Author Topic: Coronavirus news  (Read 474063 times)

Dan Fienen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4875 on: September 17, 2021, 01:47:42 PM »
Can we derive from this the principle that people should not be allowed a choice if their choice could endanger other people? So since not being vaccinated puts other people at risk, they should not have a choice about being vaccinated but should be compelled to get the shot? (With the possible exception of where people's medical condition is such that the shot would be a medically unacceptable risk for them to be vaccinated.) Can this be applied to other situations where a person's choice can endanger others?
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Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4876 on: September 17, 2021, 07:26:07 PM »
Can we derive from this the principle that people should not be allowed a choice if their choice could endanger other people? So since not being vaccinated puts other people at risk, they should not have a choice about being vaccinated but should be compelled to get the shot? (With the possible exception of where people's medical condition is such that the shot would be a medically unacceptable risk for them to be vaccinated.) Can this be applied to other situations where a person's choice can endanger others?


Yes, and anticipating where you're going with this; when allowing the birth of an unwanted child endangers the health of the mother (either, physically, mentally, or emotionally,) we need to weigh the health of the mother vs. the health of the child. In most cases, the health of the mother wins.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

peter_speckhard

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4877 on: September 17, 2021, 07:31:56 PM »
Can we derive from this the principle that people should not be allowed a choice if their choice could endanger other people? So since not being vaccinated puts other people at risk, they should not have a choice about being vaccinated but should be compelled to get the shot? (With the possible exception of where people's medical condition is such that the shot would be a medically unacceptable risk for them to be vaccinated.) Can this be applied to other situations where a person's choice can endanger others?


Yes, and anticipating where you're going with this; when allowing the birth of an unwanted child endangers the health of the mother (either, physically, mentally, or emotionally,) we need to weigh the health of the mother vs. the health of the child. In most cases, the health of the mother wins.
It isn’t health vs. health. It is health vs. certain death.

Dan Fienen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4878 on: September 17, 2021, 08:01:18 PM »
Can we derive from this the principle that people should not be allowed a choice if their choice could endanger other people? So since not being vaccinated puts other people at risk, they should not have a choice about being vaccinated but should be compelled to get the shot? (With the possible exception of where people's medical condition is such that the shot would be a medically unacceptable risk for them to be vaccinated.) Can this be applied to other situations where a person's choice can endanger others?


Yes, and anticipating where you're going with this; when allowing the birth of an unwanted child endangers the health of the mother (either, physically, mentally, or emotionally,) we need to weigh the health of the mother vs. the health of the child. In most cases, the health of the mother wins.
I had no idea that pregnancy was such a life threatening condition! In 2017 there were some 862,000 pregnancies in the US terminated by abortion. Does that mean that the lives of 862,000 women were threatened by their pregnancies? You'd think we'd have a better handle on the medical threats pregnancy posed.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 08:13:30 PM by Dan Fienen »
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Michael Slusser

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4879 on: September 18, 2021, 11:14:36 AM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2021/09/18/southen-baptist-missionaries-covid-vaccine/
Excerpt:
Quote
“Part of what they have to deal with is, if their staff gets sick overseas, the burden and cost are really high,” he said. “They know no matter what you decide, some people will be upset. That’s been the life of every pastor or priest since the pandemic started.”

Issuing a sweeping mandate also spares them from having to evaluate individual countries’ transmission levels or public health responses and tailor vaccine requirements for each one.

Crafting a vaccine policy is one of many steps agencies have had to take to get more missionaries back out in the field after the disruption of the pandemic. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints recalled tens of thousands of missionaries in 2020, and has been sending missionaries overseas again for about a year. Earlier this year, it said missionaries who are not fully vaccinated are unable to receive an assignment outside their home country.

Peace,
Michael
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D. Engebretson

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4880 on: September 19, 2021, 04:28:20 PM »
As COVID-19 vaccine mandates rise, religious exemptions grow

https://religionnews.com/2021/09/16/as-covid-19-vaccine-mandates-rise-religious-exemptions-grow/?fbclid=IwAR0czs4gdaMIWugBV6ciD21QFFLdt2pugI4Q13tPJOsTXL2KZsGckKYSygA

Raising a "religious exemption," legitimate or not, is not a guarantee that the person will be exempted from the requirement to be vaccinated, or that they will keep their jobs.

However, some hold very strong objections to being vaccinated, and it appears that many will leave their positions and states rather than be subjected to the requirement.  It will be interesting to see how many will leave their jobs once the vaccine mandate is widely implemented.  Upwards of 100 million Americans could be impacted by this mandate.  If enough people resign from the military and law enforcement, among other critical services, it could create a real problem.  If this occurs, it will be interesting, again, to see if the 'mandate' is modified or scaled back, or if the president, et. al. will double down anyway. 

As they say, stay tuned....
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

Dave Likeness

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4881 on: September 19, 2021, 04:48:01 PM »
As Crooner Frank Sinatra sang: "The End is near, I see the Final Curtain,
I did it My Way."

J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4882 on: September 20, 2021, 11:15:37 AM »
https://townhall.com/columnists/scottmorefield/2021/09/20/would-jesus-wear-a-mask-n2596139

The most relevant excerpts:

Quote


Far more prevalent - and even encouraged by the media and powers-that-be - are Christian arguments from the left that focus on vaccines and mask use as something that ‘Jesus would have done.’ Most notably of late, Saddleback Church pastor and author Rick Warren:

“The Bible says ‘Love your neighbor as yourself,” Warren said in March in a video that recently gained widespread attention on social media. “The most practical way right now you can love your neighbor as yourself, wear a mask. Okay? And to not wear one basically says, ‘I don’t care about you,’ or ‘I don’t even care about your fears.’”

...

In truth, Jesus commanded us to love the Lord first with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength, then to love our neighbors as ourselves. How then are we to love the Lord with our minds if we dismiss data and evidence on a topic that goes against our presuppositions or a prevailing narrative? How are we to ‘love’ our neighbors while at the same time bearing false witness to them? Is our duty to make them “feel better” or to tell them the truth? What would Jesus have done? In an age where masking has become a talisman, even an idol of sorts to people desperate to find something, anything that ‘controls’ something that is ultimately proving to be uncontrollable, would the Son of God have given people comfort by lying to them or by telling them the truth?


« Last Edit: September 20, 2021, 09:50:15 PM by J. Thomas Shelley »
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Served as a Lutheran Pastor October 31, 1989 - October 31, 2014.
Charter member of the first chapter of the Society of the Holy Trinity.

Chrismated Antiochian Orthodox, eve of Mary of Egypt Sunday, A.D. 2015

jebutler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4883 on: September 20, 2021, 01:24:52 PM »
BTW, A restaurant hostess, following the law, asked patrons for proof of vaccination. And they attacked her physically, causing her to go to the hospital.

And, of course, there was more to this story. But why allow facts to into the way of Charles' narrative?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/18/nyregion/carmines-vaccination-fight.html
The truth we preach is not an abstract thing. The truth is a Person. The goodness we preach is not an ideal quality. The goodness is Someone who is good. The love we preach is God himself in Christ. --H. Grady Davis

peter_speckhard

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4884 on: September 20, 2021, 08:07:23 PM »
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2021/09/19/sharyl_attkisson_serious_questions_about_the_way_covid_deaths_have_been_counted.html

Usually there is a money trail. Probably there was Covid related aid available, giving various groups an incentive to find Covid involved with deaths.

James S. Rustad

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4885 on: September 20, 2021, 11:10:48 PM »
Just heard the local TV news talk about how the COVID-19 pandemic has now killed more people than the 1918 flu pandemic.

I found an article that gives more information:

The U.S. death toll from COVID-19 has surpassed that of the 1918 flu pandemic, according to a tracker from Johns Hopkins University, highlighting the extraordinary damage incurred by the current virus.

On the other hand, later in the same article it is mentioned that the 1918 flu pandemic death rate was 6 per 10000, while the COVID-19 death rate is 2 per 1000 (so far).  It's because there are roughly 3 times as many people today than in 1918.

However you measure - total deaths or death rate - COVID-19 is near the top of the list of pandemics.

Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4886 on: September 20, 2021, 11:20:27 PM »
Pastor Butler:
But why allow facts to into the way of Charles' narrative?

Me:
Get real. Those facts came out after my original post. It's not as if I was hiding them. Every story develops, we learn new things.
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James S. Rustad

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4887 on: September 21, 2021, 08:10:56 AM »
Pastor Austin believed the news published in the New York Times.  Can't blame him, the paper he accepts as THE authority let him down by publishing FAKE NEWS. :o

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/17/nyregion/carmines-nyc-hostess-attacked.html?action=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article


Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4888 on: September 21, 2021, 08:37:20 AM »
I repeat. Stories evolve. The story as first printed was based on the information at hand then. You will notice that the times published the next story, in essence showing that the first story was incomplete and wrong, not because of bad journalism, but because more information becomes available.  Do your guys at Fox News do that?
Retired ELCA Pastor: We are not a very inter-Lutheran forum. Posters with more than 1,500 posts: ELCA-6, with 3 of those inactive/rare and 1 moderator; LCMS-25, with 4 inactive/rare and 1 moderator. Non-Lutherans, 3; maybe 4 from other Lutheran bodies. 3 formerly frequent posters have gone quiet.

David Garner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4889 on: September 21, 2021, 09:08:34 AM »
Warning -- language -- but if we're going to do the thing where some folks pretend the NYT is just calling balls and strikes, perhaps this would be instructive.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/5ifCsGwt84dkHMxIrUHqwr?si=-X06zSjnTSWkql_Sz-h9WQ&dl_branch=1
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).