Author Topic: Coronavirus news  (Read 399083 times)

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4410 on: July 28, 2021, 02:13:50 PM »
Can you tell me why I should not be mad at those who refuse vaccinations?

"People who don’t want the vaccine aren’t 'refusing' it. You don’t say a person is 'refusing' to take anti-depressants. Or 'refusing' to get married. You can decline without refusing. You decide what’s best for you. Refuse is a manipulative term, loaded with unfair moral pressure."  Dr. Ben Irvine
Don Kirchner

"Heaven's OK, but it’s not the end of the world." Jeff Gibbs

peter_speckhard

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4411 on: July 28, 2021, 02:42:41 PM »
The bottom line is still the same.
The vaccines work.
If you are vaccinated, you are protected, and you are not likely to infect others.
The variants pose a grave threat to those who are not vaccinated.
The variants pose a threat to those who are vaccinated, perhaps not a fatal threat, but a threat nonetheless.
The places where the number of vaccinations is relatively small are the places where the variants are making people very sick and killing people.
Common sense, along with the opinions of our top doctors, say that vaccinations can stop the surge in sicknesses and deaths.
Can you tell me why I should not be mad at those who refuse vaccinations?
Because their decisions do not really affect you and you are not privy to their reasoning, so your anger, which is not a good spiritual thing even in the best of circumstances, becomes mere self-righteous judgmentalism in short order. The ease with which you dismiss huge swaths of the population as idiots bears this out.

Dan Fienen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4412 on: July 28, 2021, 03:12:03 PM »
Thus the self-appointed enlightened elites reinforce their sense of superiority (and entitlement?) over against the hoi polloi. Thus climate gurus will take to their private jets and fly to a conference on climate change to bemoan how much greenhouse gasses the masses release in the atmosphere, how unwilling they are to make the needed sacrifices in life style for the good of everybody, and propose further austerity measures for them to reduce their carbon footprint.
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Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4413 on: July 28, 2021, 03:20:57 PM »
Peter, I did not dismiss them as “idiots.“
That is your customarily uncharitable view of my comments.
The decisions of those refusing vaccination do affect me. They affect healthcare in the community where I reside.  The need to deal with them affects other decisions that affect my community, not to mention how my tax money is spent.
And the unvaccinated could turn me into a carrier.
So I ask again, why the fervency of these desires to let those who choose not to help the community as a whole off the hook for their decisions?
“well, heck,“ says the guy in the bar, “I can handle eight or ten beers, that’s not a problem for me. So of course I’m driving home.”
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4414 on: July 28, 2021, 03:26:55 PM »
Peter, I did not dismiss them as “idiots.“
That is your customarily uncharitable view of my comments.

You are correct. You did not call them idiots. You called them stupid, time and time again.

But, in fact, the words are synonymous.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/idiot

That's quite uncharitable. And disingenuous.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2021, 03:42:47 PM by Donald_Kirchner »
Don Kirchner

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David Garner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4415 on: July 28, 2021, 04:32:37 PM »
The bottom line is still the same.
The vaccines work.
If you are vaccinated, you are protected, and you are not likely to infect others.
The variants pose a grave threat to those who are not vaccinated.
The variants pose a threat to those who are vaccinated, perhaps not a fatal threat, but a threat nonetheless.
The places where the number of vaccinations is relatively small are the places where the variants are making people very sick and killing people.
Common sense, along with the opinions of our top doctors, say that vaccinations can stop the surge in sicknesses and deaths.
Can you tell me why I should not be mad at those who refuse vaccinations?

Please consider the linked article, " COVID Stockholm Syndrome" - It is non-political, it does address your concerns, and it does advocate getting vaccinated.
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/covid-stockholm-syndrome/

This is a phenomenally good article.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4416 on: July 28, 2021, 05:13:00 PM »
I see nothing in that article to suggest that one should take a hand-holding  “oh, sweetie, that’s all right, we understand you, it’s ok”  attitude towards those who refuse vaccinations and thereby endanger others.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4417 on: July 28, 2021, 06:37:36 PM »
I see nothing in that article to suggest that one should take a hand-holding  “oh, sweetie, that’s all right, we understand you, it’s ok”  attitude towards those who refuse vaccinations and thereby endanger others.
You seem to have a lot less tolerance for people who disagree with you about vaccines than you do for people who disagree with you about the deepest matters of theology and the soul.

Dan Fienen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4418 on: July 28, 2021, 06:54:32 PM »
How's this for an idea that might allow Charles to sleep easier. We empty the prison system of its current incarcerated population, they are mainly innocents railroaded by our racist policing and criminal justice system anyway, and fill them with the real antisocial elements and dangers to society, those who refuse vaccination until they comply or all die of Covid and any remaining room we can fill with the greatest current national security threat, Trump supporters and voters. A perfect opportunity re-educate these dangerous antisocial recalcitrants.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2021, 07:52:18 PM by Dan Fienen »
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David Garner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4419 on: July 28, 2021, 07:09:53 PM »
I see nothing in that article to suggest that one should take a hand-holding  “oh, sweetie, that’s all right, we understand you, it’s ok”  attitude towards those who refuse vaccinations and thereby endanger others.

Yes.  Smug condescension is always the better approach  ::)
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James S. Rustad

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4420 on: July 28, 2021, 08:08:22 PM »
I see nothing in that article to suggest that one should take a hand-holding  “oh, sweetie, that’s all right, we understand you, it’s ok”  attitude towards those who refuse vaccinations and thereby endanger others.

Yes.  Smug condescension is always the better approach  ::)

It works w-a-a-a-y better than calling people stupid.

Terry W Culler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4421 on: July 28, 2021, 08:17:04 PM »
Is there any way we can stop this thread?  Every time I long on and look at it I see the same things being said by the same people over and again, none of it having anything to do with the Gospel or any theological issue.  It's become a major bore ::)
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J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4422 on: July 28, 2021, 08:40:24 PM »
Is there any way we can stop this thread?  Every time I long on and look at it I see the same things being said by the same people over and again, none of it having anything to do with the Gospel or any theological issue.  It's become a major bore ::)

If you would like some serious theological discussion on COVID and vaccinations, check out An Orthodox Response to Secularism;  Bioethics 'after God"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pDiPOjkfYk&t=3538s

Begins at approximately 3:08:00   Originally streamed on July 17.

It was well worth the listening time.  The theological premise is that we live in between the lost Paradise of Eden and the coming Eternal Kingdom of the Resurrection in a broken, fallen world; and this has implications for every bioethical discussion.  Those who are seeking a pain free and death free existence here and now are simply delusional.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2021, 08:58:27 PM by J. Thomas Shelley »
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Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4423 on: July 28, 2021, 09:43:41 PM »
Peter:
You seem to have a lot less tolerance for people who disagree with you about vaccines than you do for people who disagree with you about the deepest matters of theology and the soul.
Me:
Wrong you are again. And your sweeping words, “deepest matters of theology and the soul’” are meaningless without specifics.
But we digress. Are we going to do things to encourage vaccinations, or not?
Do we tell people the truth (the vaccines work and save lives, you should get vaccinated) or leave them in the playpen of their own “truth” surrounded by the lies of distracting Fisher-Price toys?
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

David Garner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4424 on: July 28, 2021, 09:47:24 PM »
Peter:
You seem to have a lot less tolerance for people who disagree with you about vaccines than you do for people who disagree with you about the deepest matters of theology and the soul.
Me:
Wrong you are again. And your sweeping words, “deepest matters of theology and the soul’” are meaningless without specifics.
But we digress. Are we going to do things to encourage vaccinations, or not?
Do we tell people the truth (the vaccines work and save lives, you should get vaccinated) or leave them in the playpen of their own “truth” surrounded by the lies of distracting Fisher-Price toys?

Let's be honest -- the next time you encourage vaccinations through your writings on this board will be the first.

But you like truth-telling, so here's the truth -- your words here do not evidence concern for the unvaccinated.  They evidence narcissistic preening about being right about something at the expense of people you have decided are wrong.  You don't express concern.  You express contempt.  If you want to save lives, the best thing you could do is stop writing about this here. And if what you write here is typical of how you interact elsewhere, you should just stop altogether.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).