Author Topic: Coronavirus news  (Read 648688 times)

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5340 on: November 02, 2021, 02:06:02 PM »
Whatís breathtaking, Peter, is your lack of understanding of the world we live in. Your ultra libertarianism on a select few issues, is terrifying. The same way your ultra rigidity on some other issues is frightening. .

I've often said your habit of ascribing fear to others is just projection.


When you watch a scary movie, is the fear you feel just a projection because it's only in your mind? As a news report said about scary movies, the fear in the brain is real.


So, the fear about the virus is real; and so also is the fear about the vaccine. One fear has better correlation with reality than the other.
"The church Ö had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5341 on: November 02, 2021, 02:10:03 PM »
Peter:
Good government in cooperation with private enterprise developed the vaccine and made it available, and continued to monitor and adjust. Thatís as far as good government goes.

Me:
Iím glad people like you are not responsible for speed laws.
Good government in cooperation with private enterprise developed gas pedals and brakes in cars and made them available and continued to monitor and adjust. Thatís as far as good government goes.
You inability to make basic distinctions is breathtaking. If it was right to make this mandate, then every mandate must be justified. Thatís about as far as your discernment goes. The idea that having your body injected with something you donít fully understand against your will by people you donít trust is the same thing as following traffic signals is just dumb.

So, you'd rather have your body infected with a virus that we don't fully understand that is much more likely to make you sick or kill you than the mysterious vaccine.

How do you conclude that?  :o

It's a matter of choice as to what goes in one's body. Remember that view? Choice about one's body? You certainly use it a lot when you defend killing babies.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2021, 02:17:44 PM by Donald_Kirchner »
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David Garner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5342 on: November 02, 2021, 03:16:01 PM »
Whatís breathtaking, Peter, is your lack of understanding of the world we live in. Your ultra libertarianism on a select few issues, is terrifying. The same way your ultra rigidity on some other issues is frightening. .

I've often said your habit of ascribing fear to others is just projection.


When you watch a scary movie, is the fear you feel just a projection because it's only in your mind? As a news report said about scary movies, the fear in the brain is real.


So, the fear about the virus is real; and so also is the fear about the vaccine. One fear has better correlation with reality than the other.

Sometimes I think I should just let things go, but in this case I want to try to point out as gently as I can that I don't think you read this exchange accurately.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

David Garner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5343 on: November 02, 2021, 03:18:48 PM »
Whatís breathtaking, Peter, is your lack of understanding of the world we live in. Your ultra libertarianism on a select few issues, is terrifying. The same way your ultra rigidity on some other issues is frightening. .
Iím not a Libertarian, but I do wonder how it is even possible to be terrified by people whose political philosophy revolves around the importance of minding your own business.

In a world where minding your own business is "literally violence" (TM), where not doing the things Pastor Austin's team wants you to do is "bioterrorism" (TM), well, yes, it's pretty scary to just let people live their lives in peace.

I mean, Pastor Austin can't go to the theater because he's scared of COVID, therefore, other people ought to be forced at the point of a gun to do things that .......... *checks notes* ............ don't even make him feel better and apparently don't protect you from the virus.

(I guess what I'm saying is all of this is just performance art to justify one team wielding power over the other).
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

peter_speckhard

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5344 on: November 02, 2021, 03:43:37 PM »
Peter:
Good government in cooperation with private enterprise developed the vaccine and made it available, and continued to monitor and adjust. Thatís as far as good government goes.

Me:
Iím glad people like you are not responsible for speed laws.
Good government in cooperation with private enterprise developed gas pedals and brakes in cars and made them available and continued to monitor and adjust. Thatís as far as good government goes.
You inability to make basic distinctions is breathtaking. If it was right to make this mandate, then every mandate must be justified. Thatís about as far as your discernment goes. The idea that having your body injected with something you donít fully understand against your will by people you donít trust is the same thing as following traffic signals is just dumb.


So, you'd rather have your body infected with a virus that we don't fully understand that is much more likely to make you sick or kill you than the mysterious vaccine.
No. I wasn't afraid of the virus or the vaccine, so I got the vaccine because it made things easier at church. But the fact is, I'd rather be allowed to do what I'd rather do than be forced to do what you'd rather I did.

Steven W Bohler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5345 on: November 02, 2021, 03:58:37 PM »
Peter:
Good government in cooperation with private enterprise developed the vaccine and made it available, and continued to monitor and adjust. Thatís as far as good government goes.

Me:
Iím glad people like you are not responsible for speed laws.
Good government in cooperation with private enterprise developed gas pedals and brakes in cars and made them available and continued to monitor and adjust. Thatís as far as good government goes.
You inability to make basic distinctions is breathtaking. If it was right to make this mandate, then every mandate must be justified. Thatís about as far as your discernment goes. The idea that having your body injected with something you donít fully understand against your will by people you donít trust is the same thing as following traffic signals is just dumb.


So, you'd rather have your body infected with a virus that we don't fully understand that is much more likely to make you sick or kill you than the mysterious vaccine.

Because the only two choices are either a) get the vaccine, or b) get COVID.  Because no one who has gotten the vaccine has gotten COVID.  And no one who has refused the vaccine has avoided COVID.  So, there you are. Get the vaccine or die.  Your choice.  And if you refuse the vaccine, then obviously/clearly/indisputably you must prefer to die.

I guess the next step in this Stoffregenian logic is to help those who refuse the vaccine along in their choosing of death.  Either literally or figuratively. 

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5346 on: November 02, 2021, 04:18:53 PM »
Peter:
Good government in cooperation with private enterprise developed the vaccine and made it available, and continued to monitor and adjust. Thatís as far as good government goes.

Me:
Iím glad people like you are not responsible for speed laws.
Good government in cooperation with private enterprise developed gas pedals and brakes in cars and made them available and continued to monitor and adjust. Thatís as far as good government goes.
You inability to make basic distinctions is breathtaking. If it was right to make this mandate, then every mandate must be justified. Thatís about as far as your discernment goes. The idea that having your body injected with something you donít fully understand against your will by people you donít trust is the same thing as following traffic signals is just dumb.


So, you'd rather have your body infected with a virus that we don't fully understand that is much more likely to make you sick or kill you than the mysterious vaccine.
No. I wasn't afraid of the virus or the vaccine, so I got the vaccine because it made things easier at church. But the fact is, I'd rather be allowed to do what I'd rather do than be forced to do what you'd rather I did.


I don't care what you do. It's unlikely that I will ever be within 6 feet of you. I do care about what the folks have done that I come into close contact with. I do not want to catch the virus. So I've now had my three shots. I want the people around me to be vaccinated. If I have an option of not being near unvaccinated folks, I'll take it. When there isn't an option, e.g., my dental hygienist, or the staff at my doctor's office; the tellers at the bank, etc., I'd like to be assured that they have been vaccinated, I look to see if they are properly wearing a mask. If they are not willing to take such steps to protect their customers, then they shouldn't be working with the public.
"The church Ö had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Steven W Bohler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5347 on: November 02, 2021, 04:19:24 PM »
https://www.newsweek.com/how-fauci-fooled-america-opinion-1643839  An opinion piece in Newsweek by two doctors (Martin Kulldorff, Ph.D., is an epidemiologist, biostatistician, and Professor of Medicine at Harvard Medical School. Jay Bhattacharya, MD, Ph.D., is a Professor of Health Policy at Stanford University School of Medicine).

Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5348 on: November 02, 2021, 04:21:20 PM »
Mr. Garner:
(I guess what I'm saying is all of this is just performance art to justify one team wielding power over the other).

Me:
Darn it, Mr. Garner. You figured it out. The whole pandemic is a plot by liberals to gain control. But we hadnít figured on the courage/stupidity of people who would say Iíll skip the vaccination and Iíll risk sickness or death or worse. Iíll put myself, my family and my neighbors at risk so that I can avoid falling under the terrible thumb of liberals who are seeking control.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Former national staff Lutheran Church in America And the Lutheran world Federation, Geneva. Former journalist. Now retired and living in Minneapolis.

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5349 on: November 02, 2021, 04:24:31 PM »
Peter:
Good government in cooperation with private enterprise developed the vaccine and made it available, and continued to monitor and adjust. Thatís as far as good government goes.

Me:
Iím glad people like you are not responsible for speed laws.
Good government in cooperation with private enterprise developed gas pedals and brakes in cars and made them available and continued to monitor and adjust. Thatís as far as good government goes.
You inability to make basic distinctions is breathtaking. If it was right to make this mandate, then every mandate must be justified. Thatís about as far as your discernment goes. The idea that having your body injected with something you donít fully understand against your will by people you donít trust is the same thing as following traffic signals is just dumb.


So, you'd rather have your body infected with a virus that we don't fully understand that is much more likely to make you sick or kill you than the mysterious vaccine.

Because the only two choices are either a) get the vaccine, or b) get COVID.  Because no one who has gotten the vaccine has gotten COVID.  And no one who has refused the vaccine has avoided COVID.  So, there you are. Get the vaccine or die.  Your choice.  And if you refuse the vaccine, then obviously/clearly/indisputably you must prefer to die.

I guess the next step in this Stoffregenian logic is to help those who refuse the vaccine along in their choosing of death.  Either literally or figuratively.


Not "choices," so much as gambling with one's life. Gamblers look at the odds; and seldom is any gamble a sure thing. The odds of getting sick or dying from COVID are much greater for folks who are not vaccinated than for folks who are vaccinated. The odds of getting sick or dying from the vaccine are much less than getting sick or dying from COVID.
"The church Ö had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

David Garner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5350 on: November 02, 2021, 04:37:21 PM »
Mr. Garner:
(I guess what I'm saying is all of this is just performance art to justify one team wielding power over the other).

Me:
Darn it, Mr. Garner. You figured it out. The whole pandemic is a plot by liberals to gain control. But we hadnít figured on the courage/stupidity of people who would say Iíll skip the vaccination and Iíll risk sickness or death or worse. Iíll put myself, my family and my neighbors at risk so that I can avoid falling under the terrible thumb of liberals who are seeking control.

Oh, it isn't the pandemic I take issue with.  Only your hyperventilating responses to it.  Pastor Stoffregen just posted that he has gotten his third vaccine shot, and wants other people around him to be vaccinated because he "doesn't want to catch the virus."  If you can't see why people don't take this stuff seriously, I don't know what to tell you.

You folks like to pretend the vaccine is an invisibility cloak to coerce others to get it, and then you turn around and act as if it doesn't work at all in order to shame them for not getting it.  Ostriches have more situational awareness.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

Steven W Bohler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5351 on: November 02, 2021, 04:46:11 PM »
Peter:
Good government in cooperation with private enterprise developed the vaccine and made it available, and continued to monitor and adjust. Thatís as far as good government goes.

Me:
Iím glad people like you are not responsible for speed laws.
Good government in cooperation with private enterprise developed gas pedals and brakes in cars and made them available and continued to monitor and adjust. Thatís as far as good government goes.
You inability to make basic distinctions is breathtaking. If it was right to make this mandate, then every mandate must be justified. Thatís about as far as your discernment goes. The idea that having your body injected with something you donít fully understand against your will by people you donít trust is the same thing as following traffic signals is just dumb.


So, you'd rather have your body infected with a virus that we don't fully understand that is much more likely to make you sick or kill you than the mysterious vaccine.

Because the only two choices are either a) get the vaccine, or b) get COVID.  Because no one who has gotten the vaccine has gotten COVID.  And no one who has refused the vaccine has avoided COVID.  So, there you are. Get the vaccine or die.  Your choice.  And if you refuse the vaccine, then obviously/clearly/indisputably you must prefer to die.

I guess the next step in this Stoffregenian logic is to help those who refuse the vaccine along in their choosing of death.  Either literally or figuratively.


Not "choices," so much as gambling with one's life. Gamblers look at the odds; and seldom is any gamble a sure thing. The odds of getting sick or dying from COVID are much greater for folks who are not vaccinated than for folks who are vaccinated. The odds of getting sick or dying from the vaccine are much less than getting sick or dying from COVID.

And what are the odds for a healthy unvaccinated person under the age of 60 dying from COVID? 

David Garner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5352 on: November 02, 2021, 04:51:15 PM »
Peter:
Good government in cooperation with private enterprise developed the vaccine and made it available, and continued to monitor and adjust. Thatís as far as good government goes.

Me:
Iím glad people like you are not responsible for speed laws.
Good government in cooperation with private enterprise developed gas pedals and brakes in cars and made them available and continued to monitor and adjust. Thatís as far as good government goes.
You inability to make basic distinctions is breathtaking. If it was right to make this mandate, then every mandate must be justified. Thatís about as far as your discernment goes. The idea that having your body injected with something you donít fully understand against your will by people you donít trust is the same thing as following traffic signals is just dumb.


So, you'd rather have your body infected with a virus that we don't fully understand that is much more likely to make you sick or kill you than the mysterious vaccine.

Because the only two choices are either a) get the vaccine, or b) get COVID.  Because no one who has gotten the vaccine has gotten COVID.  And no one who has refused the vaccine has avoided COVID.  So, there you are. Get the vaccine or die.  Your choice.  And if you refuse the vaccine, then obviously/clearly/indisputably you must prefer to die.

I guess the next step in this Stoffregenian logic is to help those who refuse the vaccine along in their choosing of death.  Either literally or figuratively.


Not "choices," so much as gambling with one's life. Gamblers look at the odds; and seldom is any gamble a sure thing. The odds of getting sick or dying from COVID are much greater for folks who are not vaccinated than for folks who are vaccinated. The odds of getting sick or dying from the vaccine are much less than getting sick or dying from COVID.

And what are the odds for a healthy unvaccinated person under the age of 60 dying from COVID?

Basically like 110% unless they wear a mask.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

D. Engebretson

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5353 on: November 02, 2021, 05:38:58 PM »
The reality is that not everyone will get vaccinated.  They say at least 70% to 85% of the population will need to be vaccinated to reach the herd immunity threshold.  But it's unlikely to happen.  Right now around 58% of the population in the US is fully vaccinated, with over 66% having had at least one shot. A number of additional people will buckle under and get the vaccine because of mandates and the risk of losing their jobs. But will that be enough to get to that 'magic' number of 70 to 80%?  I don't know. But I'm skeptical. 

So, what are we to do?  Not every business or service provider will mandate vaccines.  Do we demand to know the vaccine status before doing business with someone?  Do we avoid places where we know the employer has not mandated vaccines?  Do we simply restrict what we do in public out of fear that a number of those around us may still remain unvaccinated - and unmasked? 

COVID will be with us for an extended period of time.  Like many viruses it will undoubtedly never completely disappear.  How do we live with this reality?  We can argue for and against getting the vaccine.  We can argue for and against mandates.  But in the end we still will have to live with some risk.  That's the bottom line in a day-to-day existence.  In the regular world that I live in many appear to be accepting the risk and returning to normal activities.  As have I.  Now I'm fully vaccinated (three shots to date), but I know a risk still exists.  I can get a 'breakthrough infection.'  I am 'high risk' due to my diabetes and history of upper respiratory issues.  But I'm not going to avoid my community because of it.  And I will not live in perpetual fear.  I've taken what I think are reasonable precautions, but I can't control everyone else. 
« Last Edit: November 02, 2021, 05:41:40 PM by D. Engebretson »
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aletheist

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5354 on: November 02, 2021, 05:40:36 PM »
And what are the odds for a healthy unvaccinated person under the age of 60 dying from COVID?
Basically like 110% unless they wear a mask.
You mean, unless EVERYONE wears a mask, including all those who ARE vaccinated.
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