Author Topic: Coronavirus news  (Read 399663 times)

Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3855 on: June 24, 2021, 05:21:05 AM »
We are not “back.” Not “great.” And it’s our own fault. Here is  the top of the Nicholas Kristof column today.

America is back” became President Biden’s refrain on his European trip this month, and in a narrow sense it is.
   We no longer have a White House aide desperately searching for a fire alarm to interrupt a president as he humiliates our country at an international news conference, as happened in 2018. And a Pew Research Center survey found that 75 percent of those polled in a dozen countries expressed “confidence in the U.S. president to do the right thing,” compared with 17 percent a year ago.
   Yet in a larger sense, America is not back. In terms of our well-being at home and competitiveness abroad, the blunt truth is that America is lagging. In some respects, we are sliding toward mediocrity.
    Greeks have higher high school graduation rates.
    Chileans live longer.
    Fifteen-year-olds in Russia, Poland, Latvia and many other countries are better at math than their American counterparts — perhaps a metric for where nations will stand in a generation or two.
    As for reading, one-fifth of American 15-year-olds can’t read at the level expected of a 10-year-old. How are those millions of Americans going to compete in a globalized economy?
    As I see it, the greatest threat to America’s future is less a surging China or a rogue Russia than it is our underperformance at home.
    We Americans repeat the mantra that “we’re No. 1” even though the latest Social Progress Index, a measure of health, safety and well-being around the world, ranked the United States No. 28. Even worse, the United States was one of only three countries, out of 163, that went backward in well-being over the last decade. Another assessment this month, the I.M.D. World Competitiveness Ranking 2021, put the United States No. 10 out of 64 economies. A similar forward-looking study from the World Bank ranks the United States No. 35 out of 174 countries.
    So it’s great that we again have a president respected by the world. But we are not “back,” and we must face the reality that our greatest vulnerability is not what other countries do to us but what we have done to ourselves. The United States cannot achieve its potential when so many Americans are falling short of theirs.
The whole column is here:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/23/opinion/america-security-competitiveness.html
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

D. Engebretson

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3856 on: June 24, 2021, 08:48:30 AM »
Just wondering if this is something about "coronavirus news".  In fact, the whole last page of posts seem to be going in another direction, with only one post addressing issues associated with the virus.  Perhaps after 258 pages of posts this thread has reached its natural end?
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

Randy Bosch

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3857 on: June 24, 2021, 09:16:48 AM »
Just wondering if this is something about "coronavirus news".  In fact, the whole last page of posts seem to be going in another direction, with only one post addressing issues associated with the virus.  Perhaps after 258 pages of posts this thread has reached its natural end?

Maybe it's the Corona Virus News Pandemic now?
Symptoms among both vaccinated and unvaccinated victims may vary, and include: Virtue signaling, people looking to hide blame by blaming others, and the dreaded after-effect of bloviating? 

Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3858 on: June 24, 2021, 10:00:44 AM »
I post a column in which the writer is critical of a slogan used by Democrats, and suddenly people think this thread should be shut down.
Say what?!
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3859 on: June 24, 2021, 10:01:24 AM »
America is back! We're great! We're number 1! U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A! Coronavirus can kiss my big fat American-- [we interrupt this thoughtful commentary to bring you an important announcement from the President-- "F-15 fighter jets and intercontinental ballistic missiles could be deployed against any armed rednecks who might threaten to overthrow the U.S. government, so no more malarkey!" Now back to our regularly scheduled programming still in progress]-- which proves conclusively that Charles is in league with China to use the pandemic to undermine the integrity of our elections.   

D. Engebretson

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3860 on: June 24, 2021, 10:42:09 AM »
I don't think the thread should necessarily be shut down.  I just wonder why our discussion is not on the subject thread and instead drifted again into politics.  And it wasn't just critical of a Democratic slogan, but took obvious swipes at the previous administration.  But I'm not looking for another political tussle.  I just thought the thread was about the news on the coronavirus. 
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3861 on: June 24, 2021, 11:54:34 AM »
And if you can separate discussion of the virus from politics, good luck.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

D. Engebretson

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3862 on: June 24, 2021, 11:59:09 AM »
You can't. But the virus is more than just politics in general.
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3863 on: June 24, 2021, 12:11:20 PM »
Then here’s A question, Pastor Engebretson.
Will it be necessary to pass some laws to either get the fools currently refusing vaccinations to take the shots, or at least to restrict their activities so they don’t injure themselves or others?
We require children to be vaccinated before they can enter public schools. Why can’t we require these “children” to take the vaccinations?
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

Randy Bosch

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3864 on: June 24, 2021, 12:43:55 PM »
Then here’s A question, Pastor Engebretson.
Will it be necessary to pass some laws to either get the fools currently refusing vaccinations to take the shots, or at least to restrict their activities so they don’t injure themselves or others?
We require children to be vaccinated before they can enter public schools. Why can’t we require these “children” to take the vaccinations?

We met with some of your "...fools currently refusing vaccinations..." yesterday at an assisted living/memory care facility.
At least four of them cannot take the vaccinations on advice of medical experts because of their precarious health including ongoing treatment with very heavy doses of specialized medication.
We're vaccinated and wore masks.  They wore masks, too.
Several in a memory care unit are probably the "...children...", your further definition of those "fools".  Those have and continue to very rapidly lose long term memory leaving only childhood memories.

Whether or not it may be your intention, your painting loosely with a broad brush damages a lot of things, including the painter.  What will you recommend next?  State euthanasia of those fools?
 
« Last Edit: June 24, 2021, 12:55:22 PM by Randy Bosch »

peter_speckhard

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3865 on: June 24, 2021, 12:56:27 PM »
Then here’s A question, Pastor Engebretson.
Will it be necessary to pass some laws to either get the fools currently refusing vaccinations to take the shots, or at least to restrict their activities so they don’t injure themselves or others?
We require children to be vaccinated before they can enter public schools. Why can’t we require these “children” to take the vaccinations?
Classic autocrat mindset. Disagreers are by definition fools. We need to save ourselves and them from themselves. We mandate x, why can’t we mandate x+1? They will learn to stop struggling and love Big Brother. And if they don’t, well, no real loss.

D. Engebretson

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3866 on: June 24, 2021, 01:01:05 PM »
Then here’s A question, Pastor Engebretson.
Will it be necessary to pass some laws to either get the fools currently refusing vaccinations to take the shots, or at least to restrict their activities so they don’t injure themselves or others?
We require children to be vaccinated before they can enter public schools. Why can’t we require these “children” to take the vaccinations?

As far as I know the state has never "required" vaccinations of the population in general.* I received my vaccination back in February, partly as a way to gain entry to my elderly members in assisted care facilities, partly as protection for myself, and partly as protection of my members. 

A number of medical people have refused the vaccination.  Some have lost their jobs over it.  Some of my members, not many, do not want to get the vaccine, and a couple of those work in the healthcare industry.  Part of this is not just a refusal, but a desire to wait for 'full' approval.  Some of it is undoubtedly informed by things they know about the health industry and medicine. Some are hesitant about the emergency status of the CDC's authorization.  Some people wanted to see what the side effects would be. Such as for pregnant women. For the vast majority of us there have been little to none.  But for some the effects have been significant.  Some of my members who had already contracted COVID-19 and recovered had a much harder time with the vaccine.  One person I know, who has recovered and now has antibodies, sees no sense in taking the vaccine. 

At some businesses like Walmart they do not require the workers to be vaccinated, but do require those not vaccinated to wear masks. Since we have been told by the CDC that masks are effective in protecting others, apparently even businesses feel that their workers without the vaccine pose little danger to the rest of the store.  Or should they believe otherwise?

I know you have used the word "fool" before of those unwilling to be vaccinated.  I don't know if you would tell your own concerned members (if you were yet serving a parish) that they are fools for not being vaccinated.  I will not. I respect their concerns, and realize that all Americans must make an informed decision about such matters that directly impact their lives and health, not just the lives and health of others.

*As a side note: In the 80s AIDS was a very serious health concern. At the time few drugs were available to treat the disease effectively.  We now have more, and the life expectancy has increased for those infected. As far as I know the state has never mandated that those who engage in risky behavior (e.g. unprotected sex) take certain precautions or take certain medicines. They are left to make those decisions on their own. I suspect if we did mandate such measures we would be accused of unfairly targeting certain groups of people in a minority status.   
« Last Edit: June 24, 2021, 01:05:26 PM by D. Engebretson »
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3867 on: June 24, 2021, 02:18:48 PM »
Do not be intentionally dense. My appellation, Pastor Bosch, obviously does not apply to those with valid medical reason for not taking the shots.
The vaccines work. They save lives. They save others from being infected.
It is hard for me to drum up “respect” for the views of those who ignore these facts.
Just like it is hard for me to respect the views of people who would not wear seatbelts, drive 90mph, or do certain other things that cause harm.

Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3868 on: June 24, 2021, 02:38:37 PM »
Do not be intentionally dense. My appellation, Pastor Bosch, obviously does not apply to those with valid medical reason for not taking the shots.
The vaccines work. They save lives. They save others from being infected.
It is hard for me to drum up “respect” for the views of those who ignore these facts.
Just like it is hard for me to respect the views of people who would not wear seatbelts, drive 90mph, or do certain other things that cause harm.
I recently counseled a couple who disagreed about vaccinating their son. One wanted it done, citing the health of their child, the other did not, also citing the health of their child. The one feared the virus even though it would likely do next to nothing even if their healthy teenage son got it. The other feared the possible side-effects of the vaccine more than the virus. Neither of them is a fool. A fool is someone who thinks there are no reasons an intelligent person might choose not to get himself or his child vaccinated.

At first it was often minority neighborhoods that feared the vaccine and refused to get it. Distrust of such programs runs deep. But nobody called them fools for being reluctant. Now it seems like some conservatives are more reluctant and suddenly they're just fools. I got the vaccine. So did my kids, some of whom had already had it. Whatever. I wasn't scared of getting Covid (which most of my family had) and I wasn't scared of the vaccine. I know several adults who have nothing against getting vaccinated but also aren't bothering to get it. Not everybody is as capable of living in constant panic and fear the way they are told to. 

Dave Benke

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3869 on: June 24, 2021, 05:57:26 PM »
My church is in an under-vaccinated zip code.  There have been multiple and enormous efforts with buses, personal transportation, gift-packs, etc. to up the percentage.  Probably 90% of the folks in the zip code are black and brown, the majority Latino.  We just keep encouraging, day in and day out, bi-and-trilingually.  I forget what the bell curve says is the percentage of "late adapters" to any proposal.   Let's say it's 15%.  In this case I think it's closer to 25% nationwide and that's what's listed (fully or one shot) in 11208.  I don't think many if any of those folks are vaccine resistant - that is, believe the whacky theories being spun.  But they are hesitant.

Dave Benke