Author Topic: Coronavirus news  (Read 584756 times)

David Garner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5325 on: November 02, 2021, 10:53:13 AM »
With regard to vaccine mandates, worth noting, as outgoing mayor (election of new mayor today) DiBlasio loves to tell the world, vaccine mandates work.  With 86% of NYC adults vaccinated and 92% of the city workforce vaccinated, our rates of infection and death are among the lowest anywhere for a tightly packed spot on the globe such as this.  What they did with the outliers was to put them on unpaid leave.  So basically they're coming around, with FDNY being last to the dance.  We had limited garbage pickup for four days, but the sanitation chief came on yesterday, apologized for the delays, said the sanitmen were back at full strength and vaccinated and he was thankful for their getting the message.   And Dan Nigro, FDNY commissioner, whom we honored at our Witness in the Public Square luncheon (Atlantic District) a couple of weeks ago, strongly supported the need for the firemen to get vaccinated, and has suspended one group who made a spectacle of themselves by taking a truck in uniform to threaten a state senator (which seemed weird anyway - what does a state senator have to do with their oversight?  nothing) at his office. 

All in all, slowly but now more surely, we are getting back to it in NYC.

Dave Benke

According to the state of Minnesota, my county (Polk County) has rates of 50% (one does) and 45% ("fully" vaccinated -- not sure if that means two doses or also the additional boosters).  I believe our rates of infection and death are less than NYC.  We do not have a mandate.

Just spitballing a guess on this, SW, but your comparison might have at least a little bit to do with population density.  Polk County comes in at 16 people per square mile, and NYC five boroughs  is 27,016.  Where you're from, the eschatological vision of Micah (4:4) is approximately true - every man sitting under his own vine and fig tree, and if my math is correct, every person has on average 40 acres in which to sit.  Here we had some folks at our community garden who brought their pots of veggy plants from their apartment windows and replanted them on their 6' x 20' plot, which is a tad less than 40 acres.

That being said, you should be very happy you did not go through what we've been through in NY in terms of sickness and death from COVID.  You've been blessed.  And we all have been blessed with vaccines that work. My booster is due next week.


Dave Benke

Ah, but you have just made my point: what may be good, helpful, even necessary in places like NYC (or Minneapolis/St. Paul) is NOT necessarily good, helpful, or necessary for places like Polk County.  So, why should all places be subject to mandates (or some of the other things that perhaps are beneficial for major metro areas)?  We have governors and presidents trying to make a "one-size-fits-all" solution when such solutions are neither good nor necessary for many places.

I think that's right, and I want to be clear I do NOT put Dr. Benke in this basket, but the fact is that too many folks view a vaccine card as the Tea Party viewed a flag pin.  It is a sign that you are on our side.

If you don't have the sign, you're one of the bad guys.

I also want to be clear I do NOT associate the vaccine with the mark of the beast (I am, after all, vaccinated).  So this is more a story about political cliques and virtue signaling than eschatology.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

Dave Benke

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5326 on: November 02, 2021, 11:12:09 AM »
With regard to vaccine mandates, worth noting, as outgoing mayor (election of new mayor today) DiBlasio loves to tell the world, vaccine mandates work.  With 86% of NYC adults vaccinated and 92% of the city workforce vaccinated, our rates of infection and death are among the lowest anywhere for a tightly packed spot on the globe such as this.  What they did with the outliers was to put them on unpaid leave.  So basically they're coming around, with FDNY being last to the dance.  We had limited garbage pickup for four days, but the sanitation chief came on yesterday, apologized for the delays, said the sanitmen were back at full strength and vaccinated and he was thankful for their getting the message.   And Dan Nigro, FDNY commissioner, whom we honored at our Witness in the Public Square luncheon (Atlantic District) a couple of weeks ago, strongly supported the need for the firemen to get vaccinated, and has suspended one group who made a spectacle of themselves by taking a truck in uniform to threaten a state senator (which seemed weird anyway - what does a state senator have to do with their oversight?  nothing) at his office. 

All in all, slowly but now more surely, we are getting back to it in NYC.

Dave Benke

According to the state of Minnesota, my county (Polk County) has rates of 50% (one does) and 45% ("fully" vaccinated -- not sure if that means two doses or also the additional boosters).  I believe our rates of infection and death are less than NYC.  We do not have a mandate.

Just spitballing a guess on this, SW, but your comparison might have at least a little bit to do with population density.  Polk County comes in at 16 people per square mile, and NYC five boroughs  is 27,016.  Where you're from, the eschatological vision of Micah (4:4) is approximately true - every man sitting under his own vine and fig tree, and if my math is correct, every person has on average 40 acres in which to sit.  Here we had some folks at our community garden who brought their pots of veggy plants from their apartment windows and replanted them on their 6' x 20' plot, which is a tad less than 40 acres.

That being said, you should be very happy you did not go through what we've been through in NY in terms of sickness and death from COVID.  You've been blessed.  And we all have been blessed with vaccines that work. My booster is due next week.


Dave Benke

Ah, but you have just made my point: what may be good, helpful, even necessary in places like NYC (or Minneapolis/St. Paul) is NOT necessarily good, helpful, or necessary for places like Polk County.  So, why should all places be subject to mandates (or some of the other things that perhaps are beneficial for major metro areas)?  We have governors and presidents trying to make a "one-size-fits-all" solution when such solutions are neither good nor necessary for many places.

Sure.  I personally haven't made a point about mandating the vaccine nationwide (at least one that I remember), but I maintain being vaccinated is a great thing, and should be encouraged and carried out wherever possible. 

Dave Benke

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5327 on: November 02, 2021, 11:14:21 AM »
Re: Covid: Our county (San Mateo) is around 94% vaccinated. In a year and a half no one under the age of 20 has died. Under the age of 40, 9. Weíre still under a mask mandate.


Peter (The Mask of Zorro) Garrison
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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5328 on: November 02, 2021, 11:47:12 AM »
With regard to vaccine mandates, worth noting, as outgoing mayor (election of new mayor today) DiBlasio loves to tell the world, vaccine mandates work.  With 86% of NYC adults vaccinated and 92% of the city workforce vaccinated, our rates of infection and death are among the lowest anywhere for a tightly packed spot on the globe such as this.  What they did with the outliers was to put them on unpaid leave.  So basically they're coming around, with FDNY being last to the dance.  We had limited garbage pickup for four days, but the sanitation chief came on yesterday, apologized for the delays, said the sanitmen were back at full strength and vaccinated and he was thankful for their getting the message.   And Dan Nigro, FDNY commissioner, whom we honored at our Witness in the Public Square luncheon (Atlantic District) a couple of weeks ago, strongly supported the need for the firemen to get vaccinated, and has suspended one group who made a spectacle of themselves by taking a truck in uniform to threaten a state senator (which seemed weird anyway - what does a state senator have to do with their oversight?  nothing) at his office. 

All in all, slowly but now more surely, we are getting back to it in NYC.

Dave Benke

According to the state of Minnesota, my county (Polk County) has rates of 50% (one does) and 45% ("fully" vaccinated -- not sure if that means two doses or also the additional boosters).  I believe our rates of infection and death are less than NYC.  We do not have a mandate.

Just spitballing a guess on this, SW, but your comparison might have at least a little bit to do with population density.  Polk County comes in at 16 people per square mile, and NYC five boroughs  is 27,016.  Where you're from, the eschatological vision of Micah (4:4) is approximately true - every man sitting under his own vine and fig tree, and if my math is correct, every person has on average 40 acres in which to sit.  Here we had some folks at our community garden who brought their pots of veggy plants from their apartment windows and replanted them on their 6' x 20' plot, which is a tad less than 40 acres.

That being said, you should be very happy you did not go through what we've been through in NY in terms of sickness and death from COVID.  You've been blessed.  And we all have been blessed with vaccines that work. My booster is due next week.


Dave Benke

Ah, but you have just made my point: what may be good, helpful, even necessary in places like NYC (or Minneapolis/St. Paul) is NOT necessarily good, helpful, or necessary for places like Polk County.  So, why should all places be subject to mandates (or some of the other things that perhaps are beneficial for major metro areas)?  We have governors and presidents trying to make a "one-size-fits-all" solution when such solutions are neither good nor necessary for many places.

Sure.  I personally haven't made a point about mandating the vaccine nationwide (at least one that I remember), but I maintain being vaccinated is a great thing, and should be encouraged and carried out wherever possible. 

Dave Benke
Being vaccinated is a great thing. The difference between encourage and mandate is key.

Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5329 on: November 02, 2021, 11:49:27 AM »
Peter:
Good government in cooperation with private enterprise developed the vaccine and made it available, and continued to monitor and adjust. Thatís as far as good government goes.

Me:
Iím glad people like you are not responsible for speed laws.
Good government in cooperation with private enterprise developed gas pedals and brakes in cars and made them available and continued to monitor and adjust. Thatís as far as good government goes.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Iowa native. Now in Minneapolis. One must always ponder both the value and the dangers of poking the bear. Aroused and stimulated, the bear usually shows its true self. Or it might leap to an extreme version of itself. You never know with bears.

Dan Fienen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5330 on: November 02, 2021, 11:54:20 AM »
Peter:
Good government in cooperation with private enterprise developed the vaccine and made it available, and continued to monitor and adjust. Thatís as far as good government goes.

Me:
Iím glad people like you are not responsible for speed laws.
Good government in cooperation with private enterprise developed gas pedals and brakes in cars and made them available and continued to monitor and adjust. Thatís as far as good government goes.
If the government made speed laws like the Biden administration has been making vaccination mandates the speed limit for interstates would be 30 miles an hour. After all, that is standard for surface streets in urban areas so why not impose that speed limit for all the nation's roads?
Pr. Daniel Fienen
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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5331 on: November 02, 2021, 11:56:50 AM »
Peter:
Being vaccinated is a great thing. The difference between encourage and mandate is key.

Me:
Driving responsibly, or driving sober, or not speeding is a great thing. But we should encourage it, not mandate it.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Iowa native. Now in Minneapolis. One must always ponder both the value and the dangers of poking the bear. Aroused and stimulated, the bear usually shows its true self. Or it might leap to an extreme version of itself. You never know with bears.

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5332 on: November 02, 2021, 12:15:05 PM »
Peter:
Being vaccinated is a great thing. The difference between encourage and mandate is key.

Me:
Driving responsibly, or driving sober, or not speeding is a great thing. But we should encourage it, not mandate it.

Not killing babies is a great thing.  But we should encourage it, not mandate it.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5333 on: November 02, 2021, 12:36:49 PM »
Peter:
Good government in cooperation with private enterprise developed the vaccine and made it available, and continued to monitor and adjust. Thatís as far as good government goes.

Me:
Iím glad people like you are not responsible for speed laws.
Good government in cooperation with private enterprise developed gas pedals and brakes in cars and made them available and continued to monitor and adjust. Thatís as far as good government goes.
You inability to make basic distinctions is breathtaking. If it was right to make this mandate, then every mandate must be justified. Thatís about as far as your discernment goes. The idea that having your body injected with something you donít fully understand against your will by people you donít trust is the same thing as following traffic signals is just dumb.

Sweden is outperforming most other countries on Covid, in cities and rural areas. Without mandates. If there were countries where there were no traffic laws yet there was just as much traffic and fewer accidents, Iíd call our traffic laws into question. And even then comparing traffic laws to vaccines would make little sense.

Dave Benke

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5334 on: November 02, 2021, 12:51:56 PM »
With regard to vaccine mandates, worth noting, as outgoing mayor (election of new mayor today) DiBlasio loves to tell the world, vaccine mandates work.  With 86% of NYC adults vaccinated and 92% of the city workforce vaccinated, our rates of infection and death are among the lowest anywhere for a tightly packed spot on the globe such as this.  What they did with the outliers was to put them on unpaid leave.  So basically they're coming around, with FDNY being last to the dance.  We had limited garbage pickup for four days, but the sanitation chief came on yesterday, apologized for the delays, said the sanitmen were back at full strength and vaccinated and he was thankful for their getting the message.   And Dan Nigro, FDNY commissioner, whom we honored at our Witness in the Public Square luncheon (Atlantic District) a couple of weeks ago, strongly supported the need for the firemen to get vaccinated, and has suspended one group who made a spectacle of themselves by taking a truck in uniform to threaten a state senator (which seemed weird anyway - what does a state senator have to do with their oversight?  nothing) at his office. 

All in all, slowly but now more surely, we are getting back to it in NYC.

Dave Benke

According to the state of Minnesota, my county (Polk County) has rates of 50% (one does) and 45% ("fully" vaccinated -- not sure if that means two doses or also the additional boosters).  I believe our rates of infection and death are less than NYC.  We do not have a mandate.

Just spitballing a guess on this, SW, but your comparison might have at least a little bit to do with population density.  Polk County comes in at 16 people per square mile, and NYC five boroughs  is 27,016.  Where you're from, the eschatological vision of Micah (4:4) is approximately true - every man sitting under his own vine and fig tree, and if my math is correct, every person has on average 40 acres in which to sit.  Here we had some folks at our community garden who brought their pots of veggy plants from their apartment windows and replanted them on their 6' x 20' plot, which is a tad less than 40 acres.

That being said, you should be very happy you did not go through what we've been through in NY in terms of sickness and death from COVID.  You've been blessed.  And we all have been blessed with vaccines that work. My booster is due next week.


Dave Benke

Ah, but you have just made my point: what may be good, helpful, even necessary in places like NYC (or Minneapolis/St. Paul) is NOT necessarily good, helpful, or necessary for places like Polk County.  So, why should all places be subject to mandates (or some of the other things that perhaps are beneficial for major metro areas)?  We have governors and presidents trying to make a "one-size-fits-all" solution when such solutions are neither good nor necessary for many places.

Sure.  I personally haven't made a point about mandating the vaccine nationwide (at least one that I remember), but I maintain being vaccinated is a great thing, and should be encouraged and carried out wherever possible. 

Dave Benke
Being vaccinated is a great thing. The difference between encourage and mandate is key.

This is true. 

In NYC/NYS, those in essential public service being paid with tax $ - cops, firemen, emt, sanitation, teachers, corrections , transit- have all been mandated (don't know all the state details).  All of them are out and about all the time and so are prime carriers/distributors/receivers.  As stated, the percentages have absolutely jumped, and we're all safer for it.  On the private side of the spectrum, which is enormous, there are less mandates, but some.  I think those should remain optional.  We take and must show our vaccination status or test status pretty much wherever we go.  Sunday we got and took the opportunity to see Hamilton (the story will be part of our Wednesday service this week).  All present, except the cast/crew/musicians (couldn't see the musicians, but that's a fair guess) had to
a) wear a mask throughout
b) show proof of vaccination with ID and/or negative test within X day period

There were zero problems with this in the completely packed house.

Dave Benke

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5335 on: November 02, 2021, 12:54:30 PM »
Whatís breathtaking, Peter, is your lack of understanding of the world we live in. Your ultra libertarianism on a select few issues, is terrifying. The same way your ultra rigidity on some other issues is frightening. .
Retired ELCA Pastor. Iowa native. Now in Minneapolis. One must always ponder both the value and the dangers of poking the bear. Aroused and stimulated, the bear usually shows its true self. Or it might leap to an extreme version of itself. You never know with bears.

David Garner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5336 on: November 02, 2021, 12:55:45 PM »
Whatís breathtaking, Peter, is your lack of understanding of the world we live in. Your ultra libertarianism on a select few issues, is terrifying. The same way your ultra rigidity on some other issues is frightening. .

I've often said your habit of ascribing fear to others is just projection.

QED
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5337 on: November 02, 2021, 12:58:37 PM »
Peter:
Good government in cooperation with private enterprise developed the vaccine and made it available, and continued to monitor and adjust. Thatís as far as good government goes.

Me:
Iím glad people like you are not responsible for speed laws.
Good government in cooperation with private enterprise developed gas pedals and brakes in cars and made them available and continued to monitor and adjust. Thatís as far as good government goes.
You inability to make basic distinctions is breathtaking. If it was right to make this mandate, then every mandate must be justified. Thatís about as far as your discernment goes. The idea that having your body injected with something you donít fully understand against your will by people you donít trust is the same thing as following traffic signals is just dumb.

Thanks for saving me the time, Peter.
Don Kirchner

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peter_speckhard

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5338 on: November 02, 2021, 01:33:24 PM »
Whatís breathtaking, Peter, is your lack of understanding of the world we live in. Your ultra libertarianism on a select few issues, is terrifying. The same way your ultra rigidity on some other issues is frightening. .
Iím not a Libertarian, but I do wonder how it is even possible to be terrified by people whose political philosophy revolves around the importance of minding your own business.

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5339 on: November 02, 2021, 02:03:27 PM »
Peter:
Good government in cooperation with private enterprise developed the vaccine and made it available, and continued to monitor and adjust. Thatís as far as good government goes.

Me:
Iím glad people like you are not responsible for speed laws.
Good government in cooperation with private enterprise developed gas pedals and brakes in cars and made them available and continued to monitor and adjust. Thatís as far as good government goes.
You inability to make basic distinctions is breathtaking. If it was right to make this mandate, then every mandate must be justified. Thatís about as far as your discernment goes. The idea that having your body injected with something you donít fully understand against your will by people you donít trust is the same thing as following traffic signals is just dumb.


So, you'd rather have your body infected with a virus that we don't fully understand that is much more likely to make you sick or kill you than the mysterious vaccine.
"The church Ö had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]