Author Topic: Coronavirus news  (Read 513546 times)

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5595 on: November 27, 2021, 02:16:28 PM »
https://notthebee.com/article/germany-is-now-requiring-the-covid-vax-in-order-to-be-euthanized

To be fair, COVID can kill you, so you don't want to catch a deadly disease if you're dying.

To be fair the other direction, if you're going to get euthanized anyway, who cares what chemical you're putting in your body?


To be fair, we're all gonna die some day. So why should we care what garbage we might eat, or what drugs (legal and illegal) we might put into our bodies, or what reckless behaviors we might engage in?
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

David Garner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5596 on: November 27, 2021, 02:20:28 PM »
https://notthebee.com/article/germany-is-now-requiring-the-covid-vax-in-order-to-be-euthanized

To be fair, COVID can kill you, so you don't want to catch a deadly disease if you're dying.

To be fair the other direction, if you're going to get euthanized anyway, who cares what chemical you're putting in your body?


To be fair, we're all gonna die some day. So why should we care what garbage we might eat, or what drugs (legal and illegal) we might put into our bodies, or what reckless behaviors we might engage in?

Indeed.  There is no difference whatsoever in eating right and exercising when we're all going to die eventually, and that's exactly the same as requiring a vaccine right now before having a doctor kill you today.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

Steven W Bohler

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Dave Benke

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5598 on: November 27, 2021, 08:01:15 PM »
A factor that should be mentioned is that Jonas Salk was a hero to virtually the entire country.  He didn't patent the vaccine or take any profit from it.  In the 50s Midwest, he was something we would by nature not have trusted.  He was a New York City Jew.  Not on the radar, at least not in a positive way.  But our parents had us give thanks to God at the dinner table for Dr. Salk, and for his vaccine.

Dr. Salk was a researcher at the University of Pittsburgh. I was in grade school in the early 1950s in western Pennsylvania.

I remember getting gamma globulin shots at school as a polio preventative. They were massive; I was a 2nd grader, and I got 2 big vials. They hurt, and a lot of kids fainted. I now know that was a clinical trial that basically failed.

Shortly thereafter, we got the Salk vaccine, also at school. We got it so early I am fairly sure we were guinea pigs for that treatment, too. (We were less than a hundred miles from Pittsburgh, so basically local for that purpose.)

Two things:
 
  • Polio was such a horrible disease people were highly motivated to prevent it.
  • In the early 1950s, there was a lot of basic trust in authorities. Part of it was the successful conclusion to World War 2, and part of it was because the public just didn't have much information about government screw-ups.

But the Salk vaccine worked, and the world became a better place quickly.

Just saw this - it turns out Elvis was enlisted in the cause of getting vaccinated against polio:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfKMJ99CLTM.

I caused one of the greatest usages of gamma globulin in New York City back in the day, and my parishioners let me know how much they loved that shot.  It's a long story, with a lot of side stories, but the boiled down version is that I contracted infectious hepatitis, and as was my custom, received the Lord's Supper at the beginning of the Eucharist.  In those days it was common cup only, so around 150 people followed me, commenting after the service on my yellowish complexion. I eventually went to the hospital, and they all received the gamma globulin as a preventative measure.  Eventually I got better, none of them were infected, and life went on.  But they certainly remembered their gamma globulin shot. 

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peter_speckhard

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5599 on: November 27, 2021, 08:11:36 PM »
I just don't think the polio comparison really makes sense. There is a reason people don't think of getting Covid the way they think of getting polio. When a football player goes on the Covid list, nobody worries about his health; they know he'll be fine. They worry about his backup. That isn't at all like hearing someone had polio. Plus, that vaccine ended it. People didn't keep getting polio after they were vaccinated. So the whole tenor of the thing wasn't parallel.

And if the vaccine was mandated, why did they have to enlist Elvis to promote it?

jebutler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5600 on: November 27, 2021, 11:10:04 PM »
Again, Peter, if it turns out this is not a dangerous situation, what is being done is difficult but not a catastrophe. On the other hand, if what is being done turns out to be the smartest, safest thing to do,  it would limit the spread of the virus and everybody wins.
BTW, and folks do not like to hear me say this, but better that action than what was done by your guy, now The Ex, at the beginning of the pandemic, which was, in effect, nothing.

I know you get a bit forgetful, Your Humbleness, but when SARS-CoV-2 was first identified as a serious issue, one of the first things that the Trump Administration did was ban travel to and from China (23 Feb 2020) and later European countries (22 March 2020). They also focused on the border with Mexico since people coming in illegally could easily transmit the virus.

What was the response of one Joseph P. Biden to this announcement? He tweeted, "Banning all travel from Europe — or any other part of the world — will not stop [the coronavirus]." So, what you now declare to be the "smartest, safest thing to do", the man you voted for said was a useless step. Of course, Mr. Biden has never said that he was wrong in his criticism, but I'm going to be charitable and assume actions speak louder than words.

Before I forget it, many of your journalistic colleagues called Mr. Trump "xenophobic" for now doing what you say is the "smartest, safest thing to do." Were your colleagues wrong?

If the omicron variant is as transmissible as some scientists argue and if Mr. Biden's travel ban is the ""smartest, safest thing to do", then why wait until tomorrow for the ban to take effect? Is the variant taking Thanksgiving vacation on Nantucket like the President?

In short, in the face of the beginning of the virus and now in the face of this new variant, both Mr. Trump and Mr. Biden reacted in the same way. Your colleagues castigated Mr. Trump and applaud Mr. Biden for doing the very same thing. Why is this? It seems to me that if one is wrong, then both are wrong. And if one is right, then both are right. Or is consistency in thought not considered important in journalism? (My view was that both made the right decision, but I'm not a wise nor humble correspondent like you claim to be.)

Speaking of consistency, I wonder if your humble wisdom can please explain to me why forest rangers who spend their days outside must be vaccinated but airplane passengers who have the chance to infect hundreds in a metal tube do not? That makes absolutely no sense to me.

In closing, I will leave you with another Biden tweet from 30 October 2020, "I'm not going to shut down the countryI'm not going to shut down the economy. I'm going to shut down the virus." Mr. Biden has been President for 10 months. In that time, the death toll in America has surpassed the total of the Trump administration. Why hasn't Mr. Biden "shut down the virus" as he clearly stated he would do?

« Last Edit: November 28, 2021, 07:27:26 AM by jebutler »
The truth we preach is not an abstract thing. The truth is a Person. The goodness we preach is not an ideal quality. The goodness is Someone who is good. The love we preach is God himself in Christ. --H. Grady Davis


jebutler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5602 on: November 28, 2021, 12:37:47 PM »
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/south-africa-people-bbc-news-botswana-israel-b968574.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/26/south-africa-b11529-covid-variant-vaccination

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/south-african-doctor-raised-alarm-omicron-variant-says-symptoms/

South African Medical Association chair says new COVID strain fears are "storm in a teacup".

They indeed might be. But maybe not. As Katelyn Jetelina posted today, " The public is being asked to understand the second most complex system in the human body while navigating a sea of misinformation while coping with significant pandemic exhaustion and mental health problems. All while receiving little-to-no communication."

Here is her update: https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/omicron-update-nov-27   She is a source of excellent information.
The truth we preach is not an abstract thing. The truth is a Person. The goodness we preach is not an ideal quality. The goodness is Someone who is good. The love we preach is God himself in Christ. --H. Grady Davis

Dave Benke

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5603 on: November 28, 2021, 02:30:06 PM »
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/south-africa-people-bbc-news-botswana-israel-b968574.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/26/south-africa-b11529-covid-variant-vaccination

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/south-african-doctor-raised-alarm-omicron-variant-says-symptoms/

South African Medical Association chair says new COVID strain fears are "storm in a teacup".

They indeed might be. But maybe not. As Katelyn Jetelina posted today, " The public is being asked to understand the second most complex system in the human body while navigating a sea of misinformation while coping with significant pandemic exhaustion and mental health problems. All while receiving little-to-no communication."

Here is her update: https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/omicron-update-nov-27   She is a source of excellent information.

Thanks for this, Jim - very helpful and useful in guiding local congregations making their Advent/Christmas preparations and plans.  I'll check this source again!

Dave Benke

peter_speckhard

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5604 on: November 29, 2021, 08:44:26 AM »
This quote encapsulates so much of what is wrong with our discourse. The idea that pointing out that Fauci lied about his research is taking an anti-science stand is absurd.

"But if they get up and really aim their bullets at Tony Fauci, well people can recognize that there’s a person there, so it’s easy to criticize, but they’re really criticizing science because I represent science." Anthony Fauci

When people talk about losing faith in experts, about elitism run amok, and about a political bias in the "deep state" of unelected officials, this is the sort of thing they're talking about. Sen. Paul is a doctor. He isn't anti-science. He is anti-lying to Congress.   

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rand-paul-blasts-fauci-astounding-alarming-represent-science

Terry W Culler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5605 on: November 29, 2021, 09:26:40 AM »
Dr. Fauci lived most of his life known and respected by a relatively small number of people.  Then he became a celebrity and it seems to have taken over his whole being.  It was said of Georgie Jessel that he was famous for being famous.  I suspect Dr. Fauci is experiencing some of the same type of fame as the aforesaid Mr. Jessel--most people aren't real sure of who he is, but he seems to be in the public eye all the time so he must be someone important.  I do think his 15 minutes of fame is about up, though.
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John_Hannah

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5606 on: November 29, 2021, 09:29:59 AM »
This quote encapsulates so much of what is wrong with our discourse. The idea that pointing out that Fauci lied about his research is taking an anti-science stand is absurd.

"But if they get up and really aim their bullets at Tony Fauci, well people can recognize that there’s a person there, so it’s easy to criticize, but they’re really criticizing science because I represent science." Anthony Fauci

When people talk about losing faith in experts, about elitism run amok, and about a political bias in the "deep state" of unelected officials, this is the sort of thing they're talking about. Sen. Paul is a doctor. He isn't anti-science. He is anti-lying to Congress.   

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rand-paul-blasts-fauci-astounding-alarming-represent-science

How many in the medical communities agree with Senator Paul (& Admiral Jackson)? It's likely a tiny number.

Peace, JOHN
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DeHall1

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5607 on: November 29, 2021, 10:01:16 AM »
This quote encapsulates so much of what is wrong with our discourse. The idea that pointing out that Fauci lied about his research is taking an anti-science stand is absurd.

"But if they get up and really aim their bullets at Tony Fauci, well people can recognize that there’s a person there, so it’s easy to criticize, but they’re really criticizing science because I represent science." Anthony Fauci

When people talk about losing faith in experts, about elitism run amok, and about a political bias in the "deep state" of unelected officials, this is the sort of thing they're talking about. Sen. Paul is a doctor. He isn't anti-science. He is anti-lying to Congress.   

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rand-paul-blasts-fauci-astounding-alarming-represent-science

How many in the medical communities agree with Senator Paul (& Admiral Jackson)? It's likely a tiny number.

Peace, JOHN

IIRC, Senator Paul's biggest issue with Dr. Fauci is with whether or not the NIH funded (through the Ecohealth Alliance) gain of function research at the Wuhan Institute of Virolgy, and are now lying about this funding.

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/nih-cancels-funding-for-bat-coronavirus-research-project-67486
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/10/nih-admits-funding-risky-virus-research-in-wuhan

On this issue, it certainly appears that more members of the "intelligence community" (whether that includes the "medical community" I can't say) agrees with Senator Paul than you think.

The other issue is the claim that Dr. Fauci is ignoring natural immunity studies. Senator Paul (from what I gather) isn't necessarily stating that natural immunity is better than vaccines, he's stating that no studies exist showing that getting the vaccine if you already have natural immunity is of any benefit at all.  The CDC has admitted this on their website.

I would think that the majority of the "medical communities" would agree to this statement -- If the CDC says there's no study, why wouldn't they agree?

peter_speckhard

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5608 on: November 29, 2021, 10:10:22 AM »
This quote encapsulates so much of what is wrong with our discourse. The idea that pointing out that Fauci lied about his research is taking an anti-science stand is absurd.

"But if they get up and really aim their bullets at Tony Fauci, well people can recognize that there’s a person there, so it’s easy to criticize, but they’re really criticizing science because I represent science." Anthony Fauci

When people talk about losing faith in experts, about elitism run amok, and about a political bias in the "deep state" of unelected officials, this is the sort of thing they're talking about. Sen. Paul is a doctor. He isn't anti-science. He is anti-lying to Congress.   

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rand-paul-blasts-fauci-astounding-alarming-represent-science

How many in the medical communities agree with Senator Paul (& Admiral Jackson)? It's likely a tiny number.

Peace, JOHN
Agree with him about what? When Dr. Fauci says that criticism of him is criticism of science, knowing he is getting criticism from a medical doctor (i.e. not anti-science) about whether or not Dr. Fauci did something and whether he was honest about what he did, that has nothing to do with what percentage of the medical community agrees with Dr. Fauci's policy recommendations.

Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5609 on: November 29, 2021, 10:32:01 AM »
The move against Dr. Fauci began when, despite his diplomacy and attempt to keep out of the fray, it became evident that he was not on the side of The Ex with regard to the response to the pandemic. He did not look up with adoring eyes when the then president was speaking, and it became evident in his interviews, that he did not fully agree with what was being said from that august podium.
Then the attacks on him and his advice and even his standing in the job he had held for decades began.
And BTW, every medical doctor is not equal to every other medical doctor. Some medical doctors, it is possible, may not to be considered equal to the nurses that work alongside of them.
Lineup careers, reputations in the field of immunology and virology, standings in the larger community of medical science and then decide who you want to trust. You got somebody better than Dr. Fauci? Let me see their CV. Let me see to what extent their views are slanted by political or social alignments.
And I’ll say it one more time. Science evolves. If a scientist says one thing in April and then has a different take on the matter in November, it is because new things have been learned between April and November. It is not that they lied in April.
Retired ELCA Pastor. You can say liberal Christians are wrong. You can say that you disagree with our interpretation of faith. But when you say we are driven by “culture” or “trendiness,” you prove that you do not listen to us. Luther fared better with Rome.