Author Topic: Coronavirus news  (Read 750243 times)

Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #6390 on: November 01, 2022, 06:52:54 PM »
Do not be intentionally dense. Stop, consider, but then act.  And one may not always be certain of the outcome.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Parishes in Iowa, New York and New Jersey. LCA/LWF staff. Former journalist  Writer for many church publications.

Dan Fienen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #6391 on: November 01, 2022, 07:43:06 PM »
As children coming through war, Peter, or any other personal trauma or disaster might be affected. The pandemic was real. It was a trauma for all of us. Some of us got through it, and some of us got sick, and some of us died. Now those of us were still around, including our children, are going to have to grow up, knowing whatever it is we know and have experienced about this pandemic. It’s a tough thing. But it’s called life.
So, does that mean that the predictable and observed deleterious effects of school closures and isolation should not have been considered when making decisions about schooling in the time of Covid? With the pandemic around, there were no absolutely safe options, the question was not "what can we do to be completely safe with no cost or bad side effects." Such solutions do not exist. Trade offs must be made lest the remedial efforts end up doing more damage than what we protect against. Wouldn't it be a tragedy if in shutting things down more young people die by isolation induced suicide than would have died by Covid.


As usual, Pastor Fienen, your style of “yes/but”, “if/then”, “what if”, analysis paralysis and OTOH would have us in a locked, solid-standstill do nothing.


Do not be intentionally dense. Where do I suggest that action isn't necessary? Even suggesting that the needs of the young people be considered was denounced.

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peter_speckhard

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #6392 on: November 01, 2022, 08:22:23 PM »
As children coming through war, Peter, or any other personal trauma or disaster might be affected. The pandemic was real. It was a trauma for all of us. Some of us got through it, and some of us got sick, and some of us died. Now those of us were still around, including our children, are going to have to grow up, knowing whatever it is we know and have experienced about this pandemic. It’s a tough thing. But it’s called life.
By that logic, it would not be possible to overreact to danger. Every possible effort to achieve safety and security would be justified regardless of long term deleterious effect. The fact is, in many places, and often for partisan reasons, things were done to children that did great harm and offered no benefit. Places that did not harm their children in that way have been proven empirically to have made wiser choices.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2022, 09:11:36 PM by peter_speckhard »

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #6393 on: November 02, 2022, 04:51:23 PM »
"Pastor acquitted after being arrested when police helicopter found church gathering outside during pandemic"

https://www.foxnews.com/world/pastor-acquitted-being-arrested-police-helicopter-found-church-gathering-outside-pandemic?dicbo=v2-0b0ed98c64361f36967034095ff7ecb8

Had it been in Minnesota, one might surmise that Charles ratted him out.   ;)

"Canadian pastor jailed for holding church during COVID welcomes pardon, blasts Trudeau"

https://www.foxnews.com/world/pastor-running-office-welcomes-plan-pardon-covid-offenders-being-jailed-keeping-church-open
« Last Edit: November 02, 2022, 04:55:21 PM by Donald_Kirchner »
Don Kirchner

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Pastor Ken Kimball

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #6394 on: November 02, 2022, 06:52:39 PM »
As usual, Pastor Fienen, your style of “yes/but”, “if/then”, “what if”, analysis paralysis and OTOH would have us in a locked, solid-standstill do nothing.
A couple of thoughts:
First do no harm.  On a great many things, the hysteria-stoked over-reactions of those with power or guarding their power or seeking more power, whether pandemic or climate, often not only fails to help but exacerbates the harms already happening and adds further harms to the mix.
The second is that there is often more wisdom standing athwart history and yelling "Stop" than "Don't just stand there.  Do something!"  The last three years are littered with examples of reactions from the "do something" hysteria--that make things worse.  Then having made bad decisions and policies--the unthinking resistance and refusal to stop doing them.   

Dan Fienen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #6395 on: November 02, 2022, 07:09:05 PM »
Early on, as I recall, President Trump was berated for overreacting to what many were assuring us was just a slightly worse variant of the flu (remember the swine flu epidemic of 1976?) and imposing unnecessary and xenophobic travel restrictions. At least he was doing something, so I guess by of stop over analyzing everything and do something wisdom expressed here, he was correct to take action. (Interestingly, when Pres. Biden imposed travel restrictions to try to contain a Covid variant he was not criticized as Biden had done Trump.) 
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J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #6396 on: November 03, 2022, 12:34:26 AM »
Early on, as I recall, President Trump was berated for overreacting to what many were assuring us was just a slightly worse variant of the flu (remember the swine flu epidemic of 1976?) and imposing unnecessary and xenophobic travel restrictions

I remember the Hong Kong Flu and the Swine Flu.

And I also remember that early on NY cheerleaders from the "other tribe" (Coumo and DiBlasio) were urging New Yorkers to visit Chinatown and "hug a Chinaman"....the latter a phrase which in this error of "political correctness" should have been denounced as firmly as use of the "N-word".
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James S. Rustad

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #6397 on: November 27, 2022, 06:02:35 PM »
Earlier in this thread I mentioned in passing that mRNA technology would likely be used in other vaccines.  Well, here comes the first one.

A universal flu vaccine that protects against all strains of the virus could be available in the next two years, according to a leading scientist.

An experimental vaccine based on the same mRNA technology used in the highly successful Covid jabs was found to protect mice and ferrets against severe influenza, paving the way for clinical trials in humans.

Prof John Oxford, a virologist at Queen Mary University in London, who was not involved in the work, said the vaccine developed at the University of Pennsylvania could be ready for use the winter after next.

Robert Johnson

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #6398 on: December 06, 2022, 06:17:09 PM »
The best part of that excerpt was the phrase "highly successful Covid jabs".

I guess success is measured by how many people were bullied into getting the shots.

On the level of "stops the disease" or "prevents infection" there was little success.

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #6399 on: December 06, 2022, 07:09:41 PM »
The best part of that excerpt was the phrase "highly successful Covid jabs".

I guess success is measured by how many people were bullied into getting the shots.

On the level of "stops the disease" or "prevents infection" there was little success.


If the shots prevented hospitalizations and deaths, they were a success. As I recall, once the vaccines were given, most of the people who died from COVID were unvaccinated.
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Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #6400 on: December 06, 2022, 07:14:10 PM »
The shots prevented hospitalizations and deaths. That is a fact.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Parishes in Iowa, New York and New Jersey. LCA/LWF staff. Former journalist  Writer for many church publications.

Steven W Bohler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #6401 on: December 07, 2022, 09:26:10 AM »
The best part of that excerpt was the phrase "highly successful Covid jabs".

I guess success is measured by how many people were bullied into getting the shots.

On the level of "stops the disease" or "prevents infection" there was little success.


If the shots prevented hospitalizations and deaths, they were a success. As I recall, once the vaccines were given, most of the people who died from COVID were unvaccinated.

Not any more.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/11/23/vaccinated-people-now-make-up-majority-covid-deaths/

Steven W Bohler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #6402 on: December 07, 2022, 09:26:56 AM »
The shots prevented hospitalizations and deaths. That is a fact.

How do you prove a negative?  Other than just saying so, I mean.

James S. Rustad

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #6403 on: December 07, 2022, 10:33:08 AM »
The best part of that excerpt was the phrase "highly successful Covid jabs".

I guess success is measured by how many people were bullied into getting the shots.

On the level of "stops the disease" or "prevents infection" there was little success.

If the shots prevented hospitalizations and deaths, they were a success. As I recall, once the vaccines were given, most of the people who died from COVID were unvaccinated.

Not any more.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/11/23/vaccinated-people-now-make-up-majority-covid-deaths/

Yes, the article says what you say it does.  It also goes further to explain why that happened.  One piece is that most Americans are now vaccinated, so even a low percentage of them dying of COVID drives up the share of deaths.  The other important section of the explanation is below.

Let?s take a look at deaths in August, when the highly contagious BA.5 variant reached its peak:
  • That month, unvaccinated people aged 6 months and older died at about six times the rate of those who had received their primary series of shots.
  • People with one booster dose were even better protected. Unvaccinated people over the age of 5 had about 8 times the risk of dying from a coronavirus infection than those who received a booster shot.
  • Among individuals who were eligible to receive additional booster shots, the gap is even more striking. Unvaccinated people 50 and up had 12 times the risk of dying from covid-19 than adults the same age with two or more booster doses.

Given that some mutated forms of the virus are able to partially overcome the immunity from the vaccine, it's important to keep up on the boosters.  If you don't, you're going to be at higher risk of infection.

Steven W Bohler

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