Author Topic: Coronavirus news  (Read 513387 times)

NGB

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3225 on: March 09, 2021, 08:48:41 AM »
The concern for Pastor Cottingham and others seems to be with "lockdowns" or "massive lockdowns" and the ensuing effect on the - OMG! NO! - economy.

The high school aged son of an acquaintance committed suicide last summer. He was told that lockdowns, no school, social distancing, and the like were the "new normal," and it pushed him over the edge. He was the first—and for a long time, only—Covid-related fatality in my social circles. According to the CDC, one in four young adults have seriously considered suicide in the past 30 days, up from one in ten back in 2018.

Another high school boy I know went from banging his head pre-Covid (a common coping mechanism, particularly among autistic children—the physical pain from banging their head distracts from the mental or emotional pain that they can't easily handle) to slitting his wrists post-Covid. Apparently the physical pain from banging or punching his head has been no match for the mental anguish and social isolation he's experienced from the lockdowns.

My various vocations put me in close contact with people in middle school, high school, and college. In all three groups, but especially in the latter two, the rise in mental ill health is obvious. Several girls have had to increase their counseling appointments to weekly or even twice weekly to help cope with their suicidal ideation. I even know a couple of middle aged people who have been dealing with the same problem. And of course many people have become heavy drinkers over the past year, just to cope with all their problems (mostly stress from social isolation and economic uncertainty).

There's also the effect on younger children to be considered. Now, I am no expert in the field of psychology, but my understanding is that the consensus view is that peer socialization up to the age of four is vital to the normal social development of children. What effect does chopping off an entire year, year and a half, or two years of that have on a child? I suppose we'll find out. And even assuming that peer socialization isn't as important as child psychologists make it out to be, it seems obvious that spending a quarter of one's young life never leaving the house, never seeing anyone but one's parents, and dealing with the ambient stress from the rest of the household (children are remarkably good at figuring out when their parents are stressed, even if the parents don't say anything) is bound to have significant deleterious effects. The government is running a vast psychological experiment with unwilling participants. We'll be working out the results for decades to come.

I know that from the secluded comfort of a retirement community, it can be easy to miss or overlook the effects of the lockdowns on those under the age of 65, and especially on children and youth. But to dismiss all concerns as "OMG! NO! The economy!" is pretty unhelpful.

Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3226 on: March 09, 2021, 09:04:10 AM »
Just for the record, living in a retirement community does not mean you don’t have any contact with younger people. Every single person I know in our facility who is not actually homebound, has younger friends, children, grandchildren around here, and we go out to the grocery store, supermarket, church. We are not isolated.
But I still remain worried about those who put the value of the “economy” over the value of people., If the necessary shut downs are causing difficulties for people, Then we deal with those difficulties, either in preparation or in continuation.
As for those who drink more because of lockdowns, give me a break. I’ve worked with alcoholics for years, and those who blame their disease on the lockdowns are just whistling in the cemetery.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2021, 09:15:53 AM by Charles Austin »
Retired ELCA Pastor. You can say liberal Christians are wrong. You can say that you disagree with our interpretation of faith. But when you say we are driven by “culture” or “trendiness,” you prove that you do not listen to us. Luther fared better with Rome.

Pilgrim

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3227 on: March 09, 2021, 09:35:11 AM »
Charles,

It saddens me that you so easily distinguish between people and the economy and its impact on life. As one who is also retired, I'm not as impacted as I might have been during my working life, but the fact is: Life is all intertwined and interrelated. The economy is a part of people lives, psychologically, socially, just as is relationships, kinfolk, living communities, even the genome project (!), etc. You are so liberally cavalier sometimes that it really makes me question how much you truly learned about life in its fulness, in spite of your autobiographical rehearsing (over and over) of same on this and previous forums.

Tim Christ

Pr. Tim Christ, STS

peter_speckhard

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3228 on: March 09, 2021, 10:18:00 AM »
“The economy” is not “money.” It is the activity of everyone’s vocation in aggregate. It is a big part of what people do.


 


Randy Bosch

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3229 on: March 09, 2021, 10:27:18 AM »
Charles sees cavalier disregard for basic science and health expert advice in the writings and actions of others, none of whom evidenced either cardinal sin he berates again and again.  He seems to desire that any hope for the future be beaten down until it is permanently extinguished unless approved by a specific cadre of the elite leadership.
None of the comments hereon fulfill his condemnation of God's hopeful people as they live out the pandemic.  The commentators state caution and hope for the future, state their wise stewardship of their congregations in these times and, God willing, a return to a more open ability to worship and serve.

I was reminded of a verse from W.H. Auden's "The Shield of Achilles" by an acquaintance this morning that reflects the pessimistic crushing of even talking about hope for the future that Charles unwisely promotes:

"The mass and majesty of this world, all
That carries weight and always weights the same
Lay in the hands of others; they were small
And could not hope for help and no help came:
What their foes like to do was done, their shame
Was all the worst could wish; they lost their pride
And died as men before their bodies died."



D. Engebretson

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3230 on: March 09, 2021, 10:53:04 AM »
I think that with so much regarding the pandemic future scholars and writers will analyze what we did and see ways that it could have been done better.  In the midst of a crisis, without a 'pre-plan' as we say in firefighting, it's hard to have a program of attack that is uniform, trial-tested, and accepted by a diverse population.  Sometimes you make it up as you go along. 

Extremes always present problems.  We will look back one day and realize that some of the things we did were too much, and did not balance the various needs of the population.  The concern for physical health, for example, did not adequately prepare for the mental health fall out that came from things such as strict and extended lock downs.  Even the back-and-forth and sometimes conflicting advice that came out of the CDC and Fr. Fauci demonstrated that at times one strategy seemed good at one moment only to be abandoned later or adopted despite resistance.  We have debated lock downs and mask wearing, but a review of video clips from last year will show that Dr. Fauci himself held more than one opinion on these matters at different times.  And he is considered by some to be the nation's number one expert on these things!
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3231 on: March 09, 2021, 11:48:49 AM »
Tim Christ, no one has to believe what I post here; and I make no apologies for explaining how I reach my conclusions, sometimes by the life I have lived. Peter does this all the time, to the point where I remain convinced he was reared in and now inhabits a world quite unlike the one I occupy.
And it is partially true, but still a nice dodge to say the "economy" is more than money. No, it isn't, not in the minds and words of those in medium and high office who have advocated "opening up" and "getting back to normal" and "making America work again" ever since last March.
Witness the reaction to the current stimulus package. There is opposition to aid to the "little guy" or the small businesses and the unemployed or those strained by the costs of child care. Meanwhile there are machinations going on to "save" professional sports. And the Big Big companies ought to be able to take the financial hit of the slow- or shut-down.
When all, and I mean all of our elected leaders show as much concern for people as some do for "the economy" or "business," we will be on the way to a better place. Meanwhile, expect support for aid to those who don't really need it and sneering at aid to parents or small businesses or the unemployed.
I'm very glad to see that the administration's efforts at "bi-partisan" legislation doesn't mean they have to get all of the "opposition" on their side before they can act.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2021, 11:51:29 AM by Charles Austin »
Retired ELCA Pastor. You can say liberal Christians are wrong. You can say that you disagree with our interpretation of faith. But when you say we are driven by “culture” or “trendiness,” you prove that you do not listen to us. Luther fared better with Rome.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3232 on: March 09, 2021, 07:58:22 PM »
You know you've hit home when Charles accuses you of making a nice dodge.

There will be traffic accidents. Yet there will be traffic. That doesn't mean people on the roads care more about transportation than human life.

When you force the cancellation of weddings and funerals, graduations and vacations, when you close schools and libraries, and bankrupt the business people poured their blood sweat and tears into for years and even generations, you are sacrificing everything on the altar of safety. Which is truly sad. And doubly sad is that the safety aspect is just a fig leaf.

Some people don't mind having their lives ordered by the government. They actually prefer it. Some people don't mind a several trillion dollar government takeover of the economy. It is what they would want even if there were no virus. The pandemic is just an opportunity for them to get their way. All you have to do is look at what is included in the bill to see the the proof of that.   

Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3233 on: March 09, 2021, 08:19:23 PM »
Peter writes:
When you force the cancellation of weddings and funerals, graduations and vacations, when you close schools and libraries, and bankrupt the business people poured their blood sweat and tears into for years and even generations, you are sacrificing everything on the altar of safety. Which is truly sad. And doubly sad is that the safety aspect is just a fig leaf.
I muse:
And there we get a word from that other world. Where government is always evil and a concern for “safety,” that is, protection of health and life is phony.
Peter is not a “conservative” politically; he is an extremist libertarian. “you’ll stop my vacation when you pry it from my cold dead hands.”
Retired ELCA Pastor. You can say liberal Christians are wrong. You can say that you disagree with our interpretation of faith. But when you say we are driven by “culture” or “trendiness,” you prove that you do not listen to us. Luther fared better with Rome.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3234 on: March 09, 2021, 09:18:45 PM »
Peter writes:
When you force the cancellation of weddings and funerals, graduations and vacations, when you close schools and libraries, and bankrupt the business people poured their blood sweat and tears into for years and even generations, you are sacrificing everything on the altar of safety. Which is truly sad. And doubly sad is that the safety aspect is just a fig leaf.
I muse:
And there we get a word from that other world. Where government is always evil and a concern for “safety,” that is, protection of health and life is phony.
Peter is not a “conservative” politically; he is an extremist libertarian. “you’ll stop my vacation when you pry it from my cold dead hands.”
I’m also one of those breeders who is ruining the planet. It’s a wonder you put up with me at all.

J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3235 on: March 09, 2021, 09:34:23 PM »
Peter writes:
When you force the cancellation of weddings and funerals, graduations and vacations, when you close schools and libraries, and bankrupt the business people poured their blood sweat and tears into for years and even generations, you are sacrificing everything on the altar of safety. Which is truly sad. And doubly sad is that the safety aspect is just a fig leaf.
I muse:
And there we get a word from that other world. Where government is always evil and a concern for “safety,” that is, protection of health and life is phony.

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety


--Benjamin Franklin
Greek Orthodox-Ecumenical Patriarchate

Baptized, Confirmed, and Ordained United Methodist.
Served as a Lutheran Pastor October 31, 1989 - October 31, 2014.
Charter member of the first chapter of the Society of the Holy Trinity.

Chrismated Antiochian Orthodox, eve of Mary of Egypt Sunday, A.D. 2015

peter_speckhard

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3236 on: March 09, 2021, 09:46:23 PM »
Peter writes:
When you force the cancellation of weddings and funerals, graduations and vacations, when you close schools and libraries, and bankrupt the business people poured their blood sweat and tears into for years and even generations, you are sacrificing everything on the altar of safety. Which is truly sad. And doubly sad is that the safety aspect is just a fig leaf.
I muse:
And there we get a word from that other world. Where government is always evil and a concern for “safety,” that is, protection of health and life is phony.

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety


--Benjamin Franklin
Oh great, now you've associated me with a hate-filled, racist colonizer and anti-government extremist. Thanks a lot.  ;)

Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3237 on: March 09, 2021, 10:02:52 PM »
Not getting involved, am I, with a meme-war throwing 250-year old grenades.
And Peter, did you forget to mention what must surely have been Franklin's penchant for sexual harassment? Or at least some considerable cavorting outside the connubial bond.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2021, 12:17:14 AM by Charles Austin »
Retired ELCA Pastor. You can say liberal Christians are wrong. You can say that you disagree with our interpretation of faith. But when you say we are driven by “culture” or “trendiness,” you prove that you do not listen to us. Luther fared better with Rome.

J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3238 on: March 09, 2021, 10:14:56 PM »
Dr. Franklin was the head of the Pennsylvania delegation to the Second Continental Congress which set before humankind the truths (unfortunately, not always self-evident) that led to American Independence.

We're still five years away from the 250th anniversary.

So the meme-grenade timing is a bit off.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2021, 10:21:22 PM by J. Thomas Shelley »
Greek Orthodox-Ecumenical Patriarchate

Baptized, Confirmed, and Ordained United Methodist.
Served as a Lutheran Pastor October 31, 1989 - October 31, 2014.
Charter member of the first chapter of the Society of the Holy Trinity.

Chrismated Antiochian Orthodox, eve of Mary of Egypt Sunday, A.D. 2015

Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3239 on: March 09, 2021, 10:57:45 PM »
Nit-picking For no reason. 250 years in my usage upstream was a round number. Ben Franklin began publishing Poor Richard’s almanack, the source of many of his sayings, in 1732.
Retired ELCA Pastor. You can say liberal Christians are wrong. You can say that you disagree with our interpretation of faith. But when you say we are driven by “culture” or “trendiness,” you prove that you do not listen to us. Luther fared better with Rome.