacy of things "over the internet," it doesn't seem to me that preaching and praying would be less efficacious in a recording that literally "live streaming." After all, we often read sermons and find them edifyng. The Eucharist is different because of the need for embodiment. As for absolution, I have more trouble with that since I'm still questioning the actual sacramental nature of general absolution.

We ARE livestreaming.  What you get is myself and our accompanist, with all our flaws and failings, just as you would during a service held with congregation present.  But we've also been doing this for 2+ years, before the pandemic, and for the sake of a few shutins.

Granted it's a shorter service with no offering and no communion.
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DCharlton

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Re: Worship can be livestreamed, but communion can't?
« Reply #528 on: April 18, 2020, 12:59:25 PM »
Can you deliver a promise from God over the telephone?  Different thing.

Not quibbling with your insights on these matters, just off on a Saturday tangent pondering,

"Can you deliver a promise from God using a written letter?  A printed book?  An internet message? By singing a hymn based upon Scripture? Verbally via a layperson?"

I'm not sure.  What concerns me is that we are devaluing the office of preaching when we say that Baptism and Holy Communion must be done in person, but Preaching need not be.  If it is true that Luther emphasized the sacramentality of Preaching, then I think it might be.  (It seem to me that we risk adopting a Zwinglian view of preaching, even while we maintain a Lutheran view of the Sacraments.)

A better option, is the last one you mention, "Verbally via a layperson."  The Gospel for tomorrow is John 20:19-31.  There Jesus gives the disciples gift of the Holy Spirit and the authority to forgive sins.  The question would be whether Jesus gives this authority to all Christians, or to the ordained only.  Although not everyone is called to forgive sins publicly, is a person authorized to forgive sins privately within the home?  If so, I would think it is preferable to encourage people, as baptized Christians, to pronounce the forgiveness of sins in person within their own homes. 
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Richard Johnson

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Re: Worship can be livestreamed, but communion can't?
« Reply #529 on: April 18, 2020, 02:32:24 PM »
Vimeo is only able to stream to a computer or phone/tablet...

If you have the capability to screen share, which is pretty common these days, you should be easily able to watch Vimeo on a smart TV.
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Rob Morris

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Re: Worship can be livestreamed, but communion can't?
« Reply #530 on: April 18, 2020, 06:26:02 PM »
Vimeo is only able to stream to a computer or phone/tablet...

If you have the capability to screen share, which is pretty common these days, you should be easily able to watch Vimeo on a smart TV.
Screen share is funny - certain TV manufacturers have deals with certain phone manufacturers. For instance, my iPhone cannot screen share to an LG TV. I read a fascinating article about it a few months ago... takes you into the labyrinth of corporate rights deals.

Steven Tibbetts

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Re: Worship can be livestreamed, but communion can't?
« Reply #531 on: April 18, 2020, 07:04:42 PM »

Is there some essential difference between live streaming and recording  the service to post the link to the videos for viewing anytime?

The essential difference is like that between Saturday Night Live in the Eastern Time Zone and the West Coast.  Or viewing Daily Prayer from Resurrection Lutheran Church in Godfrey, Illinois, as I am praying it (on my Facebook page at 10 am CDT and 7 pm CDT) rather than as I've saved it (there or, with very slight editing, on our YouTube channel). 

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RandyBosch

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Re: Worship can be livestreamed, but communion can't?
« Reply #532 on: April 18, 2020, 07:35:04 PM »

Is there some essential difference between live streaming and recording  the service to post the link to the videos for viewing anytime?

The essential difference is like that between Saturday Night Live in the Eastern Time Zone and the West Coast.  Or viewing Daily Prayer from Resurrection Lutheran Church in Godfrey, Illinois, as I am praying it (on my Facebook page at 10 am CDT and 7 pm CDT) rather than as I've saved it (there or, with very slight editing, on our YouTube channel). 

Pax, Steven+

Interesting...."The Theology of Time Zones".

Dave Benke

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Re: Worship can be livestreamed, but communion can't?
« Reply #533 on: April 19, 2020, 08:22:51 AM »

Is there some essential difference between live streaming and recording  the service to post the link to the videos for viewing anytime?

The essential difference is like that between Saturday Night Live in the Eastern Time Zone and the West Coast.  Or viewing Daily Prayer from Resurrection Lutheran Church in Godfrey, Illinois, as I am praying it (on my Facebook page at 10 am CDT and 7 pm CDT) rather than as I've saved it (there or, with very slight editing, on our YouTube channel). 

Pax, Steven+

Interesting...."The Theology of Time Zones".

Well, the NFL is our national religion.  When visiting on the left coast, it is an enormous jolt to the Sunday system to find the games beginning at 10 in the morning.  Irresistible sacred time meets immovable sacred time.  We don't have that problem on the righteous coast, where the NFL begins well after high mass at 1 PM.  This of course is assuming there is still an NFL as opposed to baseball and hoops.

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Re: Worship can be livestreamed, but communion can't?
« Reply #534 on: April 19, 2020, 03:19:16 PM »

Is there some essential difference between live streaming and recording  the service to post the link to the videos for viewing anytime?

The essential difference is like that between Saturday Night Live in the Eastern Time Zone and the West Coast.  Or viewing Daily Prayer from Resurrection Lutheran Church in Godfrey, Illinois, as I am praying it (on my Facebook page at 10 am CDT and 7 pm CDT) rather than as I've saved it (there or, with very slight editing, on our YouTube channel). 

Pax, Steven+

Interesting...."The Theology of Time Zones".

Well, the NFL is our national religion.  When visiting on the left coast, it is an enormous jolt to the Sunday system to find the games beginning at 10 in the morning.  Irresistible sacred time meets immovable sacred time.  We don't have that problem on the righteous coast, where the NFL begins well after high mass at 1 PM.  This of course is assuming there is still an NFL as opposed to baseball and hoops.


Not only football games, when I started my ministry in 1976 in California, there were kids' soccer practices on Sunday morning. Some time later, 1990s in another state, our organist had a conflict because her son was in a hockey tournament over Easter weekend. She hoped his team would lose so he wouldn't be playing during the Easter morning worship.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

James J Eivan

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Re: Worship can be livestreamed, but communion can't?
« Reply #535 on: April 19, 2020, 03:49:48 PM »
Vimeo is only able to stream to a computer or phone/tablet...
If you have the capability to screen share, which is pretty common these days, you should be easily able to watch Vimeo on a smart TV.
Screen share is funny - certain TV manufacturers have deals with certain phone manufacturers. For instance, my iPhone cannot screen share to an LG TV. I read a fascinating article about it a few months ago... takes you into the labyrinth of corporate rights deals.
Correct ... Apple compatibility with non Apple equipment is greatly lacking ... about the time we acquired a Roku device, we were given a five year old retired android device (Samsung phone).  With the android device, anything on the android screen can appear on the tv screen thru the Roku.


From what I have read, only content actually saved on an Apple device (ie pictures and videos) can be displayed on the TV ... streaming YouTube and Facebook live from an Apple device cannot be ‘cast’ and/or ‘mirrored’ thru a non Apple TV device.  I would greatly appreciate having this statement proved wrong as it would be great to use our iOS devices to stream YouTube and Facebook services through a Roku device.

Steven Tibbetts

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Re: Worship can be livestreamed, but communion can't?
« Reply #536 on: April 19, 2020, 07:21:07 PM »

Is there some essential difference between live streaming and recording  the service to post the link to the videos for viewing anytime?

The essential difference is like that between Saturday Night Live in the Eastern Time Zone and the West Coast.  Or viewing Daily Prayer from Resurrection Lutheran Church in Godfrey, Illinois, as I am praying it (on my Facebook page at 10 am CDT and 7 pm CDT) rather than as I've saved it (there or, with very slight editing, on our YouTube channel). 

Interesting...."The Theology of Time Zones".

Well, the NFL is our national religion.  When visiting on the left coast, it is an enormous jolt to the Sunday system to find the games beginning at 10 in the morning.  Irresistible sacred time meets immovable sacred time.

Perhaps I should have stuck with my initial thought: "Is it live or Memorex?"

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Re: Worship can be livestreamed, but communion can't?
« Reply #537 on: April 19, 2020, 07:43:10 PM »

Is there some essential difference between live streaming and recording  the service to post the link to the videos for viewing anytime?

The essential difference is like that between Saturday Night Live in the Eastern Time Zone and the West Coast.  Or viewing Daily Prayer from Resurrection Lutheran Church in Godfrey, Illinois, as I am praying it (on my Facebook page at 10 am CDT and 7 pm CDT) rather than as I've saved it (there or, with very slight editing, on our YouTube channel). 

Interesting...."The Theology of Time Zones".

Well, the NFL is our national religion.  When visiting on the left coast, it is an enormous jolt to the Sunday system to find the games beginning at 10 in the morning.  Irresistible sacred time meets immovable sacred time.

Perhaps I should have stuck with my initial thought: "Is it live or Memorex?"

spt+
Going live in 39 minutes...


Isn't "dead" the opposite of "live"?
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

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Charles Austin

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Re: Worship can be livestreamed, but communion can't?
« Reply #539 on: April 25, 2020, 06:45:23 PM »
I have often wondered what the difference is between clergy or anyone sitting down and praying for others and the world  and clergy exercising our specific vocation, going to the altar and celebrating. We Lutherans do not offer the “sacrifice of the mass”and our general rule is no mass without communicants. But isn’t it just another way of praying?
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