Coronavirus news

[Dave Benke]

Here's a link to a zip by zip map of NYC with corona virus cases that are known graphed out by number range and color:  https://newyork.cbslocal.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/14578484/2020/04/covid-19-cases-by-zip.pdf.

The zip in which we reside is in the mid-high range.  The zips in which our parishioners live are all in the ultra high range.  The poorer parts of town have the perfect storm of higher density, populations at risk with underlying conditions, and populations that are less able to socially distance (must use public transportation, must be out and about because they're in no delivery zones, have multiple families in one residence, etc.).  And the testing is simply either not available or not being used due to overload in the health care system.  A parishioner had to go the hospital after being symptomatic in multiple ways.  She was sent home without testing and with a one day supply of tylenol because she wasn't sick unto death, would be more exposed by staying at the hospital, and they didn't have time to do the test.  So - yes, you have the virus; no, we're not keeping you; no, we don't need to test you - you have it; hang in there at home.  This is not abnormal behavior by the hospitals because they're being overrun, and the ambulance/ems workers are watching dying people get ready to die in real time on the way to the hospital. 

And pastoral care has to be done by distance - text, phone, and something live-streaming.  A learning for me is that not real time stuff, like email, is less helpful.  People don't pick it up the way they do What's App or text messaging, no matter what their age.

My advice to those in less affected areas is to get your communications networks set up to go into overdrive.  My entire ministry was face to face high touch loving community in person.  The only thing left is loving community.  All the rest is yesterday's news.

At the same time, spiritual need is an exploding phenomenon.  Our deaconess started a Spiritual Check-Up segment yesterday for a weekly look-in on Facebook or Zoom. Immediate response.  Reading the Word in an interactive format is proving productive not only for insiders, but for those seeking solace and strength in a new way they haven't previously explored, or have discarded somewhere along the way.

Dave Benke

[Steven W Bohler]

One last word, for Pastor Preus:
"Attacking" the Christian faith via evolution only "works" if the Christian faith is based on the cosmology and literal creationism of Genesis.
I don't care if some ideology uses evolution in a Godless way. I don't; and neither do millions and millions of others. If you say the faith depends upon rejecting an evolution which confesses God as creator and rejects the literal historicity of the Genesis creation stories, then we do not believe in the same faith.
But we digress.

Is death a consequence of sin, or is it part of God's intention for His evolutionary scheme?  If the latter, then what's the big deal about death and Christ setting us free from it? 

[Charles Austin]

Again, Pastor Bohler, this is not the place. I made my comment upstream.

[Steven W Bohler]

Again, Pastor Bohler, this is not the place. I made my comment upstream.

Yes, you made your comment here.  That's why I asked my question, drawn from that comment, here.  So, it seems, that this IS the place.

[Coach-Rev]

Here's a link to a zip by zip map of NYC with corona virus cases that are known graphed out by number range and color:  https://newyork.cbslocal.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/14578484/2020/04/covid-19-cases-by-zip.pdf.

The zip in which we reside is in the mid-high range.  The zips in which our parishioners live are all in the ultra high range.  T

Stay safe:  both you and your parishioners.  Prayers ascending from the heartland...

[James J Eivan]

Again, Pastor Bohler, this is not the place. I made my comment upstream.

Yes, you made your comment here.  That's why I asked my question, drawn from that comment, here.  So, it seems, that this IS the place.

It appears that Rev Bohler has found a chink in the theological armor of our progressive correspondent ... and left him speechless.

[Dave Benke]

Here's a link to a zip by zip map of NYC with corona virus cases that are known graphed out by number range and color:  https://newyork.cbslocal.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/14578484/2020/04/covid-19-cases-by-zip.pdf.

The zip in which we reside is in the mid-high range.  The zips in which our parishioners live are all in the ultra high range.  T

Stay safe:  both you and your parishioners.  Prayers ascending from the heartland...

Thanks so much - deeply appreciated!

Dave Benke

[Donald_Kirchner]

No, Charles is confusing this thread with his "reflections about poor me" thread in which it has to remain about him, not the place for anything else.

[Terry W Culler]

One last word, for Pastor Preus:
"Attacking" the Christian faith via evolution only "works" if the Christian faith is based on the cosmology and literal creationism of Genesis.
I don't care if some ideology uses evolution in a Godless way. I don't; and neither do millions and millions of others. If you say the faith depends upon rejecting an evolution which confesses God as creator and rejects the literal historicity of the Genesis creation stories, then we do not believe in the same faith.
But we digress.

Is death a consequence of sin, or is it part of God's intention for His evolutionary scheme?  If the latter, then what's the big deal about death and Christ setting us free from it?

This is where the rubber hits the road with evolution.  There are only a few ways you can believe in sin and in Darwinian evolution.  First, mankind evolved from single celled creatures just as did the bombardier beetle, but God breathed into men a form of His spirit which the finally evolved men and women violated.  Second, you can believe that all creatures lack sin and only mankind is held accountable because mankind alone is capable of knowing right from wrong.  But you still can't answer Pr. Bohler's question with these theses.  Did Jesus need to come to save us from sin, death and the devil?

Also, as to what science is or is not.  The scientific method requires that the seeker after truth to posit a position and then seek to either prove or disprove it.  There are so many examples of creatures which defy Darwinian evolution (see the above mentioned bombardier beetle for example) that it is technically impossible to say that such species change is a fact.  There is literally no evidence of any species which altered sufficiently to be another species altogether.  The examples that are frequently offered are intra-species changes not inter-species.

As to Shuffle Off To Buffalo--I believe that came from the musical 42nd Street.

[RDPreus]

The theory of evolution was not limited solely to the natural sciences, but permeated the popular culture during the 19th century.  In politics and economics (socialism), theology (post-millennialism), and in the breathtakingly naïve trust in man's potential, everything is moving upward!  I think of how WW I brought the bright "American Century" to a close, how the US finally triumphing over the Soviet Empire brought socialism into disrepute, but still the theory of man's ascent from the slime into what we are today persists.

The coronavirus pandemic has brought to mind these words of St. Paul in Romans 8

For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.

The plague the world is enduring at the moment is powerful testimony that the theory of evolution is a myth, a sad and discarded myth in most areas of thought (politics, economics, art, philosophy) but it holds on tight among liberal theologians who really, really want to believe in the upward and onward ascent of their progressive religion.  Meanwhile the creation groans and labors with birth pangs waiting to be redeemed from its bondage to death.

[Charles Austin]

I see you are gracious, as always, Pastor Kirchner 
And so, Pastor Preus, Is the current plague God’s judgment, or is it given by God as part of his intent to take us through this on the way to something new?
Evolution is a fact, whether prompted by biology, or social and/or political developments. In Terms of cosmology and Astrophysics, I faithfully believe it is the means by which God created and continues to create our universe.
But - despite Pastor Preus’ attempt to turn the direction of this thread - we digress.
Other than the evolution of the coronavirus as we begin to attack it with various means, the subject has little place in this thread of discussion.

[Brian Stoffregen]

One last word, for Pastor Preus:
"Attacking" the Christian faith via evolution only "works" if the Christian faith is based on the cosmology and literal creationism of Genesis.
I don't care if some ideology uses evolution in a Godless way. I don't; and neither do millions and millions of others. If you say the faith depends upon rejecting an evolution which confesses God as creator and rejects the literal historicity of the Genesis creation stories, then we do not believe in the same faith.
But we digress.

Is death a consequence of sin, or is it part of God's intention for His evolutionary scheme?  If the latter, then what's the big deal about death and Christ setting us free from it?

Free from death? We all still die. We do not believe that freedom from death means we can handle poisonous snakes and not fear dying; nor drink poison and not die; or gather together and not get Covid-19 and die. What Jesus gives us is the assurance that our deaths do not separate us from God.

[James J Eivan]

Our self appointed moderator introduces evolution as follows  ...

No. Evolution is not a theory. It is science.

Because he is at a loss to defend his statement that evolution is a 'fact' and control the discussion on the theory of evolution,  the self anointed moderator attempts to drop/change the subject.

But - despite Pastor Preus’ attempt to turn the direction of this thread - we digress.Other than the evolution of the coronavirus as we begin to attack it with various means, the subject has little place in this thread of discussion.

If it really has little place for discussion, why introduce the subject?

[Dave Likeness]

The LCMS holds to the Biblical Creationist View.  This is the belief that God created man in
essentially his present form within the last 10,000 years.

The ELCA  holds to the Theistic Evolutionist View.  This is belief that God guided the
evolutionary process of man over millions of years.

Someone has said, "Evolution is the great escape mechanism of modern man whereby
he seeks intellectual justification for escape from personal responsibility to the Creator God."

[Donald_Kirchner]

Is death a consequence of sin, or is it part of God's intention for His evolutionary scheme?  If the latter, then what's the big deal about death and Christ setting us free from it?

Free from death? ... What Jesus gives us is the assurance that our deaths do not separate us from God.

So, you agree with Rev Bohler, that Christ has set us free from death, what the beloved Norman Nagel called "the big D" as opposed to "the little d."

Good.