Author Topic: Coronavirus news  (Read 617536 times)

Dan Fienen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #375 on: March 16, 2020, 09:39:07 AM »
We have been getting mixed messages from Pres. Trump and his Covid-19 team. Trump has been more optimistic in his statements than our health care system is delivering.  Some of that may be to tamp down panic which is a real threat.


It would have been really helpful if the CDC and other government entities could have started a year ago getting us ready to combat this pandemic. They could have been stockpiling masks and other supplies and preparing a vaccine. So, is this an example of Trump's short sightedness and general incompetence? Well, it also hurt that we didn't know about this until 3 months ago but I suppose only Trump's incompetence prevented him from foreseeing this. ;) From what I've read a major holdup on testing was FDA and CDC rules that prevented  the use of testing not developed through official channels. Trumps fault? That's less clear. But by all means let's not let an opportunity to bash Trump go to waste. The most important thing in this crisis is to use it to blame Trump.
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J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #376 on: March 16, 2020, 10:06:37 AM »
It would have been really helpful if the CDC and other government entities could have started a year ago getting us ready to combat this pandemic.

A decade ago I attended at least two multi day training events sponsored by the PA Department of Health and the Pennsylvania State Police.

Pandemic Flu awareness and planning has been going on for a long time, but "Russian collusion" and Impeachment became the national pastime.
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Coach-Rev

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #377 on: March 16, 2020, 10:31:59 AM »
This is what I searched out this morning, besides identifying that the 18 cases in Nebraska are all in 3 eastern border counties.

The significant factor it appears (besides the risk to older citizens) is the "Reproductive Number."  This is essentially the number of people who will likely get the disease by being in contact with someone who is currently incubating the disease themselves.  To be clear, most diseases like the flu and cold are contagious during the incubation periods, where symptoms are likely not present.  Think of it another way:  it is a measure of how contagious the disease is.

Here are some numbers:
Influenza A or B, RO=1.28
Swine flu (H1N1), RO=1.4-1.6
CoronaVirus, RO=4.1

This would be why schools and other public facilities are shutting down across the state and nation.

I post this only for information.  I will conclude by offering a statement made with our congregation here: 

Quote
STATEMENT ON THE CORONA VIRUS, 3-14-20

There has been a lot of misinformation and downright panic regarding the Corona virus of late. While it is a serious threat, especially to our older and more vulnerable members with compromised immune systems, the highly conflicting information out there doesn't give a clear picture of the real nature of the potential threat. We've been taking precautions in church since the beginning of the year to prevent the spread of the flu, and such measures will continue. As the situation changes day by day, we will continue to monitor and evaluate the need to increase our safety measures.

In essence, continue to use the common sense that this congregation and it's members all share. If you think you've been exposed to anything or are sick, by all means, stay at home and participate with the live stream. If you are concerned due to your own underlying health issues, by all means do the same. We will continue to limit contact in church, but will also continue with our regular services until we must do otherwise. And above all, as the pastor, I will be paying very close attention to my own health, so as not to inadvertently cause the spread of any sort of disease.

Above all, we do not want to give in to fear. Fear is Satan's greatest weapon against us, and no matter what the outcome of COVID-19 will be, God is still fully in control.
"The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." - Abraham Lincoln

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Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #378 on: March 16, 2020, 10:32:44 AM »
Pastor Fienen:
It would have been really helpful if the CDC and other government entities could have started a year ago getting us ready to combat this pandemic. They could have been stockpiling masks and other supplies and preparing a vaccine. So, is this an example of Trump's short sightedness and general incompetence?

Me:
Did you not read that more than a year ago, the White House virtually closed the office in the CDC that was to plan for and deal with pandemics?
Retired ELCA Pastor. Iowa native. Oh, my. How close we were to a situation where many people with guns could’ve killed many members of Congress. The possible result? Martial law and/or Civil War. Thank God some people are still coming forward to tell the truth.

Eugene Crowner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #379 on: March 16, 2020, 10:36:58 AM »
I can vouch for what Pastor Austin much earlier said about being a Swede.

My mother was 100% Swedish, my father 50% Swedish.

My mother's sister was involved in Swedish-American activities for many years.  She lived about 50 freeway miles from me.   When she died, a fellow member (not a Swede) of her church graciously offered to help with cleaning out my aunt's apartment and getting various things where my aunt wanted them to go.

Later when attending a Swedish-American Club meeting honoring the memory of my aunt, the gracious helper came rushing at me with a big embrace, all but scattering the papers she had in her hand.

After the meeting a very Swedish member of the club who knew me through my aunt very quietly said that she had had grown up without all the hugging, had I?  I had to agree, in all my 71 years (at that time) of growing up around Swedes, all the embracing and hugging was new to me.  And, as far as I know, I have not suffered any damage from the lack of it!


Eugene Crowner

Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #380 on: March 16, 2020, 11:15:57 AM »
I had some real adjustments to make when I moved to Europe where I was hugged and kissed, sometimes twice (both cheeks) by almost everyone. Got used to it, learned the protocols.
At the opera last Friday night, a good friend from New Jersey, a lovely young blonde who sang the role of Musetta in La Boheme, came out after curtain call and hugged me. Didn’t mind.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Iowa native. Oh, my. How close we were to a situation where many people with guns could’ve killed many members of Congress. The possible result? Martial law and/or Civil War. Thank God some people are still coming forward to tell the truth.

Richard Johnson

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #381 on: March 16, 2020, 11:22:52 AM »
BTW, one result of all this is a spike in my appreciation for the altar guild. We arrived this morning to find that nothing had been prepared (which we expected), but watching the deacon and I try to find all the things we needed (and remember all the things we needed) would have made for a funny YouTube video. We were pretty clueless. Of course the average Episcopalian altar guild probably has a more complex task than the average Lutheran one, but even so.  ;D
Could you briefly describe how the Episcopalian Eucharist practice is more complex than the average Lutheran one.  Thanks

Oh, just more details, things that typically weren't done by the altar guild at least at my congregation. I'm talking about set up tasks here. So, for instance, the altar guild at Emmanuel deals with putting the gospel book on the altar along with gloves for the assistant who will be carrying it; cruets both of wine and water on the credence table; lavabo bowl and purificators; a groovy case that has hosts separated in slots of varying count, so the deacon can take for consecration only the number needed (45 here today? OK, one group of 25 and two of 10). The altar guild also sets out the vestments needed for the priest, so he doesn't have to go looking for them in the closet. I realize some of these things may be characteristic of some Lutheran congregations as well, but the precision and accuracy with which it is done at Emmanuel is impressive.
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Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #382 on: March 16, 2020, 11:55:00 AM »
I once led a three-day retreat for Episcopalians at a retreat house in Manhattan. Big old house, former convent. Before each service - mass in the morning, vespers/compline at night - I would arrive in the sacristy where an elderly Anglican nun, the sacristan for the house, not only had everything laid out but would hand me each item - amice, alb, cincture, maniple, stole and chasuble. For vespers, surplice and stole. A chart on the wall displayed, in olde Book Of Common Prayer language, the prayers pertaining to each.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2020, 11:56:40 AM by Charles Austin »
Retired ELCA Pastor. Iowa native. Oh, my. How close we were to a situation where many people with guns could’ve killed many members of Congress. The possible result? Martial law and/or Civil War. Thank God some people are still coming forward to tell the truth.

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #383 on: March 16, 2020, 01:10:17 PM »
BTW, one result of all this is a spike in my appreciation for the altar guild. We arrived this morning to find that nothing had been prepared (which we expected), but watching the deacon and I try to find all the things we needed (and remember all the things we needed) would have made for a funny YouTube video. We were pretty clueless. Of course the average Episcopalian altar guild probably has a more complex task than the average Lutheran one, but even so.  ;D
Could you briefly describe how the Episcopalian Eucharist practice is more complex than the average Lutheran one.  Thanks

Oh, just more details, things that typically weren't done by the altar guild at least at my congregation. I'm talking about set up tasks here. So, for instance, the altar guild at Emmanuel deals with putting the gospel book on the altar along with gloves for the assistant who will be carrying it; cruets both of wine and water on the credence table; lavabo bowl and purificators; a groovy case that has hosts separated in slots of varying count, so the deacon can take for consecration only the number needed (45 here today? OK, one group of 25 and two of 10). The altar guild also sets out the vestments needed for the priest, so he doesn't have to go looking for them in the closet. I realize some of these things may be characteristic of some Lutheran congregations as well, but the precision and accuracy with which it is done at Emmanuel is impressive.


Another difference is that should more hosts or wine be needed, the new has to be consecrated. The Use of the Means of Grace does not require an additional consecration should extra elements be needed.


Application 47a       The food needed for the sacramental meal is placed on the table before the Great Thanksgiving. This is done so that the gathered assembly may see the full sign of the food it is to share, and so that we may give thanks and proclaim God’s promise in conjunction with the use of this very bread and wine. Nonetheless, in the rare event that more of either element is needed during distribution, it is not necessary to repeat the words of institution.[1]


[1] A Statement on Communion Practices, 1989, II.C.2.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Richard Johnson

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #384 on: March 16, 2020, 02:02:40 PM »
One rare instance where Use of the Means of Grace got it wrong . . .
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

John_Hannah

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #385 on: March 16, 2020, 02:07:18 PM »
One rare instance where Use of the Means of Grace got it wrong . . .

Yeah, that surprises me. It has been a Lutheran practice for a very long time.

Peace, JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

Steven W Bohler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #386 on: March 16, 2020, 05:33:15 PM »
Pastor Fienen:
It would have been really helpful if the CDC and other government entities could have started a year ago getting us ready to combat this pandemic. They could have been stockpiling masks and other supplies and preparing a vaccine. So, is this an example of Trump's short sightedness and general incompetence?

Me:
Did you not read that more than a year ago, the White House virtually closed the office in the CDC that was to plan for and deal with pandemics?

Read this: https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2020/03/16/washington-post-flip-flop-no-the-trump-white-house-did-not-dissolve-the-pandemic-response-office/


Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #387 on: March 16, 2020, 06:24:15 PM »
Newspapers print the information available at the time and provided by what they consider to be reliable sources. And it appears that The Washington Post published an update and a correction when other information became available. Good for them.
Sometimes you get bad information or information that is mis-used; and have to admit that you got it wrong or gave an improper slant to it. I would be pleased if the White House did this too.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Iowa native. Oh, my. How close we were to a situation where many people with guns could’ve killed many members of Congress. The possible result? Martial law and/or Civil War. Thank God some people are still coming forward to tell the truth.

Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #388 on: March 16, 2020, 06:31:46 PM »
Personal note on the virus:
   I suppose because we are a 250-member community of elderly people, Trillium Woods management today made drastic changes to our life. Our fine dining room and charming pub are closed. We now order in advance from menus more limited than usual and food is delivered to our residences. (This has been possible, but with an extra charge.) Beloved Spouse and I stocked up on soups and other foods for at home preparation.
   All activities and groups are cancelled. Fitness classes are limited to 4 people and will be shorter, but the pool and gym remain open. They plan additional “deep cleaning” and sanitizing of common areas. No “outsiders” may visit. In my external life, rehearsals for both my choruses have been cancelled.
   Beloved Spouse and I will go to parks for walks and fresh air; and we will attend movies if they stay open. (I have about 15 movies on Netflix that we want to see.) The “indoor walk” from our residence to the far end of our building and back is 1.3 miles, so we can do that if weather is bad.
   In New Jersey, our former next-door neighbor and two children across the street are infected along with some others; and virtually the whole town is on lock-down.
   The Trillium Woods changes are grim because the “social” part of our life here will suffer. Groups may gather, but we are advised to limit the size. And it is, of course, clear to those of us in this place that others have it much worse.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Iowa native. Oh, my. How close we were to a situation where many people with guns could’ve killed many members of Congress. The possible result? Martial law and/or Civil War. Thank God some people are still coming forward to tell the truth.

Chuck

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #389 on: March 16, 2020, 07:16:19 PM »
Pastor Fienen:
It would have been really helpful if the CDC and other government entities could have started a year ago getting us ready to combat this pandemic. They could have been stockpiling masks and other supplies and preparing a vaccine. So, is this an example of Trump's short sightedness and general incompetence?

Me:
Did you not read that more than a year ago, the White House virtually closed the office in the CDC that was to plan for and deal with pandemics?

Read this: https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2020/03/16/washington-post-flip-flop-no-the-trump-white-house-did-not-dissolve-the-pandemic-response-office/
Or this:https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/false-claim-about-cdcs-global-anti-pandemic-work/

Chuck Ruthroff

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