Author Topic: Coronavirus news  (Read 402149 times)

Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4110 on: July 15, 2021, 09:04:48 AM »
“Their choice”?  That “choice” can cost tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars, perhaps millions of dollars in medical care, ancillary pain, suffering and other consequences. When people’s choices, Which they make contrary to solid advice, have widespread community impact, what then?
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J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4111 on: July 15, 2021, 09:58:49 AM »
“Their choice”?  That “choice” can cost tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars, perhaps millions of dollars in medical care, ancillary pain, suffering and other consequences. When people’s choices, Which they make contrary to solid advice, have widespread community impact, what then?

Pennsylvania repealed its mandatory motorcycle helmet law about a decade ago.

Yes, there have been deaths.  But the media has largely ceased noting whether or not the mc driver was wearing a helmet.
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peter_speckhard

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4112 on: July 15, 2021, 10:08:03 AM »
“Their choice”?  That “choice” can cost tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars, perhaps millions of dollars in medical care, ancillary pain, suffering and other consequences. When people’s choices, Which they make contrary to solid advice, have widespread community impact, what then?
People eat terrible diets resulting in all kinds of avoidable suffering and medical costs related to obesity and diabetes. What then? One of the most harmful choices a person can make is to have sex out of wedlock. The amount of human misery caused by this choice, both to individuals and society generally, far exceeds the damage of any pandemic. But people do it, even contrary to solid advice. Many people drink way too much, and so forth.

The mindset that sees every problem as the government's to deal with and every mess as the government's to clean up naturally veers toward totalitarian control of what people are allowed to do. To a certain extent it is unavoidable, but as a general principle everyone agrees that you can't have individualized choices with socialized consequences. Most responsible, freedom-loving people say, "Fine, let's keep the choices private but not socialize the consequences." Most socialists at heart say, "Fine, let's socialize the choices, too."

   
« Last Edit: July 15, 2021, 11:26:49 AM by peter_speckhard »

Norman Teigen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4113 on: July 15, 2021, 10:36:48 AM »
Your comments defy comprehension.
Norman Teigen

David Garner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4114 on: July 15, 2021, 10:43:38 AM »
Again on the topic of trust in media, which relates to this topic in that the public does not think media institutions that tell them information about the disease and the cure are trustworthy, this article is comical in its naïveté:

https://www.axios.com/media-trust-crisis-2bf0ec1c-00c0-4901-9069-e26b21c283a9.html

The author seems to bemoan this lack of trust, but says media outlets should "continue" to "tell the truth."  Of course, trust in media is at an all time low precisely because media outlets do not tell the truth.  That is, people do not trust the media and institutions because the media and institutions are not worthy of their trust.

Instead of "get the CEOs to vouch for us," my recommendation is "do better."
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

peter_speckhard

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4115 on: July 15, 2021, 10:51:03 AM »
Your comments defy comprehension.
When the big guys in charge have to pay for what you do, they like to tell you what you can and can't do. Some folks think that means that for the most part you should do what you want and not make the big guys in charge pay for it. Some folks think that for the most part you should do what you're told by the big guys in charge and then be glad that they pay for it.

David Garner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4116 on: July 15, 2021, 10:54:05 AM »
Your comments defy comprehension.
When the big guys in charge have to pay for what you do, they like to tell you what you can and can't do. Some folks think that means that for the most part you should do what you want and not make the big guys in charge pay for it. Some folks think that for the most part you should do what you're told by the big guys in charge and then be glad that they pay for it.

For what it's worth, I think most people comprehended just fine.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

peter_speckhard

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4117 on: July 15, 2021, 11:07:53 AM »
Your comments defy comprehension.
When the big guys in charge have to pay for what you do, they like to tell you what you can and can't do. Some folks think that means that for the most part you should do what you want and not make the big guys in charge pay for it. Some folks think that for the most part you should do what you're told by the big guys in charge and then be glad that they pay for it.

For what it's worth, I think most people comprehended just fine.
I know. But restating the basic principle using nothing but monosyllabic words was an interesting exercise.

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4118 on: July 15, 2021, 11:10:16 AM »
“'America needs to learn this lesson,' Haley said in the segment. 'When you start getting money the government’s doling out, they eventually own you. And when they own you, people suffer. That’s what we don’t want. We’re seeing a mission creep of socialism from Bernie and the squad saying ‘let’s give money out by stimuluses and everything else.’ We will pay a huge price in our freedom if we allow this to continue.'”     Nikki Haley

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/madelineleesman/2021/07/12/nikki-haley-cuba-communism-n2592403
« Last Edit: July 15, 2021, 11:14:07 AM by Donald_Kirchner »
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David Garner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4119 on: July 15, 2021, 11:14:03 AM »
“'America needs to learn this lesson,' Haley said in the segment. 'When you start getting money the government’s doling out, they eventually own you. And when they own you, people suffer. That’s what we don’t want. We’re seeing a mission creep of socialism from Bernie and the squad saying ‘let’s give money out by stimuluses and everything else.’ We will pay a huge price in our freedom if we allow this to continue.'”     Nikki Haley

I don't think she's capable of winning the Republican nomination, and I don't know that she will try given DeSantis' apparent status as the front-runner 3 years early, but I cannot overstate how fast I would run to the polls to vote for Nikki Haley for president.
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Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4120 on: July 15, 2021, 02:26:31 PM »
Delta is evidence that the vaccine works as people with severe symptoms are unvaccinated.  That unvaccinated people can still be infected is no surprise.  It's also not evidence that we need to mandate vaccinations for all - if the unvaccinated want to run the risk of severe COVID, that's their choice.  You can lead a horse to water...


Who will be paying for the hospitalizations of those who get infected? I don't want my insurance rates to go up so that my insurer can cover the costs of the hospitalizations and treatments of the unvaccinated.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

David Garner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4121 on: July 15, 2021, 02:30:42 PM »
Delta is evidence that the vaccine works as people with severe symptoms are unvaccinated.  That unvaccinated people can still be infected is no surprise.  It's also not evidence that we need to mandate vaccinations for all - if the unvaccinated want to run the risk of severe COVID, that's their choice.  You can lead a horse to water...


Who will be paying for the hospitalizations of those who get infected? I don't want my insurance rates to go up so that my insurer can cover the costs of the hospitalizations and treatments of the unvaccinated.

That's very illiberal of you.  Generically speaking, don't you want the government to pay for all healthcare in the country?  If so, what's the difference?
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4122 on: July 15, 2021, 02:30:55 PM »
“Their choice”?  That “choice” can cost tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars, perhaps millions of dollars in medical care, ancillary pain, suffering and other consequences. When people’s choices, Which they make contrary to solid advice, have widespread community impact, what then?
People eat terrible diets resulting in all kinds of avoidable suffering and medical costs related to obesity and diabetes. What then? One of the most harmful choices a person can make is to have sex out of wedlock. The amount of human misery caused by this choice, both to individuals and society generally, far exceeds the damage of any pandemic. But people do it, even contrary to solid advice. Many people drink way too much, and so forth.

The mindset that sees every problem as the government's to deal with and every mess as the government's to clean up naturally veers toward totalitarian control of what people are allowed to do. To a certain extent it is unavoidable, but as a general principle everyone agrees that you can't have individualized choices with socialized consequences. Most responsible, freedom-loving people say, "Fine, let's keep the choices private but not socialize the consequences." Most socialists at heart say, "Fine, let's socialize the choices, too."


And when drunk drivers crash into and kills a sober neighbor, their drinking is no longer an individual choice. It has become a deadly choice for the people around them.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4123 on: July 15, 2021, 02:33:16 PM »
Your comments defy comprehension.
When the big guys in charge have to pay for what you do, they like to tell you what you can and can't do. Some folks think that means that for the most part you should do what you want and not make the big guys in charge pay for it. Some folks think that for the most part you should do what you're told by the big guys in charge and then be glad that they pay for it.

For what it's worth, I think most people comprehended just fine.


I'm sure Adam and Eve comprehended the words from God and the words from the serpent just fine, too.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4124 on: July 15, 2021, 02:35:23 PM »
Delta is evidence that the vaccine works as people with severe symptoms are unvaccinated.  That unvaccinated people can still be infected is no surprise.  It's also not evidence that we need to mandate vaccinations for all - if the unvaccinated want to run the risk of severe COVID, that's their choice.  You can lead a horse to water...


Who will be paying for the hospitalizations of those who get infected? I don't want my insurance rates to go up so that my insurer can cover the costs of the hospitalizations and treatments of the unvaccinated.

That's very illiberal of you.  Generically speaking, don't you want the government to pay for all healthcare in the country?  If so, what's the difference?


Sure, but we're not there yet. What's your conservative answer to paying the medical bills of those who get sick (and die) who refused to get vaccinated?
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]