Author Topic: Coronavirus news  (Read 648642 times)

Steven W Bohler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5355 on: November 02, 2021, 05:43:44 PM »
The reality is that not everyone will get vaccinated.  They say at least 70% to 85% of the population will need to be vaccinated to reach the herd immunity threshold.  But it's unlikely to happen.  Right now around 58% of the population in the US is fully vaccinated, with over 66% having had at least one shot. A number of additional people will buckle under and get the vaccine because of mandates and the risk of losing their jobs. But will that be enough to get to that 'magic' number of 70 to 80%?  I don't know. But I'm skeptical. 

So, what are we to do?  Not every business or service provider will mandate vaccines.  Do we demand to know the vaccine status before doing business with someone?  Do we avoid places where we know the employer has not mandated vaccines?  Do we simply restrict what we do in public out of fear that a number of those around us may still remain unvaccinated - and unmasked? 

COVID will be with us for an extended period of time.  Like many viruses it will undoubtedly never completely disappear.  How do we live with this reality?  We can argue for an against getting the vaccine.  We can argue for an against mandates.  But in the end we still will have to live with some risk.  That's the bottom line in a day-to-day existence.  In the regular world that I live in many appear to be accepting the risk and returning to normal activities.  As have I.  Now I'm fully vaccinated (three shots to date), but I know a risk still exists.  I can get a 'breakthrough infection.'  I am 'high risk' due to my diabetes and history of upper respiratory issues.  But I'm not going to avoid my community because of it.  And I will not live in perpetual fear.  I've taken what I think are reasonable precautions, but I can't control everyone else.

And what percentage of Americans have had COVID but have not been vaccinated (natural immunity, which is stronger and longer lasting than immunity via vaccination)?  That may well push the total over the 70-80% threshold.

David Garner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5356 on: November 02, 2021, 05:51:00 PM »
And what are the odds for a healthy unvaccinated person under the age of 60 dying from COVID?
Basically like 110% unless they wear a mask.
You mean, unless EVERYONE wears a mask, including all those who ARE vaccinated.

Well yeah.  Otherwise people will be getting pregnant all the time.
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Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5357 on: November 02, 2021, 06:11:45 PM »
Peter:
Good government in cooperation with private enterprise developed the vaccine and made it available, and continued to monitor and adjust. Thatís as far as good government goes.

Me:
Iím glad people like you are not responsible for speed laws.
Good government in cooperation with private enterprise developed gas pedals and brakes in cars and made them available and continued to monitor and adjust. Thatís as far as good government goes.
You inability to make basic distinctions is breathtaking. If it was right to make this mandate, then every mandate must be justified. Thatís about as far as your discernment goes. The idea that having your body injected with something you donít fully understand against your will by people you donít trust is the same thing as following traffic signals is just dumb.


So, you'd rather have your body infected with a virus that we don't fully understand that is much more likely to make you sick or kill you than the mysterious vaccine.

Because the only two choices are either a) get the vaccine, or b) get COVID.  Because no one who has gotten the vaccine has gotten COVID.  And no one who has refused the vaccine has avoided COVID.  So, there you are. Get the vaccine or die.  Your choice.  And if you refuse the vaccine, then obviously/clearly/indisputably you must prefer to die.

I guess the next step in this Stoffregenian logic is to help those who refuse the vaccine along in their choosing of death.  Either literally or figuratively.


Not "choices," so much as gambling with one's life. Gamblers look at the odds; and seldom is any gamble a sure thing. The odds of getting sick or dying from COVID are much greater for folks who are not vaccinated than for folks who are vaccinated. The odds of getting sick or dying from the vaccine are much less than getting sick or dying from COVID.

And what are the odds for a healthy unvaccinated person under the age of 60 dying from COVID?


Much greater than if they were vaccinated.


My answer would be the same if you had asked, What are the odds of an unvaccinated person under the age of 60 infecting another person with COVID?
"The church Ö had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5358 on: November 02, 2021, 06:15:59 PM »
The reality is that not everyone will get vaccinated.  They say at least 70% to 85% of the population will need to be vaccinated to reach the herd immunity threshold.  But it's unlikely to happen.  Right now around 58% of the population in the US is fully vaccinated, with over 66% having had at least one shot. A number of additional people will buckle under and get the vaccine because of mandates and the risk of losing their jobs. But will that be enough to get to that 'magic' number of 70 to 80%?  I don't know. But I'm skeptical. 

So, what are we to do?  Not every business or service provider will mandate vaccines.  Do we demand to know the vaccine status before doing business with someone?  Do we avoid places where we know the employer has not mandated vaccines?  Do we simply restrict what we do in public out of fear that a number of those around us may still remain unvaccinated - and unmasked? 

COVID will be with us for an extended period of time.  Like many viruses it will undoubtedly never completely disappear.  How do we live with this reality?  We can argue for an against getting the vaccine.  We can argue for an against mandates.  But in the end we still will have to live with some risk.  That's the bottom line in a day-to-day existence.  In the regular world that I live in many appear to be accepting the risk and returning to normal activities.  As have I.  Now I'm fully vaccinated (three shots to date), but I know a risk still exists.  I can get a 'breakthrough infection.'  I am 'high risk' due to my diabetes and history of upper respiratory issues.  But I'm not going to avoid my community because of it.  And I will not live in perpetual fear.  I've taken what I think are reasonable precautions, but I can't control everyone else.

And what percentage of Americans have had COVID but have not been vaccinated (natural immunity, which is stronger and longer lasting than immunity via vaccination)?  That may well push the total over the 70-80% threshold.


Well, the jury is still out on that Ö or more correctly there have been two contradictory decisions about that. Our news just reported that people with the "natural immunity" are five times more likely to get COVID than those who have been vaccinated. The opinion piece posted earlier said the opposite.
"The church Ö had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

D. Engebretson

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5359 on: November 02, 2021, 06:17:57 PM »
The reality is that not everyone will get vaccinated.  They say at least 70% to 85% of the population will need to be vaccinated to reach the herd immunity threshold.  But it's unlikely to happen.  Right now around 58% of the population in the US is fully vaccinated, with over 66% having had at least one shot. A number of additional people will buckle under and get the vaccine because of mandates and the risk of losing their jobs. But will that be enough to get to that 'magic' number of 70 to 80%?  I don't know. But I'm skeptical. 

So, what are we to do?  Not every business or service provider will mandate vaccines.  Do we demand to know the vaccine status before doing business with someone?  Do we avoid places where we know the employer has not mandated vaccines?  Do we simply restrict what we do in public out of fear that a number of those around us may still remain unvaccinated - and unmasked? 

COVID will be with us for an extended period of time.  Like many viruses it will undoubtedly never completely disappear.  How do we live with this reality?  We can argue for an against getting the vaccine.  We can argue for an against mandates.  But in the end we still will have to live with some risk.  That's the bottom line in a day-to-day existence.  In the regular world that I live in many appear to be accepting the risk and returning to normal activities.  As have I.  Now I'm fully vaccinated (three shots to date), but I know a risk still exists.  I can get a 'breakthrough infection.'  I am 'high risk' due to my diabetes and history of upper respiratory issues.  But I'm not going to avoid my community because of it.  And I will not live in perpetual fear.  I've taken what I think are reasonable precautions, but I can't control everyone else.

And what percentage of Americans have had COVID but have not been vaccinated (natural immunity, which is stronger and longer lasting than immunity via vaccination)?  That may well push the total over the 70-80% threshold.

That is a good point.  I should have factored that in.  31% of the population had already been infected with COVID-19 at the end of 2020. And as of May, about one-fifth of Americans had derived their antibodies from COVID-19 infections, experts estimate. So, more than 80 percent of Americans have coronavirus antibodies acquired through infection or vaccination, according to a study of more than 1.4 million blood donations across the U.S. (published in JAMA in May of 2021). Thus, when researchers combined the number of people with antibodies from either infection or vaccination, they found about 83 percent of Americans had acquired them.

https://www.mahoningmatters.com/local-news/how-many-americans-have-coronavirus-antibodies-blood-donations-show-vast-majority-do-4306807
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5360 on: November 02, 2021, 06:52:42 PM »
Pastor Bohler:
And what percentage of Americans have had COVID but have not been vaccinated (natural immunity, which is stronger and longer lasting than immunity via vaccination)?  That may well push the total over the 70-80% threshold.

Me:
Dream on. And pray that you are lucky. For that is virtually the only hope of those who dismiss precautions, vaccinations, and related safety measures. The problem is - in areas where the population is large, rather than just open spaces with cows counted as voters - the infection is active, forceful and immunity is, if present at all, fleeting and uncertain.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Former national staff Lutheran Church in America And the Lutheran world Federation, Geneva. Former journalist. Now retired and living in Minneapolis.

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5361 on: November 02, 2021, 07:14:35 PM »
Pastor Bohler:
And what percentage of Americans have had COVID but have not been vaccinated (natural immunity, which is stronger and longer lasting than immunity via vaccination)?  That may well push the total over the 70-80% threshold.

Me:
Dream on. And pray that you are lucky. For that is virtually the only hope of those who dismiss precautions, vaccinations, and related safety measures. The problem is - in areas where the population is large, rather than just open spaces with cows counted as voters - the infection is active, forceful and immunity is, if present at all, fleeting and uncertain.

Well, since you choose to diss our rural areas, or what Walz calls the land of "rocks and cows," in fact this is Godís country. So, maybe the active, forceful infection in the city is Godís way of punishing the unrepentant cities for their perverted sins.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2021, 07:42:06 PM by Donald_Kirchner »
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Steven W Bohler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5362 on: November 02, 2021, 07:53:25 PM »
Peter:
Good government in cooperation with private enterprise developed the vaccine and made it available, and continued to monitor and adjust. Thatís as far as good government goes.

Me:
Iím glad people like you are not responsible for speed laws.
Good government in cooperation with private enterprise developed gas pedals and brakes in cars and made them available and continued to monitor and adjust. Thatís as far as good government goes.
You inability to make basic distinctions is breathtaking. If it was right to make this mandate, then every mandate must be justified. Thatís about as far as your discernment goes. The idea that having your body injected with something you donít fully understand against your will by people you donít trust is the same thing as following traffic signals is just dumb.


So, you'd rather have your body infected with a virus that we don't fully understand that is much more likely to make you sick or kill you than the mysterious vaccine.

Because the only two choices are either a) get the vaccine, or b) get COVID.  Because no one who has gotten the vaccine has gotten COVID.  And no one who has refused the vaccine has avoided COVID.  So, there you are. Get the vaccine or die.  Your choice.  And if you refuse the vaccine, then obviously/clearly/indisputably you must prefer to die.

I guess the next step in this Stoffregenian logic is to help those who refuse the vaccine along in their choosing of death.  Either literally or figuratively.


Not "choices," so much as gambling with one's life. Gamblers look at the odds; and seldom is any gamble a sure thing. The odds of getting sick or dying from COVID are much greater for folks who are not vaccinated than for folks who are vaccinated. The odds of getting sick or dying from the vaccine are much less than getting sick or dying from COVID.

And what are the odds for a healthy unvaccinated person under the age of 60 dying from COVID?


Much greater than if they were vaccinated.


My answer would be the same if you had asked, What are the odds of an unvaccinated person under the age of 60 infecting another person with COVID?

You keep saying "much greater odds".  I want you to tell me a figure.  How much greater?  Do the odds go from 100,000-to-1 to 100,000-to-1.001?

Steven W Bohler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5363 on: November 02, 2021, 07:54:52 PM »
Pastor Bohler:
And what percentage of Americans have had COVID but have not been vaccinated (natural immunity, which is stronger and longer lasting than immunity via vaccination)?  That may well push the total over the 70-80% threshold.

Me:
Dream on. And pray that you are lucky. For that is virtually the only hope of those who dismiss precautions, vaccinations, and related safety measures. The problem is - in areas where the population is large, rather than just open spaces with cows counted as voters - the infection is active, forceful and immunity is, if present at all, fleeting and uncertain.

Well, since you choose to diss our rural areas, or what Walz calls the land of "rocks and cows," in fact this is Godís country. So, maybe the active, forceful infection in the city is Godís way of punishing the unrepentant cities for their perverted sins.

Culling the herd, as someone's Beloved Spouse put it.

Steven W Bohler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5364 on: November 02, 2021, 07:55:58 PM »
Pastor Bohler:
And what percentage of Americans have had COVID but have not been vaccinated (natural immunity, which is stronger and longer lasting than immunity via vaccination)?  That may well push the total over the 70-80% threshold.

Me:
Dream on. And pray that you are lucky. For that is virtually the only hope of those who dismiss precautions, vaccinations, and related safety measures. The problem is - in areas where the population is large, rather than just open spaces with cows counted as voters - the infection is active, forceful and immunity is, if present at all, fleeting and uncertain.

No, the cows are not counted as voters here.  But I HAVE heard that in major metro areas, it is not uncommon for dead people to vote.

Terry W Culler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5365 on: November 02, 2021, 08:15:36 PM »
Pastor Bohler:
And what percentage of Americans have had COVID but have not been vaccinated (natural immunity, which is stronger and longer lasting than immunity via vaccination)?  That may well push the total over the 70-80% threshold.

Me:
Dream on. And pray that you are lucky. For that is virtually the only hope of those who dismiss precautions, vaccinations, and related safety measures. The problem is - in areas where the population is large, rather than just open spaces with cows counted as voters - the infection is active, forceful and immunity is, if present at all, fleeting and uncertain.

No, the cows are not counted as voters here.  But I HAVE heard that in major metro areas, it is not uncommon for dead people to vote.



And in some rural areas too--Landslide Lyndon Johnson elected by the former living in Duval County TX
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D. Engebretson

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5366 on: November 03, 2021, 08:57:24 AM »
It seems as if the public's perception of the ongoing pandemic is impacting some elections.  The NYTimes noted this morning in regards to the Virginia governor's election: "Why are voters so unhappy with Democrats? The main reason appears to be the pandemic, which has disrupted everyday life and the global economy for longer than many people expected."  It will be interesting to see if and how they address this going into the midterms next year, if the issue remains relevant for voters at that time.
Pastor Don Engebretson
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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5367 on: November 03, 2021, 09:04:46 AM »
The times also said that BidenĎs agenda is immensely popular throughout the country. The problem is unity or at least cooperation within the factions of the Democrats.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Former national staff Lutheran Church in America And the Lutheran world Federation, Geneva. Former journalist. Now retired and living in Minneapolis.

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5368 on: November 03, 2021, 10:07:30 AM »
It seems as if the public's perception of the ongoing pandemic is impacting some elections.  The NYTimes noted this morning in regards to the Virginia governor's election: "Why are voters so unhappy with Democrats? The main reason appears to be the pandemic, which has disrupted everyday life and the global economy for longer than many people expected."  It will be interesting to see if and how they address this going into the midterms next year, if the issue remains relevant for voters at that time.

The times also said that BidenĎs agenda is immensely popular throughout the country. The problem is unity or at least cooperation within the factions of the Democrats.

Don, I never thought you'd be carrying Brandon's water.

Yup, the Times says a lot of stuff, as the above shows, much of it baloney.  Which is why I don't subscribe.
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Jim Butler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5369 on: November 03, 2021, 10:36:06 AM »
The times also said that BidenĎs agenda is immensely popular throughout the country. The problem is unity or at least cooperation within the factions of the Democrats.

According to an ABC/Ipsos poll, 32% of the country thinks his agenda (assuming you mean his BBB bill) will hurt them; only 25% think it will help. Less than half of Democrats think it will help them. A full 70% say they know little to nothing as to what are in the bills. (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/biden-democrats-failing-sell-agenda-american-people-poll/)

If 70% of the people say they know little to nothing about the bills Biden is proposing, then how can the Times argue his agenda is "immensely popular"? That doesn't make any sense.

The popularity of his agenda came through in Virginia and New Jersey last night--states that he took last year by 10+ points. As VP Harris said last week, "What happens in Virginia will in large part determine what happens in 2022, 2024, and on."

The significance of the passage of time, right? The significance of the passage of time. So when you think about it, there is great significance to the passage of time. -- VP Kamala Harris