Author Topic: Coronavirus news  (Read 399106 times)

Donald_Kirchner

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Don Kirchner

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Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1621 on: May 21, 2020, 12:37:58 AM »
Pastor Bohler, I am thinking of going to one of your churches on Sunday that’s having an open service in defiance of the governor’s order. And then I could talk to some people about how that’s working out for them, how they feel about their actions and what precautions they are taking while they have their services. I noticed that many of your churches here are rather small, and it would be rather easy for them to meet without violating any social distancing policies.
Maybe the moderators of this modest forum would designate me as an official ALPB guy, and I could write something for the forum or the newsletter about the experience.
But we shall see.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

Steven W Bohler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1622 on: May 21, 2020, 07:24:26 AM »
Pastor Bohler, I am thinking of going to one of your churches on Sunday that’s having an open service in defiance of the governor’s order. And then I could talk to some people about how that’s working out for them, how they feel about their actions and what precautions they are taking while they have their services. I noticed that many of your churches here are rather small, and it would be rather easy for them to meet without violating any social distancing policies.
Maybe the moderators of this modest forum would designate me as an official ALPB guy, and I could write something for the forum or the newsletter about the experience.
But we shall see.

If you are going there to interview people, and observe what precautions are being taken, and play journalist, then I would suggest you NOT go.  You would be taking a place in the building that another who truly wanted to worship could use. 

Terry W Culler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1623 on: May 21, 2020, 08:02:00 AM »
Last night I read the Minn. governor's response to a question about why it's okay to open restaurants but not churches.  Now we all know that reading an oral response can be amusing almost anytime, but this particular one was almost up to hilarious.  Essentially he had no good reason, it's just what he feels--who needs all that Christian stuff when you can get a nice Manhattan and a good steak?  (Yes, I know the rules restrain Moslems and Jews too, but they mostly restrain Christians who far outnumber all the others)
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Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1624 on: May 21, 2020, 08:13:12 AM »
Last night I read the Minn. governor's response to a question about why it's okay to open restaurants but not churches.  Now we all know that reading an oral response can be amusing almost anytime, but this particular one was almost up to hilarious.  Essentially he had no good reason, it's just what he feels--who needs all that Christian stuff when you can get a nice Manhattan and a good steak?  (Yes, I know the rules restrain Moslems and Jews too, but they mostly restrain Christians who far outnumber all the others)

I told my wife, " What is he, an atheist?" Checked out his bio ... you guessed it, Lutheran.   ::)

We have a park across the street from the church. Weather permitting, we're going to have an outdoor service for the Festival of Pentecost. All are welcome. I'm not really into civil disobedience, but this restaurant/church dichotomy is absolutely ridiculous!
« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 08:19:25 AM by Pr. Don Kirchner »
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Dan Fienen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1625 on: May 21, 2020, 09:30:58 AM »
Pastor Bohler, I am thinking of going to one of your churches on Sunday that’s having an open service in defiance of the governor’s order. And then I could talk to some people about how that’s working out for them, how they feel about their actions and what precautions they are taking while they have their services. I noticed that many of your churches here are rather small, and it would be rather easy for them to meet without violating any social distancing policies.
Maybe the moderators of this modest forum would designate me as an official ALPB guy, and I could write something for the forum or the newsletter about the experience.
But we shall see.
So, you're going as an investigative journalist not a worshiper? Really showing your regard for LCMS churches.
Pr. Daniel Fienen
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Steven Tibbetts

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1626 on: May 21, 2020, 09:45:29 AM »
And then I could talk to some people about how that’s working out for them, how they feel about their actions and what precautions they are taking while they have their services.


I've not seen the Minnesota districts' guidelines for returning to worship, but in the ones I have seen for churches in many locations across the nation person-to-person conversation beyond a quick greeting with other worshipers is specifically discouraged as a violation of social distancing.  Also discouraged is attendance by those in "higher risk" categories, which includes those of your and Beloved Spouse's age.

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James J Eivan

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1627 on: May 21, 2020, 10:09:51 AM »
Our congregation is specifically requesting the at risk (65+and others) to wait until May 31 so they are sure their health measures are well refined and effective.

Dave Benke

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1628 on: May 21, 2020, 10:38:42 AM »
As outlined in previous posts, New York City, and particularly the outer boroughs of Brooklyn, Queens and the Bronx, have been absolutely devastated by the corona virus.  We are allowed, as of today, to bring together 10 people at a time for worship.  Cardinal Dolan is giving the Archdiocese message on re-opening worship today, which takes in areas more lightly and more heavily hit.  All of them relate to the seven criteria for re-opening based on data as given in this update:

    Net hospitalizations for cases of Covid-19, the disease caused by the virus, must either show a continuous 14-day decline or total no more than 15 new hospitalizations a day on average over three days. The latter would probably be a realistic goal only in less populated areas.

    A 14-day decline in virus-related hospital deaths, or fewer than five a day, averaged over three days. New York City and many other parts of the state have reached that benchmark, but Long Island and the Hudson Valley have not.

    A three-day rate of new hospitalizations below two per 100,000 residents a day, something that was well beyond the grasp of New York City and its suburbs on Monday.

    A hospital-bed vacancy rate of at least 30 percent, which Mr. Cuomo has said is necessary to be prepared for possible new waves of the disease in the future. Most parts of New York have met the threshold, despite more than 9,600 coronavirus patients still being hospitalized.

    An availability rate of at least 30 percent for intensive care unit beds; 3,330 people remain in such units, often on ventilators, which are needed in severe cases of the disease.

    A weekly average of 30 virus tests per 1,000 residents a month. This category could be the most challenging one to meet in many rural or more remote areas, where testing, and thus positive results, has lagged far behind major cities, like New York, which already is surpassing this goal.

    Finally, the governor also wants at least 30 working contact tracers per 100,000 residents as part of a program led by Michael R. Bloomberg, the former New York City mayor, who has given $10.5 million for the effort. Mr. Cuomo has described the initiative as “a monumental undertaking,” requiring “an army” of tracers, some of whom will be public employees who have been redeployed.


I don't see St. Peter's having more than the minimal 10 worshipers until the end of June based on those criteria, which make total sense in hard-hit neighborhoods/zip codes/boroughs. 

Dave Benke

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1629 on: May 21, 2020, 10:41:53 AM »
Pastor Bohler writes:
If you are going there to interview people, and observe what precautions are being taken, and play journalist, then I would suggest you NOT go.  You would be taking a place in the building that another who truly wanted to worship could use. 
I comment:
Well, that just might be the case. And I do not “play” journalist. Do you “play pastor” when you tell me I caannot commune at your service? Yes, sometimes people in one of my professions have to be where people do not want us to be. But we’re not wild beasts. It might be possible to observe from “outside” or high in the organ loft and later talk to people coming or going. As I often say, life is complicated.

Pastor Fienen
So, you're going as an investigative journalist not a worshiper? Really showing your regard for LCMS churches.
I comment:
Your extremist vein pops out again.
First, there is nothing “investigative” about what I propose. It is simple, daily journalism focusing on a situation in the news, using the ABCs of the profession. This has nothing to do with “regard” for LCMS or any other church body. Your district presidents sent a public letter, threatened to sue the state; you’re in the public eye.
   Were I still attached to a news desk, this is what I would do; or have someone do (and I’ll bet someone is already planning to do it).
   1. Call the heads of the jurisdictions – a few Catholic Bishops, the two LCMS district presidents, ELCA bishops, Methodist Bishops, a few others. Get their take on what the response has been to their letter. The Minnesota Council of Churches supports the governor’s plan. Talk to some of their people.
   2. Call some pastors. Who is opening up? Who isn’t? Why or why not? What precautions are you putting in place? Any special concerns?
   3. Then on Sunday: Have reporters at three or four churches. Who comes? How many? What do people say? How are the services handled? (Yes, we would take up space in the church. Tough.) How do people feel afterward?
   I see a 1,500-word story (a bit long, but...), some pull-out quotes, maybe a box on whatever statistics might be available, and a bunch of pictures.
And now, the old firehouse dog retires to his comfy rug on the floor; knowing that when the bell rings, he will not be hopping on the truck.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

Steven W Bohler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1630 on: May 21, 2020, 11:01:32 AM »
Pastor Bohler writes:
If you are going there to interview people, and observe what precautions are being taken, and play journalist, then I would suggest you NOT go.  You would be taking a place in the building that another who truly wanted to worship could use. 
I comment:
Well, that just might be the case. And I do not “play” journalist. Do you “play pastor” when you tell me I caannot commune at your service? Yes, sometimes people in one of my professions have to be where people do not want us to be. But we’re not wild beasts. It might be possible to observe from “outside” or high in the organ loft and later talk to people coming or going. As I often say, life is complicated.

Pastor Fienen
So, you're going as an investigative journalist not a worshiper? Really showing your regard for LCMS churches.
I comment:
Your extremist vein pops out again.
First, there is nothing “investigative” about what I propose. It is simple, daily journalism focusing on a situation in the news, using the ABCs of the profession. This has nothing to do with “regard” for LCMS or any other church body. Your district presidents sent a public letter, threatened to sue the state; you’re in the public eye.
   Were I still attached to a news desk, this is what I would do; or have someone do (and I’ll bet someone is already planning to do it).
   1. Call the heads of the jurisdictions – a few Catholic Bishops, the two LCMS district presidents, ELCA bishops, Methodist Bishops, a few others. Get their take on what the response has been to their letter. The Minnesota Council of Churches supports the governor’s plan. Talk to some of their people.
   2. Call some pastors. Who is opening up? Who isn’t? Why or why not? What precautions are you putting in place? Any special concerns?
   3. Then on Sunday: Have reporters at three or four churches. Who comes? How many? What do people say? How are the services handled? (Yes, we would take up space in the church. Tough.) How do people feel afterward?
   I see a 1,500-word story (a bit long, but...), some pull-out quotes, maybe a box on whatever statistics might be available, and a bunch of pictures.
And now, the old firehouse dog retires to his comfy rug on the floor; knowing that when the bell rings, he will not be hopping on the truck.

"Were I still attached to a news desk..."

That's the heart of this.  You are NOT attached to a news desk.  So, you WOULD be playing journalist.  And you would be in the church -- not to worship -- but only to snoop.  When only 1/3 capacity is allowed, that is very selfish.  And, given your age and health history, foolish. 

As an aside, if I were the pastor and knew of your plan to do this, I would be tempted to instruct the ushers not to let you inside.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 11:03:11 AM by Steven W Bohler »

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1631 on: May 21, 2020, 12:05:12 PM »
Pastor Bohler writes:
"Were I still attached to a news desk..."
That's the heart of this.  You are NOT attached to a news desk.  So, you WOULD be playing journalist.  And you would be in the church -- not to worship -- but only to snoop.  When only 1/3 capacity is allowed, that is very selfish.
Me:
I guess the "if-ness" wasn't clear. I'm not inclined to do all that work just for "play." I was describing what I would do if someone wanted me to write a story about this situation, (a real possibility for a freelancer) if they were willing to publish what I wrote, and (usually) if they were willing to pay me for the considerable amount of time and energy it would take to do it.

Pastor Bohler:
And, given your age and health history, foolish.
Me:
Ah, but that's my call, not yours. At the last appointment with my regular doctor-guy, and the last confab with my urologist it seemed clear that I have no on-going concerns (other than being about 5 inches too short for my weight) from my previous "history." At least for now.

Pastor Bohler:
As an aside, if I were the pastor and knew of your plan to do this, I would be tempted to instruct the ushers not to let you inside.
Me:
Yes, that is your right.
And I might have written "Another church defying the governor's direction was Whatever Lutheran Church, where the Rev. Steven W. Bohler, pastor, refused to let a reporter attend the service. About (put a number here) worshippers were seen entering and leaving the church which seats (put another number here)."
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

Steven W Bohler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1632 on: May 21, 2020, 12:17:31 PM »
Pastor Bohler writes:
"Were I still attached to a news desk..."
That's the heart of this.  You are NOT attached to a news desk.  So, you WOULD be playing journalist.  And you would be in the church -- not to worship -- but only to snoop.  When only 1/3 capacity is allowed, that is very selfish.
Me:
I guess the "if-ness" wasn't clear. I'm not inclined to do all that work just for "play." I was describing what I would do if someone wanted me to write a story about this situation, (a real possibility for a freelancer) if they were willing to publish what I wrote, and (usually) if they were willing to pay me for the considerable amount of time and energy it would take to do it.

Pastor Bohler:
And, given your age and health history, foolish.
Me:
Ah, but that's my call, not yours. At the last appointment with my regular doctor-guy, and the last confab with my urologist it seemed clear that I have no on-going concerns (other than being about 5 inches too short for my weight) from my previous "history." At least for now.

Pastor Bohler:
As an aside, if I were the pastor and knew of your plan to do this, I would be tempted to instruct the ushers not to let you inside.
Me:
Yes, that is your right.
And I might have written "Another church defying the governor's direction was Whatever Lutheran Church, where the Rev. Steven W. Bohler, pastor, refused to let a reporter attend the service. About (put a number here) worshippers were seen entering and leaving the church which seats (put another number here)."

1. I refer you back to your post #1621 above.  There you were not talking about what you would do IF you were still attached to a news desk, but what you WOULD do if you were to attend a service on May 31 in a Missouri Synod church.  And that was to pretend that you were still a working journalist.  Which you are not.  And your little game would not only be a self-indulgent waste of time just to satisfy your curiosity, it would also take away a seat from someone who truly wished to worship and not simply relive imagined "glory days" by playing journalist.

2. Now you are in favor of allowing individuals to make choices?  That was hardly your position before, when others suggested opening things up.

3. Yes, I get it.  Journalists know all kinds of ways of slanting stories to lead readers to the desired conclusion.  I don't care.

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1633 on: May 21, 2020, 12:19:56 PM »
(other than being about 5 inches too short for my weight)


Very well played.  I'll have to deploy that line myself.

Rob Morris

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1634 on: May 21, 2020, 12:23:58 PM »
Always at the vanguard of the media world, The Newtown Bee was way ahead of you (April 4th): https://www.newtownbee.com/04042020/attending-worship-services-during-a-pandemic/?q=christ%20the%20king (Note: the author was furloughed and in-print production suspended the week the article was due, so you'll have to overlook the few editorial things that slipped through.)

Thanks be to God, we at Christ the King have gathered twice-a-week throughout, Sunday communion has continued - altered but uninterrupted, and all without a single case of CoVid among the faithful attending. I have now had to add a Saturday service to allow safe distancing while more families emerge from the shut-down (also because renovation work in the sanctuary has booted us to the smaller fellowship hall, where distancing is harder).

Among the entire congregation, we have had a few CoVid-related hospitalizations and even a few deaths, but all were cases contracted in managed care by long-time shut-ins. That is not to discount the grief and sorrow that accompany every death; I am only pointing out they had nothing to do with worship attendance.

Private communion continues to provide a handful of mobile but at-risk households a chance to commune in addition to watching the live-streamed/recorded service.

Just thought that snapshot might be helpful... But I wouldn't invite a journalist to report on it - the topic is too toxic politically to expose my members to potential scrutiny and criticism for what is already a fraught decision.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 12:43:46 PM by Rob Morris »