Author Topic: Coronavirus news  (Read 474085 times)

J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5250 on: October 19, 2021, 09:21:59 AM »
Facing reality:

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2021/10/let-life-resume-john-stossel/

Well stated.  It is something I have thought about from early on in the the pandemic. We do not live with zero risk.  We manage risk.  And then we get on with living.  Excellent article.

We determine our level of risk tolerance and adjust accordingly. 

For example, as we age some of us prefer to drive at off peak times.
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peter_speckhard

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5251 on: October 19, 2021, 10:22:30 AM »
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/kevindowneyjr/2021/10/18/appalling-nyc-judge-denies-visitation-rights-to-unvaccinated-dad-who-already-had-covid-n1524822

Some have argued that refusing the vaccine means loss of access to public places. Now it seems to mean loss of access to one’s own family.

J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5252 on: October 19, 2021, 10:55:02 AM »
And another good read:

https://townhall.com/columnists/matthewbetley/2021/10/19/the-confusion-illusion-of-control-in-the-time-of-covid-n2597633

We may need to take the first step of a classic twelve-step program in order to move forward.
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Coach-Rev

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5253 on: October 21, 2021, 10:29:10 AM »
So I am a walking paradox.

I tested positive for Covid.  I've apparently had it now for 9 days (meaning I'm free of quarantine tomorrow already). 

It was confirmed yesterday, only because my vaccinated wife and brother in law both tested positive with moderate cases.

We had strong winds early last week, that left me with a day of chills, mild sinus congestion and an intermittent mild cough - no fever at all, checked several times.   Given that I was functioning normally, I wrote it off as my usual bout of allergies that occurs this time each year when harvest is in full swing.

Did I mention that I am not vaccinated?  According to some fear-mongers here, I should be dead now.  The difference?  I take regular hydroxychloroquine for my rheumatoid arthritis.  The doctor agrees it likely kept me nearly asymptomatic, meaning I also would not be spreading it to others.

Given how many "breakthrough" cases we are seeing (and often not getting reported - I wonder why?), one has to wonder about the effectiveness of the vaccines to begin with.  The 94% threshold of effectiveness seems to have been broken long ago. 
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Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5254 on: October 21, 2021, 11:05:47 AM »
Pastor Cottingham:
So I am a walking paradox.

Me:
Or maybe, you are just lucky.
Perhaps a more humane response would be
1) to thank God that you and your family are OK,
2) to not be smug about it, which comes across as “Nyah Nyah Nyah you’re sick and I’m not,” and
3) not to say things that might endanger other people.
Good grief, man! If the vaccines were only 52% effective, they would be a good thing. And their effectiveness is in the 94% range and above, whether you believe it or not.
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Steven W Bohler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5255 on: October 21, 2021, 11:26:02 AM »
Pastor Cottingham:
So I am a walking paradox.

Me:
Or maybe, you are just lucky.
Perhaps a more humane response would be
1) to thank God that you and your family are OK,
2) to not be smug about it, which comes across as “Nyah Nyah Nyah you’re sick and I’m not,” and
3) not to say things that might endanger other people.
Good grief, man! If the vaccines were only 52% effective, they would be a good thing. And their effectiveness is in the 94% range and above, whether you believe it or not.

I doubt if you are the one to be giving suggestions on "humane" responses.  On vitually ANY subject -- but especially this one, Mr. "Cull the Herd of Those Damned Fools".

Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5256 on: October 21, 2021, 11:33:37 AM »
BRZZZZZ! Wrong again. I never said I supported that. And if the herd should be culled, I might think there are people who are even more worthy of it than the anti-VAX ***people
« Last Edit: October 21, 2021, 11:35:34 AM by Charles Austin »
Retired ELCA Pastor: We are not a very inter-Lutheran forum. Posters with more than 1,500 posts: ELCA-6, with 3 of those inactive/rare and 1 moderator; LCMS-25, with 4 inactive/rare and 1 moderator. Non-Lutherans, 3; maybe 4 from other Lutheran bodies. 3 formerly frequent posters have gone quiet.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5257 on: October 21, 2021, 12:53:55 PM »
I think it is odd how people apply the word "lucky" to someone who survived something that 99+% of the people survive. Why not say that someone who had a fatal or really bad case was unlucky? The normal, common experience with Covid is far more like what Coach-Rev describes than anything catastrophic, and saying so does in no way downplays the seriousness or tragedy of the catastrophic cases. The one who got in a serious car wreck through no fault of his own was unlucky. The one who made it home safely, again through no fault of virtue of his own, was not particularly lucky to do so. If I argue based on the data that the speed limit does not need to be lowered even though there have been some high speed crashes, I'm not being heartless to those who might have been saved had the speed limit been lowered. And if I argue against shelter in place orders or some such, I'm not denying that Covid has been a serious tragedy for many, many people. They were the unlucky ones, not the normal ones. It inverts everything to treat those whose experience with Covid was normal as though they are lucky, and those whose experience was abnormally catastrophic as just what we ought to expect.

For purposes of this post, of course, I'm using the word "lucky" merely in terms of statistics and measurable likelihoods, not in any theological sense by which we can say there is no such things as luck. 

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5258 on: October 21, 2021, 12:59:47 PM »
Pastor Cottingham:
So I am a walking paradox.

Me:
Or maybe, you are just lucky.
Perhaps a more humane response would be
1) to thank God that you and your family are OK,
2) to not be smug about it, which comes across as “Nyah Nyah Nyah you’re sick and I’m not,” and
3) not to say things that might endanger other people.
Good grief, man! If the vaccines were only 52% effective, they would be a good thing. And their effectiveness is in the 94% range and above, whether you believe it or not.

I didn't read Pastor Cottingham's words this way at all.

I do read yours -- frequently -- and wonder why you have such an emotional stake in a lot of people getting sick and dying from COVID that you get defensive and upset when someone doesn't.  But maybe I'm just granting you the same amount of charity you granted to Pastor Cottingham.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5259 on: October 21, 2021, 01:12:24 PM »
It ain't rocket surgery.
Vaccinations prevent illnesses.
Vaccinations prevent deaths.
Vaccinations prevent transmitting the disease to others who might get seriously ill and die.
Those things are true beyond a shadow of a doubt. If you think they are not, I believe you have a real serious problem.
Where I live the vast VAST majoring of people now hospitalized with the virus have not been vaccinated.
Peter says "Well, gee, not everyone gets real sick and a lot of people don't die and sometimes the virus is just like a cold and maybe the 760.000+ people who died where just unlucky and blah blah speed limits and those who just got a little sick were 'those whose experience with covid was normal' and why don't we focus on them rather than all the icky stuff about ventilators and death?"
I find that obscene. "Those whose experience with Covid was normal"? As in a little fever, a cough or two? Tell that to the millions of people who were family, friends, co-workers of the 760,000. 
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Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5260 on: October 21, 2021, 01:22:18 PM »
BRZZZZZ! Wrong again. I never said I supported that. And if the herd should be culled, I might think there are people who are even more worthy of it than the anti-VAX ***people

When you shared with us that Beloved Spouse said that the death of anti-vaxxers is perhaps God's way of culling the herd, I didn't see any objection from you. In fact, you seemed smugly proud to share her quip.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2021, 01:27:37 PM by Donald_Kirchner »
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Coach-Rev

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5261 on: October 21, 2021, 01:28:59 PM »
It ain't rocket surgery.
Vaccinations prevent illnesses.
Vaccinations prevent deaths.
Vaccinations prevent transmitting the disease to others who might get seriously ill and die.
Those things are true beyond a shadow of a doubt. If you think they are not, I believe you have a real serious problem.
Where I live the vast VAST majoring of people now hospitalized with the virus have not been vaccinated.
Peter says "Well, gee, not everyone gets real sick and a lot of people don't die and sometimes the virus is just like a cold and maybe the 760.000+ people who died where just unlucky and blah blah speed limits and those who just got a little sick were 'those whose experience with covid was normal' and why don't we focus on them rather than all the icky stuff about ventilators and death?"
I find that obscene. "Those whose experience with Covid was normal"? As in a little fever, a cough or two? Tell that to the millions of people who were family, friends, co-workers of the 760,000.

Way to apply your twisted brand of logic to what i said (you've been duly called on it already by others), and way to ignore what I actually said.

I indicated I was not vaccinated, but yet the HcQ that I take regularly for a completely different disease is likely why I wasn't even aware I had it.  I will not use any of the 3 vaccines, all of which were tested on and/or developed using aborted human tissue.   Despite that I saw no one else here claim a religious exemption, that is a very clear religious objection if I ever heard of one.

And just why is it that no one is talking of all the breakthrough cases with those who have been vaccinated, and have even died?  (uh, General Powell immediately comes to mind...).  your statement "those things are true beyond a shadow of a doubt" is patently false.  that you believe them unswervingly in the face of so much contrary data tells me that we both have the same problem:  you.

Now back to ignoring you.
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James S. Rustad

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5262 on: October 21, 2021, 01:42:02 PM »
BRZZZZZ! Wrong again. I never said I supported that. And if the herd should be culled, I might think there are people who are even more worthy of it than the anti-VAX ***people

There are numerous reports from the UN and other agencies expressing concern that the need for more food (70 percent more, if population growth continues) will not keep pace with the increase in population. Of course the rich countries will be fine, but even there the amount and quality of the food may decline, due to changes in climate, and pollution of soil, air and water.
On the other hand, nature may "cull the herd" with disease, a type of "population control" and who knows what wars, both local and regional, might do to populations in some areas of the world.
It is short-sighted and not smart to dismiss all concern for population growth.

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5263 on: October 21, 2021, 01:51:32 PM »
I indicated I was not vaccinated, but yet the HcQ that I take regularly for a completely different disease is likely why I wasn't even aware I had it.  I will not use any of the 3 vaccines, all of which were tested on and/or developed using aborted human tissue.   Despite that I saw no one else here claim a religious exemption, that is a very clear religious objection if I ever heard of one.

Actually, aborted human tissue was not used. The cell line used was derived from tissue from the 1970s. These cell lines "are 'immortal,' meaning that, once developed, they continue to divide and reproduce themselves indefinitely." A connection? Yes, but being the conflicting absolutist that I am, I took the Moderna vaccine.

Furthermore, medications such as acetaminophen, albuterol, aspirin, ibuprofen, Tylenol, Pepto bismol, Tums, Lipitor, Senokot, Motrin, Maalox, Ex-Lax, Benadryl, Sudafed, Preparation H, Claritin, Prilosec, and Zoloft also were developed/tested using fetal cell lines.

Moreover, "immoral experiments performed in Nazi Germany on concentration camp prisoners and those in mental institutions led to the development of the antimalarial drug chloroquine [and therefore its analogue hydroxychloroquine] and many other medical advances."

https://www.heritage.org/public-health/commentary/the-covid-vaccine-and-the-pro-life-movement
« Last Edit: October 21, 2021, 02:20:44 PM by Donald_Kirchner »
Don Kirchner

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Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #5264 on: October 21, 2021, 01:54:47 PM »
I indicated I was not vaccinated, but yet the HcQ that I take regularly for a completely different disease is likely why I wasn't even aware I had it.  I will not use any of the 3 vaccines, all of which were tested on and/or developed using aborted human tissue.   Despite that I saw no one else here claim a religious exemption, that is a very clear religious objection if I ever heard of one.


Here's a report from a Roman Catholic about the "fetal tissue" issue.


https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/you-asked-we-answered-do-the-covid-19-vaccines-contain-aborted-fetal-cells
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]