Author Topic: Coronavirus news  (Read 399050 times)

Dan Fienen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1410 on: April 30, 2020, 11:11:57 AM »
We are near Interlochen Center for the Arts near Travers City, Michigan. They have changed their annual summerInterlochen Arts Camp for high school, junior high, and elementary school children into an online program of instruction.
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Dave Benke

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1411 on: April 30, 2020, 12:20:43 PM »
For those of you in Brooklyn/Queens:   What is your take on Mayor DiBlasio's strong words to the Jewish community following the Funeral of a Rabbi in Williamsburg?

See a bunch of posts on the last page on that topic.  The Jewish voting block in NYC in general and in Brooklyn in particular is mega-strong.  What they call the "ultra-orthodox" are the Hasids.  This was a Hasid funeral with 2500 people basically on one city block.  The tightness of their knit is well-known, and their susceptibility to disease spread is also well-known from various  and sundry health outbreaks in the past prior to covid.  The "Jewish community" of several million are at 90% physical distancing compliance.  This group is where the 10% do what they do. 

I personally don't think it's wise to either lump everyone in the Jewish community together, or to use this as a sign of religious intolerance and bigotry against religious assemblies.  The usual excuse is that they didn't have the elderly out there, only the younger (mostly) men.  But of course, that holds no water, when the young go home and infect their elders. 

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Steven W Bohler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1412 on: April 30, 2020, 12:50:19 PM »
For those of you in Brooklyn/Queens:   What is your take on Mayor DiBlasio's strong words to the Jewish community following the Funeral of a Rabbi in Williamsburg?

See a bunch of posts on the last page on that topic.  The Jewish voting block in NYC in general and in Brooklyn in particular is mega-strong.  What they call the "ultra-orthodox" are the Hasids.  This was a Hasid funeral with 2500 people basically on one city block.  The tightness of their knit is well-known, and their susceptibility to disease spread is also well-known from various  and sundry health outbreaks in the past prior to covid.  The "Jewish community" of several million are at 90% physical distancing compliance.  This group is where the 10% do what they do. 

I personally don't think it's wise to either lump everyone in the Jewish community together, or to use this as a sign of religious intolerance and bigotry against religious assemblies.  The usual excuse is that they didn't have the elderly out there, only the younger (mostly) men.  But of course, that holds no water, when the young go home and infect their elders. 

Dave Benke

Do we know numbers/percentages of Hasidic deaths as compared with others in NYC?

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1413 on: April 30, 2020, 01:14:56 PM »
For those of you in Brooklyn/Queens:   What is your take on Mayor DiBlasio's strong words to the Jewish community following the Funeral of a Rabbi in Williamsburg?

See a bunch of posts on the last page on that topic.  The Jewish voting block in NYC in general and in Brooklyn in particular is mega-strong.  What they call the "ultra-orthodox" are the Hasids.  This was a Hasid funeral with 2500 people basically on one city block.  The tightness of their knit is well-known, and their susceptibility to disease spread is also well-known from various  and sundry health outbreaks in the past prior to covid.  The "Jewish community" of several million are at 90% physical distancing compliance.  This group is where the 10% do what they do. 

I personally don't think it's wise to either lump everyone in the Jewish community together, or to use this as a sign of religious intolerance and bigotry against religious assemblies.  The usual excuse is that they didn't have the elderly out there, only the younger (mostly) men.  But of course, that holds no water, when the young go home and infect their elders. 


It's like lumping all Lutherans (or all Christians) together as one group. There are significant differences between denominations - even those with the same history and confessions.
"The church had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Dave Benke

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1414 on: April 30, 2020, 01:19:53 PM »
For those of you in Brooklyn/Queens:   What is your take on Mayor DiBlasio's strong words to the Jewish community following the Funeral of a Rabbi in Williamsburg?

See a bunch of posts on the last page on that topic.  The Jewish voting block in NYC in general and in Brooklyn in particular is mega-strong.  What they call the "ultra-orthodox" are the Hasids.  This was a Hasid funeral with 2500 people basically on one city block.  The tightness of their knit is well-known, and their susceptibility to disease spread is also well-known from various  and sundry health outbreaks in the past prior to covid.  The "Jewish community" of several million are at 90% physical distancing compliance.  This group is where the 10% do what they do. 

I personally don't think it's wise to either lump everyone in the Jewish community together, or to use this as a sign of religious intolerance and bigotry against religious assemblies.  The usual excuse is that they didn't have the elderly out there, only the younger (mostly) men.  But of course, that holds no water, when the young go home and infect their elders. 

Dave Benke

Do we know numbers/percentages of Hasidic deaths as compared with others in NYC?

We know how the other flu and measles, for two examples, have run through the Hasidic community way, way above the general population, partly because they refuse inoculation/immunization as a group and partly because they live in very densely populated neighborhoods, with really large family groups.  (A great-grandmother who died in one of their communities was in direct lineage of 2000 people at the time of her death, for example)   I don't know if corona death stats are being kept by religion; that would be a good question anyway.  The metrics mostly discussed are age and race, and the folks I'm burying although not all old are all non-white, black or Hispanic. 

Dave Benke


John_Hannah

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1415 on: May 01, 2020, 07:53:47 AM »
David Brooks today. Irenic.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/30/opinion/coronavirus-unity.html

Alleluia! Christ is risen!  JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

Dave Benke

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1416 on: May 01, 2020, 08:43:34 AM »
David Brooks today. Irenic.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/30/opinion/coronavirus-unity.html

Alleluia! Christ is risen!  JOHN

I just had finished reading this article on an actual sheet of paper, being one of the last of the Mohicans to receive home delivery of the NYTimes.  "Rippers" and "Weavers" is a great descriptive.  The story here on the ground is of overwhelming unity in thanking, and thanking God for, those on the front lines; of continuing to be diligent in physical distancing and masks/gloves; in waiting until the data show it's safe to be out and about; in finding ways to stay in touch with those we love; in bearing with those who are suffering from loss of jobs/economic security; in supporting governmental agencies and leaders who build and provide some kinds of safety nets; in praying for treatment and vaccines. 

What was heartening to me was to read that these are not just local but national and even global sentiments of unity and support.  Weavers weaving.

Dave Benke

John_Hannah

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1417 on: May 01, 2020, 08:51:15 AM »
David Brooks today. Irenic.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/30/opinion/coronavirus-unity.html

Alleluia! Christ is risen!  JOHN

I just had finished reading this article on an actual sheet of paper, being one of the last of the Mohicans to receive home delivery of the NYTimes.  "Rippers" and "Weavers" is a great descriptive.  The story here on the ground is of overwhelming unity in thanking, and thanking God for, those on the front lines; of continuing to be diligent in physical distancing and masks/gloves; in waiting until the data show it's safe to be out and about; in finding ways to stay in touch with those we love; in bearing with those who are suffering from loss of jobs/economic security; in supporting governmental agencies and leaders who build and provide some kinds of safety nets; in praying for treatment and vaccines. 

What was heartening to me was to read that these are not just local but national and even global sentiments of unity and support.  Weavers weaving.

Dave Benke

Thanks be to God for the Weavers, indeed.

(I'm also one of the last of the Mohicans getting home delivery of hard copy. On top of that, Lorna, my wife, grew up with the Mohicans on their Reservation in Wisconsin where her father was missionary.)   :)

Alleluia! Christ is risen!  JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

mariemeyer

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1418 on: May 01, 2020, 10:25:40 AM »


Brooks article was the first Bill and I read this morning. Speaking as a seamstress, the worst part of sewing is having to rip put stitches.  The seams are never quite as smooth.  Better to sew or weave carefully and not have to rip seams.   

What might the Brooks article say to the Christians who post here?  Are we rippers or weavers?

Marie Meyer

Eileen Smith

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1419 on: May 01, 2020, 12:21:46 PM »


Brooks article was the first Bill and I read this morning. Speaking as a seamstress, the worst part of sewing is having to rip put stitches.  The seams are never quite as smooth.  Better to sew or weave carefully and not have to rip seams.   

What might the Brooks article say to the Christians who post here?  Are we rippers or weavers?

Marie Meyer

Like you, Brooks article are always my first stop when reading the Times.  Two things struck me about this article.   To your question, although perhaps rhetorical, are we both - at times rippers and at time weavers.  I find that the last few months have produced more rippers than sewers given the circumstances we are living under.  We are rippers of those politicians, for example, that we have no tolerance for; in fact that intolerance has grown. 

The one piece of the article that was difficult to read was that we're not disagreeing, we are hating..  It is difficult at best to consider ourselves people who hate.  It goes against the depths of our faith.  "Not I Lord." And yet as one listens to the rhetoric one cannot deny the truth of his statement an I am grateful for his rays of hope. But I do agree that this sense of hatred is a mirage.

I have wondered how the pandemic has affected members of this forum, especially those called and entrusted with the spiritual care of their members, clergy who cannot visit members or console one dying in a hospital, or hold a church service.  As one who gives care how difficult is it to receive -- to ask -- for care?

I digressed as I'm brought back to the statement, "we're not disagreeing, we are hating."  Have our relationships been affected in any negative way?  Have we turned more into sewers than weavers on this forum?  I have found the rhetoric ramped up at times that I need to take mental health breaks. 

This will not 'end' one day and the next day all will be well.  We will live with the fallout for years.  My young niece who lives alone in Queens NY had Covid.  She was in isolation.  It was a fairly mild case but for her it was difficult. She would call during the night, "Aunt Eileen I'm scared. What if I can't breathe and I'm alone?"  It will take this young girl quite some time to work through her fears and her feelings are globally amplified. 

I pray we think of the stories - of those who died, of those putting their lives on the line, of those volunteering in very creative ways, those donating and that this inspires us to be sewers - for isn't that what we're called to do?

Thanks for posting, Marie.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1420 on: May 01, 2020, 12:53:07 PM »
Anyone who sews anything is, I would guess, is sometimes a cutter/ripper and other times a mender/weaver. If you just weave things together, you end up with nothing recognizable. The key is knowing when and where to do which. In a time of crisis, the normal thing to do is come together, united behind the titular leader. That didn't happen in this case. People chose to rip the one in charge on the grounds that his previous actions rendered them incapable of rallying to him. He chose to respond in kind to being ripped, as is his wont. But the simple and inescapable fact is that identifying rippers and weavers is itself an act of ripping, not weaving.

J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1421 on: May 01, 2020, 01:12:03 PM »
There is merely a iota of difference between labeling and libeling.
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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1422 on: May 01, 2020, 01:38:47 PM »


Brooks article was the first Bill and I read this morning. Speaking as a seamstress, the worst part of sewing is having to rip put stitches.  The seams are never quite as smooth.  Better to sew or weave carefully and not have to rip seams.   

What might the Brooks article say to the Christians who post here?  Are we rippers or weavers?

Marie Meyer

Like you, Brooks article are always my first stop when reading the Times.  Two things struck me about this article.   To your question, although perhaps rhetorical, are we both - at times rippers and at time weavers.  I find that the last few months have produced more rippers than sewers given the circumstances we are living under.  We are rippers of those politicians, for example, that we have no tolerance for; in fact that intolerance has grown. 

The one piece of the article that was difficult to read was that we're not disagreeing, we are hating..  It is difficult at best to consider ourselves people who hate.  It goes against the depths of our faith.  "Not I Lord." And yet as one listens to the rhetoric one cannot deny the truth of his statement an I am grateful for his rays of hope. But I do agree that this sense of hatred is a mirage.

I have wondered how the pandemic has affected members of this forum, especially those called and entrusted with the spiritual care of their members, clergy who cannot visit members or console one dying in a hospital, or hold a church service.  As one who gives care how difficult is it to receive -- to ask -- for care?

I digressed as I'm brought back to the statement, "we're not disagreeing, we are hating."  Have our relationships been affected in any negative way?  Have we turned more into sewers than weavers on this forum?  I have found the rhetoric ramped up at times that I need to take mental health breaks. 

This will not 'end' one day and the next day all will be well.  We will live with the fallout for years.  My young niece who lives alone in Queens NY had Covid.  She was in isolation.  It was a fairly mild case but for her it was difficult. She would call during the night, "Aunt Eileen I'm scared. What if I can't breathe and I'm alone?"  It will take this young girl quite some time to work through her fears and her feelings are globally amplified. 

I pray we think of the stories - of those who died, of those putting their lives on the line, of those volunteering in very creative ways, those donating and that this inspires us to be sewers - for isn't that what we're called to do?

Thanks for posting, Marie.

As a clergy member of the Forum I can tell you it is difficult to be isolated from my members.  Chance encounters in stores or on the street are valued now more than ever.  I am struggling, right now, with the possibility that I may be required to venture into Chicago from Wisconsin to retrieve my daughter's belongings from her university (I have until May 17).  That will mean an automatic 14 day self-quarantine upon my return.  For the most part it won't entirely disrupt my work, since most of what I do has been relegated to online offerings and phone calls.  But those few who come to me for private communion will have to be put on hold.  I can't do the very thing I am called to do, and something I value greatly, even if I now have to do it under very unusual circumstances (gloved, masked, number limited, social distanced, etc.) My role as chaplain to the city's fire department will also be put on hold for two full weeks.  These front-line responders need all the encouragement they can get. I am sorry that I may have to stay away at the one moment I might be most needed.  My rural fire chief (I am part of two departments) will allow me to respond to emergencies, such as fire calls, mainly because that need overrides the quarantine with limited numbers to respond. 

But as to the positives, I have been pleasantly surprised by people's gratitude for those who serve them.  The other day I got a spontaneous card in the mail from a member.  It read: "Thank you for continuing to provide church services for all of us to watch.  We enjoy the daily devotionals also.  Hope you're all staying healthy!"  Then yesterday a gentleman from the community presented me with some gift cards for our local volunteer fire department. His 1967 high school class was buying them and sharing them with nurses, law enforcement, and other first responders as a way of showing support and gratitude.  It is all encouraging.  Away from state and national politics things look different. We don't have the luxury of debating everything.  We're too busy trying to figure out how to improvise and adapt.
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

Dave Benke

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1423 on: May 01, 2020, 02:09:03 PM »


Brooks article was the first Bill and I read this morning. Speaking as a seamstress, the worst part of sewing is having to rip put stitches.  The seams are never quite as smooth.  Better to sew or weave carefully and not have to rip seams.   

What might the Brooks article say to the Christians who post here?  Are we rippers or weavers?

Marie Meyer

Like you, Brooks article are always my first stop when reading the Times.  Two things struck me about this article.   To your question, although perhaps rhetorical, are we both - at times rippers and at time weavers.  I find that the last few months have produced more rippers than sewers given the circumstances we are living under.  We are rippers of those politicians, for example, that we have no tolerance for; in fact that intolerance has grown. 

The one piece of the article that was difficult to read was that we're not disagreeing, we are hating..  It is difficult at best to consider ourselves people who hate.  It goes against the depths of our faith.  "Not I Lord." And yet as one listens to the rhetoric one cannot deny the truth of his statement an I am grateful for his rays of hope. But I do agree that this sense of hatred is a mirage.

I have wondered how the pandemic has affected members of this forum, especially those called and entrusted with the spiritual care of their members, clergy who cannot visit members or console one dying in a hospital, or hold a church service.  As one who gives care how difficult is it to receive -- to ask -- for care?

I digressed as I'm brought back to the statement, "we're not disagreeing, we are hating."  Have our relationships been affected in any negative way?  Have we turned more into sewers than weavers on this forum?  I have found the rhetoric ramped up at times that I need to take mental health breaks. 

This will not 'end' one day and the next day all will be well.  We will live with the fallout for years.  My young niece who lives alone in Queens NY had Covid.  She was in isolation.  It was a fairly mild case but for her it was difficult. She would call during the night, "Aunt Eileen I'm scared. What if I can't breathe and I'm alone?"  It will take this young girl quite some time to work through her fears and her feelings are globally amplified. 

I pray we think of the stories - of those who died, of those putting their lives on the line, of those volunteering in very creative ways, those donating and that this inspires us to be sewers - for isn't that what we're called to do?

Thanks for posting, Marie.

As a clergy member of the Forum I can tell you it is difficult to be isolated from my members.  Chance encounters in stores or on the street are valued now more than ever.  I am struggling, right now, with the possibility that I may be required to venture into Chicago from Wisconsin to retrieve my daughter's belongings from her university (I have until May 17).  That will mean an automatic 14 day self-quarantine upon my return.  For the most part it won't entirely disrupt my work, since most of what I do has been relegated to online offerings and phone calls.  But those few who come to me for private communion will have to be put on hold.  I can't do the very thing I am called to do, and something I value greatly, even if I now have to do it under very unusual circumstances (gloved, masked, number limited, social distanced, etc.) My role as chaplain to the city's fire department will also be put on hold for two full weeks.  These front-line responders need all the encouragement they can get. I am sorry that I may have to stay away at the one moment I might be most needed.  My rural fire chief (I am part of two departments) will allow me to respond to emergencies, such as fire calls, mainly because that need overrides the quarantine with limited numbers to respond. 

But as to the positives, I have been pleasantly surprised by people's gratitude for those who serve them.  The other day I got a spontaneous card in the mail from a member.  It read: "Thank you for continuing to provide church services for all of us to watch.  We enjoy the daily devotionals also.  Hope you're all staying healthy!"  Then yesterday a gentleman from the community presented me with some gift cards for our local volunteer fire department. His 1967 high school class was buying them and sharing them with nurses, law enforcement, and other first responders as a way of showing support and gratitude.  It is all encouraging.  Away from state and national politics things look different. We don't have the luxury of debating everything.  We're too busy trying to figure out how to improvise and adapt.

Yes, this is the way it is on the ground level.   The ground level here is fraught with a different kind of fear and anxiety, because the virus is all around us and it is deadly in abundance right where we live.  It's fear, it's anxiety, same thing, just at a dramatically amped up level.  There's a ton of gratitude right alongside the anxiety.  And we keep it all in prayer before the throne of our gracious God.

Dave Benke

Dave Benke

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1424 on: May 01, 2020, 02:27:15 PM »
When something cataclysmic happens, a difficulty is that the normal ups and downs of life get stowed in a different compartment somehow.  At our pastoral zoom meeting recently, the online leader went into this in some detail.  So if a person died of natural causes on September 12, 2001, at that person's funeral it might be said, "she did not die in the terror attack on the 11th."  Wait a minute - she died, though.  The mourners are mourning her loss because she's dead, period. 

In this situation, which is going to go on and on as far as I can tell, there are a lot of people with other life issues, health issues, economic issues and needs for prayer and assistance from a pastoral point of view who may NOT have the virus.  Those of us particularly at the epicenter have had so much sickness and death from that cause that we could, pastorally, become weary of dealing with other problems, issues and tribulations.  That can't be us.  We have full service coverage and must keep that in mind for all the faithful and for the entire community.

Dave Benke