Author Topic: Coronavirus news  (Read 654177 times)

Robert Johnson

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #6285 on: June 28, 2022, 08:02:33 PM »
It was originally presented as if it were the equivalent of the polio vaccine, giving you total and permanent immunity from Covid.

This was a lie.

Matt Hummel

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #6286 on: June 28, 2022, 11:05:04 PM »
I mean I am vaxed & boosted, as are most of the folks I know. And in that population, I know a number of Covid cases. Some folks are on bout 3. So there is part of me doing the "what for?"
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Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #6287 on: June 28, 2022, 11:42:46 PM »
Vaccinated means that if you get sick you are less likely to be hospitalized and less likely to die.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Parishes in Iowa, Nw York and New Jersey. LCA and LWF staff. Former journalist. Now retired, living in Minneapolis. Preaching and presiding for Episcopalians next Sunday.

J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #6288 on: June 29, 2022, 12:13:09 AM »
Vaccinated means that if you get sick you are less likely to be hospitalized and less likely to die.

Aye.

I have had more alleged "exposures" than I care to count since October 2021.   

None seemed worthy of taking an unreliable (aka likely to be a false positive or false negative "test") and none resulted in more than a few hours of nasal congestion, a single cough on arising, or some other mild bodily reaction which to the paranoid might have been construed as "symptomatic". 

In every case, gone and done with in ≤48 hours.

So far as I am concerned, every "exposure" makes me stronger.

The immune system, like the skeletal muscular system, require regular exercise.
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peter_speckhard

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #6289 on: June 29, 2022, 12:17:15 AM »
The point is simply that what was happening and what we were told was happening were not the same thing, and anyone who pointed that out was derided, cancelled, mocked, and otherwise shunned. People who didn't want the vaccine lost their jobs, and now we find out it was because of how they were hoping the vaccine might work, not how they knew it worked.

Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #6290 on: June 29, 2022, 03:51:07 AM »
“They” never told us the vaccine would completely prevent us from getting the virus.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Parishes in Iowa, Nw York and New Jersey. LCA and LWF staff. Former journalist. Now retired, living in Minneapolis. Preaching and presiding for Episcopalians next Sunday.

Matt Hummel

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #6291 on: June 29, 2022, 07:11:40 AM »
“They” never told us the vaccine would completely prevent us from getting the virus.

Charles if car brakes worked as well as the Covid vaxx, I wouldn’t want to drive. They severely over promised efficacy.
Matt Hummel


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Dan Fienen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #6292 on: June 29, 2022, 07:23:34 AM »
Charles, isn't the effectiveness of the efforts of Donald Trump and his administration's efforts to combat Covid by developing vaccines (for which efforts he was scorned at the time) marvelous?
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peter_speckhard

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #6293 on: June 29, 2022, 08:49:30 AM »
“They” never told us the vaccine would completely prevent us from getting the virus.
They demanded everyone get one and ridiculed anyone who questioned the science behind the demand, and we now know that the science behind the demand involved a lot of hope and guesswork.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #6294 on: June 29, 2022, 08:56:07 AM »
Last August the Defense Secretary said: "To defend this Nation, we need a healthy and ready force. After careful consultation with medical experts and military leadership, and with the support of the President, I have determined that mandatory vaccination against coronavirus disease…is necessary to protect the Force and defend the American people."

This week anywhere from 14,000 to 40,000 Army National Guard troops will meet the deadline without complying with the mandatory vaccine, and the lower number, 14k, is the number of those who have said they will accept termination rather than comply. In other words, the Army could be literally decimated by the Defense Secretary in order "to protect the Force and defend the American people."

Jim Butler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #6295 on: June 29, 2022, 10:08:48 AM »
“They” never told us the vaccine would completely prevent us from getting the virus.

In a CNN town hall in July 2021, President Biden said, "You’re not going to — you’re not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations."

On 7 October 2021, he stated, "We’re making sure healthcare workers are vaccinated, because if you seek care at a healthcare facility, you should have the certainty that the pro- — the people providing that care are protected from COVID and cannot spread it to you."

Here he makes two claims:

1) Vaccinated people are "protected from COVID." Now, it might only be me, but I think the word "protected" gives the impression that the vaccine "completely prevent[s ] us from getting the virus."

2) If one is vaccinated, then one "cannot spread [the virus]."

I don't know if "they" claimed that the vaccine would completely prevent infection, but President Biden clearly did.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2022, 10:15:28 AM by Jim Butler »
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James S. Rustad

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #6296 on: June 29, 2022, 10:15:52 AM »
For both the Pfizer-BioNTech and the Moderna vaccines, the data from the CDC always indicated that the vaccines were not perfect and you could still be infected with SARS-CoV-2 after you were vaccinated.  I don't recall the CDC or the vaccine companies ever claiming that the vaccine was permanent - I even remember very early discussion of how likely it was that it would or would not be.

On the other hand, if you listened uncritically to politicians or the media, you would have quickly gotten the impression that the vaccines were nearly perfect.

The body of evidence for the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine was primarily informed by one large, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled Phase II/III clinical trial that enrolled >43,000 participants (median age = 52 years, range = 16–91 years) (5,6). Interim findings from this clinical trial, using data from participants with a median of 2 months of follow-up, indicate that the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine was 95.0% effective (95% confidence interval = 90.3%–97.6%) in preventing symptomatic laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 in persons without evidence of previous SARS-CoV-2 infection. Consistent high efficacy (≥92%) was observed across age, sex, race, and ethnicity categories and among persons with underlying medical conditions. Efficacy was similarly high in a secondary analysis including participants both with or without evidence of previous SARS-CoV-2 infection.Although numbers of observed hospitalizations and deaths were low, the available data were consistent with reduced risk for these severe outcomes among vaccinated persons compared with that among placebo recipients.

The body of evidence for the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine was primarily informed by one large, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled Phase III clinical trial that enrolled approximately 30,000 participants aged 18–95 years (median = 52 years) (6–9). Interim findings from this clinical trial, using data from participants with a median of 2 months of follow-up, indicate that the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine efficacy after 2 doses was 94.1% (95% confidence interval = 89.3%–96.8%) in preventing symptomatic, laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 among persons without evidence of previous SARS-CoV-2 infection, which was the primary study endpoint. High efficacy (≥86%) was observed across age, sex, race, and ethnicity categories and among persons with underlying medical conditions. Ten hospitalizations due to COVID-19 were documented; nine in the placebo group and one in the vaccine group (9). Preliminary data suggest that the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine might also provide some protection against asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection (7).

Oops.  Edited because I forgot the link on the second quote.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2022, 10:21:17 AM by James S. Rustad »

Terry W Culler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #6297 on: June 29, 2022, 10:24:38 AM »
“They” never told us the vaccine would completely prevent us from getting the virus.

In a CNN town hall in July 2021, President Biden said, "You’re not going to — you’re not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations."

On 7 October 2021, he stated, "We’re making sure healthcare workers are vaccinated, because if you seek care at a healthcare facility, you should have the certainty that the pro- — the people providing that care are protected from COVID and cannot spread it to you."

Here he makes two claims:

1) Vaccinated people are "protected from COVID." Now, it might only be me, but I think the word "protected" gives the impression that the vaccine "completely prevent[s ] us from getting the virus."

2) If one is vaccinated, then one "cannot spread [the virus]."

I don't know if "they" claimed that the vaccine would completely prevent infection, but President Biden clearly did.


Not good proof texts--we all know that practically everything the President says without a script in his hand is either a lie or just plain dumb
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MaddogLutheran

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #6298 on: June 29, 2022, 11:00:50 AM »
For both the Pfizer-BioNTech and the Moderna vaccines, the data from the CDC always indicated that the vaccines were not perfect and you could still be infected with SARS-CoV-2 after you were vaccinated.  I don't recall the CDC or the vaccine companies ever claiming that the vaccine was permanent - I even remember very early discussion of how likely it was that it would or would not be.

On the other hand, if you listened uncritically to politicians or the media, you would have quickly gotten the impression that the vaccines were nearly perfect.

The body of evidence for the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine was primarily informed by one large, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled Phase II/III clinical trial that enrolled >43,000 participants (median age = 52 years, range = 16–91 years) (5,6). Interim findings from this clinical trial, using data from participants with a median of 2 months of follow-up, indicate that the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine was 95.0% effective (95% confidence interval = 90.3%–97.6%) in preventing symptomatic laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 in persons without evidence of previous SARS-CoV-2 infection. Consistent high efficacy (≥92%) was observed across age, sex, race, and ethnicity categories and among persons with underlying medical conditions. Efficacy was similarly high in a secondary analysis including participants both with or without evidence of previous SARS-CoV-2 infection.Although numbers of observed hospitalizations and deaths were low, the available data were consistent with reduced risk for these severe outcomes among vaccinated persons compared with that among placebo recipients.

The body of evidence for the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine was primarily informed by one large, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled Phase III clinical trial that enrolled approximately 30,000 participants aged 18–95 years (median = 52 years) (6–9). Interim findings from this clinical trial, using data from participants with a median of 2 months of follow-up, indicate that the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine efficacy after 2 doses was 94.1% (95% confidence interval = 89.3%–96.8%) in preventing symptomatic, laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 among persons without evidence of previous SARS-CoV-2 infection, which was the primary study endpoint. High efficacy (≥86%) was observed across age, sex, race, and ethnicity categories and among persons with underlying medical conditions. Ten hospitalizations due to COVID-19 were documented; nine in the placebo group and one in the vaccine group (9). Preliminary data suggest that the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine might also provide some protection against asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection (7).
Yes.  And social media companies, and other entities, used this public perception as justification to censor/silence anyone who pointed this out, labeling them as anti-science.

Yesterday NPR Morning Edition did a story about the dilemma about what to do about the formula for the next booster, what version of the virus to target.  Should it be the current dominant Omicron strain alone?  Both Omicron and the original virus in a dual delivery form?  Or maybe take a guess, like they do with the flu, at future Omicron mutations?

I've heard weeks ago that part of their hesitation was concern for the public health messaging changing the formulation might create.  Will some people lose trust in the vaccine if the formula changes?  Will some become confused or afraid?  But the science is settled!

I'm on the other side of that thinking:  I am not interested in taking another booster of the same formulation, in light of the Omicron mutations that have become dominant.  To my understanding, they will be almost useless.  But it seems like the public health braintrust may be more interested in holding out hope that the remaining population will agree to take the original vaccine.  I don't understand the goal here, as well as not understanding the effectiveness of another booster against future Omicron.  Of course they cannot talk about that publicly because they fear confusing the general public, so I will not be better informed and less skeptical.  Unfortunately they've made their bed with prior misinformation, now we are all reaping the consequences.  Yet we must continue to trust them without question.  YMMV
« Last Edit: June 29, 2022, 11:20:16 AM by MaddogLutheran »
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David Garner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #6299 on: June 29, 2022, 12:02:15 PM »
For both the Pfizer-BioNTech and the Moderna vaccines, the data from the CDC always indicated that the vaccines were not perfect and you could still be infected with SARS-CoV-2 after you were vaccinated.  I don't recall the CDC or the vaccine companies ever claiming that the vaccine was permanent - I even remember very early discussion of how likely it was that it would or would not be.

On the other hand, if you listened uncritically to politicians or the media, you would have quickly gotten the impression that the vaccines were nearly perfect.

The body of evidence for the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine was primarily informed by one large, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled Phase II/III clinical trial that enrolled >43,000 participants (median age = 52 years, range = 16–91 years) (5,6). Interim findings from this clinical trial, using data from participants with a median of 2 months of follow-up, indicate that the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine was 95.0% effective (95% confidence interval = 90.3%–97.6%) in preventing symptomatic laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 in persons without evidence of previous SARS-CoV-2 infection. Consistent high efficacy (≥92%) was observed across age, sex, race, and ethnicity categories and among persons with underlying medical conditions. Efficacy was similarly high in a secondary analysis including participants both with or without evidence of previous SARS-CoV-2 infection.Although numbers of observed hospitalizations and deaths were low, the available data were consistent with reduced risk for these severe outcomes among vaccinated persons compared with that among placebo recipients.

The body of evidence for the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine was primarily informed by one large, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled Phase III clinical trial that enrolled approximately 30,000 participants aged 18–95 years (median = 52 years) (6–9). Interim findings from this clinical trial, using data from participants with a median of 2 months of follow-up, indicate that the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine efficacy after 2 doses was 94.1% (95% confidence interval = 89.3%–96.8%) in preventing symptomatic, laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 among persons without evidence of previous SARS-CoV-2 infection, which was the primary study endpoint. High efficacy (≥86%) was observed across age, sex, race, and ethnicity categories and among persons with underlying medical conditions. Ten hospitalizations due to COVID-19 were documented; nine in the placebo group and one in the vaccine group (9). Preliminary data suggest that the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine might also provide some protection against asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection (7).
Yes.  And social media companies, and other entities, used this public perception as justification to censor/silence anyone who pointed this out, labeling them as anti-science.

Yesterday NPR Morning Edition did a story about the dilemma about what to do about the formula for the next booster, what version of the virus to target.  Should it be the current dominant Omicron strain alone?  Both Omicron and the original virus in a dual delivery form?  Or maybe take a guess, like they do with the flu, at future Omicron mutations?

I've heard weeks ago that part of their hesitation was concern for the public health messaging changing the formulation might create.  Will some people lose trust in the vaccine if the formula changes?  Will some become confused or afraid?  But the science is settled!

I'm on the other side of that thinking:  I am not interested in taking another booster of the same formulation, in light of the Omicron mutations that have become dominant.  To my understanding, they will be almost useless.  But it seems like the public health braintrust may be more interested in holding out hope that the remaining population will agree to take the original vaccine.  I don't understand the goal here, as well as not understanding the effectiveness of another booster against future Omicron.  Of course they cannot talk about that publicly because they fear confusing the general public, so I will not be better informed and less skeptical.  Unfortunately they've made their bed with prior misinformation, now we are all reaping the consequences.  Yet we must continue to trust them without question.  YMMV

If you understand the math, it works out:

"We are good people

Good people do (and say) good things

Therefore, when we do (or say), things, they are good"
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