Coronavirus news

[James S. Rustad]

Returning to the thread's original subject...

Dr. Fauci is now saying that things are going to get worse.  My question is whether or not people will listen to him now that he admits to lying in the past?  Maybe the government needs a new spox?

"I don't think we're gonna see lockdowns. I think we have enough of the percentage of people in the country -- not enough to crush the outbreak -- but I believe enough to not allow us to get into the situation we were in last winter. But things are going to get worse," the nation's top infectious disease expert told "This Week" co-anchor Jonathan Karl on Sunday.

[James S. Rustad]

An interesting article on convincing the unvaccinated to get vaccinated:

Stay detached. Your emotions are not helpful. Don't shame people who are unvaccinated, and don't show your own anger. Make them feel safe around you and enter any conversation knowing you can stay reasoned, no matter what. If you're not sure you can, table the talk for another time or format (see: put your thoughts in an email).

And remember - you are trying to convince people who don't fear the virus!

The data shows the unvaccinated don't fear the virus, even as they are most at risk

[Randy Bosch]

Well, yes, Coronavirus news in that skepticism about the media mob proclamations of the apocalypse or armageddon or whatever of COVID means the end of things as they formerly told us we know them.  Misinterpretation of data, denial of data that does not fit a selected narrative, and the desire for power and control (fits into the deadly sins somehow...) is all around us amidst the COVID crisis (perhaps to become the COVIDochene).
Witness the end of the world hair on fire stuff about insect loss, particularly of honey bees, and what clear-headed, unbiased science has found over the passage of the past few years (while the public is still enamored with a belief in the crisis publicity:
https://quillette.com/2021/07/25/the-insect-apocalypse-that-never-was/

COVID is a substantial, world-wide problem.  Promoting public panic and doomsaying most likely isn't helping for getting people vaccinated or for following simple, proved personal and publichealth safety regimes.

[Randy Bosch]

This is actually a pro-vaccination report.  The problem is the fakery and foolhardiness of those who demand that they be awarded power and control despite their not following the science they claim to embrace:
https://www.intellectualtakeout.org/the-numbers-don-t-support-scapegoating-the-unvaccinated/

[Steven W Bohler]

Some questions that I have been pondering:

1. I understand that federal employees will be required to take the COVID vaccine.  Ought the government expand that requirement to those who receive Social Security or Medicare?  How about those who receive what we used to call welfare?  Can proof of vaccination be made a pre-requisite for receiving any government assistance?  If not, why not?

2. Rev. Austin has several times pointed out that schools require vaccinations (usually without any mention of exemptions allowed in virtually all of the states, but that is immaterial for this discussion).  And it seems to be an accepted position here that businesses can require COVID vaccination for employees and/or patrons.  So, can businesses require vaccination of other than COVID for their employees/patrons?  That is, can they require proof of measles vaccination before allowing one to shop in their store?  Proof of up-to-date tetanus vaccination as a condition of employment?  If not, why not?

Just wondering if anyone has had the time to ponder these questions from a couple of days ago....

[Charles Austin]

Yes, if they wanted to, retail businesses could require customers to show proof of vaccination before entering the premises, the way cruise ships do.
I would like stores to post whether they require their employees to be vaccinated, then I could decide whether  to enter that establishment.

[D. Engebretson]

The New York Times has provided a helpful map to show the regions most vulnerable to the COVID-19 virus as the Delta variant surges in the US:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/07/29/us/delta-variant-risk-map.html?campaign_id=190&emc=edit_ufn_20210801&instance_id=36847&nl=updates-from-the-newsroom&regi_id=96069183&segment_id=65084&te=1&user_id=f513d46ebc73b988def4c2178d04ed50

My area (north-eastern Wisconsin) is thankfully in a lighter area of infection. 

As the article notes: "Some of the least-protected areas, like counties in southern Missouri and northern Arkansas, are currently facing large outbreaks." However, they also note: " In other areas of the country, vaccination rates are as high as 70 to 80 percent. But researchers say it is likely that few if any counties have reached herd immunity — or the point at which enough people are immune that the virus is unlikely to spread within the community. Because the Delta variant is more contagious, that threshold is higher than before. That means much of the country is still susceptible to the kind of rapid spread that can put stress on hospitals and lead to worse outcomes for patients. The best protection for every community, experts say, is to continue to vaccinate as many people as possible."

[Steven W Bohler]

Yes, if they wanted to, retail businesses could require customers to show proof of vaccination before entering the premises, the way cruise ships do.
I would like stores to post whether they require their employees to be vaccinated, then I could decide whether  to enter that establishment.

I do not go on cruise ships so I do not know: do they require proof of ALL vaccinations?  Is that vaccination proof because of their international travel, or is that the case with those cruise ships that never leave the US too?  In your second sentence: are you saying you want them to post ALL the vaccinations their employees have received, or just COVID? 

[J. Thomas Shelley]

The New York Times has provided a helpful map to show the regions most vulnerable to the COVID-19 virus as the Delta variant surges in the US:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/07/29/us/delta-variant-risk-map.html?campaign_id=190&emc=edit_ufn_20210801&instance_id=36847&nl=updates-from-the-newsroom&regi_id=96069183&segment_id=65084&te=1&user_id=f513d46ebc73b988def4c2178d04ed50

The fine print at the bottom of the page regarding methodology is utterly transparent and highly enlightening:

The model makes several assumptions about the nature of the virus, reported data and vaccination. First, it assumes that natural immunity continues to offer the same level of protection over time to everyone who has recovered from infection. What percentage of people who have recovered from infections become immune and how long immunity may last are still open questions, but evidence suggests that immunity from prior infection alone is likely to last for at least eight months.

Emphasis added.

[David Garner]

The New York Times has provided a helpful map to show the regions most vulnerable to the COVID-19 virus as the Delta variant surges in the US:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/07/29/us/delta-variant-risk-map.html?campaign_id=190&emc=edit_ufn_20210801&instance_id=36847&nl=updates-from-the-newsroom&regi_id=96069183&segment_id=65084&te=1&user_id=f513d46ebc73b988def4c2178d04ed50

The fine print at the bottom of the page regarding methodology is utterly transparent and highly enlightening:

The model makes several assumptions about the nature of the virus, reported data and vaccination. First, it assumes that natural immunity continues to offer the same level of protection over time to everyone who has recovered from infection. What percentage of people who have recovered from infections become immune and how long immunity may last are still open questions, but evidence suggests that immunity from prior infection alone is likely to last for at least eight months.

Emphasis added.

This is another area where the public school handling of vaccinations in general may be instructive.  My daughter was vaccinated against chickenpox, and on the form she had to either certify that she had received the vaccination OR provide proof that she already had the disease.

Either/or was fine.  No need for both/and.  COVID is obviously a different virus, but if in fact prior contraction of the disease provides immunity, either/or should be fine here as well.

[Charles Austin]

Give it up, Pastor Bohler. You now lean to the nutcase side of the discussion. You  want to think that if I care about the COVID-19 vaccinations, I should care about every other vaccination that is protecting the people in our country. I am not hopping down that rabbit hole. And I reject your attempt to take my concern to ridiculous extremes.
Now you will be back with “but what if…?”
Just skip it and make your declarations that my views are inconsistent.

[Donald_Kirchner]

Give it up, Pastor Bohler. You now lean to the nutcase side of the discussion.

Are you capable of ceasing the boorish name-calling and inflammatory references to those with whom you disagree? Have you no decency or self-control?

[Steven W Bohler]

Give it up, Pastor Bohler. You now lean to the nutcase side of the discussion.

Are you capable of ceasing the boorish name-calling and inflammatory references to those with whom you disagree? Have you no decency or self-control?

I think we have been on this site long enough to know the answers to those questions.

[Steven W Bohler]

Give it up, Pastor Bohler. You now lean to the nutcase side of the discussion. You  want to think that if I care about the COVID-19 vaccinations, I should care about every other vaccination that is protecting the people in our country. I am not hopping down that rabbit hole. And I reject your attempt to take my concern to ridiculous extremes.
Now you will be back with “but what if…?”
Just skip it and make your declarations that my views are inconsistent.

My questions were NOT to just for you, no matter how important you think you are.  So, if you do not wish to answer, that is fine.  You do not need to do so.  And, believe it or not, I can live without your answers too.  But perhaps someone else may wish to participate, if that is acceptable to you.

[Randy Bosch]

Give it up, Pastor Bohler. You now lean to the nutcase side of the discussion.

Are you capable of ceasing the boorish name-calling and inflammatory references to those with whom you disagree? Have you no decency or self-control?

The Heckler's Veto is quite strong, and effectively ends meaningful dialogue whether or not the heckler is correct or in error.