Author Topic: Coronavirus news  (Read 394816 times)

jebutler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4260 on: July 24, 2021, 11:31:04 AM »
Here are the results of a poll of the unvaccinated conducted by the Associated Press:

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-science-health-government-and-politics-coronavirus-pandemic-36ea18ee3a3397da7edd5b8249f0e477

According to the poll, "Among American adults who have not yet received a vaccine, 35% say they probably will not, and 45% say they definitely will not, according to a poll from The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research. Just 3% say they definitely will get the shots, though another 16% say they probably will."

More at the link
The truth we preach is not an abstract thing. The truth is a Person. The goodness we preach is not an ideal quality. The goodness is Someone who is good. The love we preach is God himself in Christ. --H. Grady Davis

jebutler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4261 on: July 24, 2021, 01:13:47 PM »
A document has reportedly been found wherein Chinese scientists and health officials are found discussing a “new era of genetic weapons” that could be “artificially manipulated into an emerging human disease virus, then weaponised and unleashed. The document was written before the pandemic in 2015, news agency ANI quoted Weekend Australian that was published in news.com.au.

Titled ‘The Unnatural Origin of SARS and New Species of Man-Made Viruses as Genetic Bioweapons’, the paper is said to have suggested that the third world war would be fought with biological weapons, revealing how Chinese scientists were discussing the weaponisation of SARS coronaviruses five years before the COVID-19 pandemic hit.

More at https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/documents-reveal-chinese-scientists-discussed-weaponising-coronavirus-in-2015/ar-BB1gxluD
The truth we preach is not an abstract thing. The truth is a Person. The goodness we preach is not an ideal quality. The goodness is Someone who is good. The love we preach is God himself in Christ. --H. Grady Davis

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4262 on: July 24, 2021, 04:08:45 PM »

I think that most of us grew up seeing signs like, "No shoes, No shirt, No service." Businesses have had restrictions for decades. If they want to require wearing masks or proof of vaccination, they can.

There’s our logical fallacy of the day, the straw man. Response: No one has suggested otherwise. It’s a matter of (the business’s) individual choice.

Now, watch the hypocrisy, claiming the use of “logic”!

Perhaps the question should be, why should an individual choice override what benefits the group? It seems to me that the logic should run the other way: what benefits the group should be primary rather than what benefits the individual. When is it OK for an individual to make a choice for the self that is in conflict with what benefits the group?

Not only illogical, but where have we heard that unAmerican BS before and, then again, recently?
« Last Edit: July 24, 2021, 04:15:51 PM by Donald_Kirchner »
Don Kirchner

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Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4263 on: July 24, 2021, 04:14:47 PM »
We have freedom to choose for self or for group. Our sinful nature will be selfish. If we didn't choose to help others, our congregations would have no offerings. The members would keep it for themselves.

And now a reverting back to “freedom” but denigrating it by the self-identified Freedom-of-the-Gospel man proclaiming the law.  🤪
« Last Edit: July 24, 2021, 04:18:44 PM by Donald_Kirchner »
Don Kirchner

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James S. Rustad

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4264 on: July 24, 2021, 05:11:46 PM »
Most Americans who haven’t been vaccinated against COVID-19 say they are unlikely to get the shots and doubt they would work against the aggressive delta variant despite evidence they do, according to a new poll that underscores the challenges facing public health officials amid soaring infections in some states.

D. Engebretson

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4265 on: July 24, 2021, 05:37:43 PM »
Most Americans who haven’t been vaccinated against COVID-19 say they are unlikely to get the shots and doubt they would work against the aggressive delta variant despite evidence they do, according to a new poll that underscores the challenges facing public health officials amid soaring infections in some states.

From the linked article:
On Friday, White House press secretary Jen Psaki told reporters that the Biden administration has persuaded “a whole lot of people to change their minds and take action, get a shot, save their lives and the lives of people around them.” She noted that more than 5.2 million have received shots in the past 10 days, and said officials would continue their outreach efforts.

I think that is overstating the case.  There are a number of dynamics at play here.  Just watching the news and hearing reports of the Delta variant could motivate them. Or weighing whether they want the limitations that come with requiring them either for work (e.g. nurses required at some hospitals, etc.), or restricted travel or entry, or school (e.g. college), or any number of variants. The administration's outreach may account for some, but I highly doubt that millions decided to be the vaccine simply because Biden told them to. 
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

jebutler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4266 on: July 24, 2021, 05:46:41 PM »
Most Americans who haven’t been vaccinated against COVID-19 say they are unlikely to get the shots and doubt they would work against the aggressive delta variant despite evidence they do, according to a new poll that underscores the challenges facing public health officials amid soaring infections in some states.

From the linked article:
On Friday, White House press secretary Jen Psaki told reporters that the Biden administration has persuaded “a whole lot of people to change their minds and take action, get a shot, save their lives and the lives of people around them.” She noted that more than 5.2 million have received shots in the past 10 days, and said officials would continue their outreach efforts.

I think that is overstating the case.  There are a number of dynamics at play here.  Just watching the news and hearing reports of the Delta variant could motivate them. Or weighing whether they want the limitations that come with requiring them either for work (e.g. nurses required at some hospitals, etc.), or restricted travel or entry, or school (e.g. college), or any number of variants. The administration's outreach may account for some, but I highly doubt that millions decided to be the vaccine simply because Biden told them to.

There are about 330 million people in the US; about 161 million are currently vaccinated. 5.2 million people equals .2% the US population or .5% of the unvaccinated population. The AP poll says that about 20% of those unvaccinated either will or probably will get vaccinated in the near future. That’s about 34 million people, so 5.2 million is easily a doable number.
The truth we preach is not an abstract thing. The truth is a Person. The goodness we preach is not an ideal quality. The goodness is Someone who is good. The love we preach is God himself in Christ. --H. Grady Davis

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4267 on: July 24, 2021, 07:19:14 PM »
We have freedom to choose for self or for group. Our sinful nature will be selfish. If we didn't choose to help others, our congregations would have no offerings. The members would keep it for themselves.

And now a reverting back to “freedom” but denigrating it by the self-identified Freedom-of-the-Gospel man proclaiming the law.  🤪


Nothing wrong with proclaiming Law. God's Word comes to us as Law and Gospel. I find it quite ironic that I get accused of being antinomian and accused of proclaiming the Law. Both can't be accurate. When keeping the Law becomes a means of salvation (or even a partial means of salvation) there's a problem. Giving generously to the church doesn't bring salvation or any more salvation; but without generous givers, the church wouldn't exist.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4268 on: July 25, 2021, 12:08:07 AM »
I find it quite ironic that I get accused of being antinomian and accused of proclaiming the Law

Not at all. We see you do it all the time, expressing antinomian views but touting the law to others. Because, in the end, there is no true antinomian. They/you always end up under the law.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2021, 08:15:59 AM by Donald_Kirchner »
Don Kirchner

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Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4269 on: July 25, 2021, 04:00:38 AM »
Pastor Stoffregen:
Perhaps the question should be, why should an individual choice override what benefits the group? It seems to me that the logic should run the other way: what benefits the group should be primary rather than what benefits the individual. When is it OK for an individual to make a choice for the self that is in conflict with what benefits the group?

Pastor Kirchner:
Not only illogical, but where have we heard that unAmerican BS before and, then again, recently?

Me:
Ok, so who, Pastor Kirchner, is proclaiming individual choice as “unAmerican.”
Or is it concern for the group that is unAmerican?  What about the Mayflower Compact. Articles of Confederation. US Constitution, Pledge of Allegiance?
(Swords held high) “All for one, and one for all!”
Oops. No, that’s French. Those darned musketeers!


« Last Edit: July 25, 2021, 05:07:53 AM by Charles Austin »
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Article coming up in Lutheran Forum journal. Now would be a good time to subscribe.
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Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4270 on: July 25, 2021, 08:18:10 AM »
Pastor Stoffregen:
Perhaps the question should be, why should an individual choice override what benefits the group? It seems to me that the logic should run the other way: what benefits the group should be primary rather than what benefits the individual. When is it OK for an individual to make a choice for the self that is in conflict with what benefits the group?

Pastor Kirchner:
Not only illogical, but where have we heard that unAmerican BS before and, then again, recently?

Me:
Ok, so who, Pastor Kirchner, is proclaiming individual choice as “unAmerican.”

No one here that I know of.
Don Kirchner

"Heaven's OK, but it’s not the end of the world." Jeff Gibbs

D. Engebretson

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4271 on: July 25, 2021, 08:30:02 AM »
As vaccination rates lag and COVID cases again rise with the Delta Variant, businesses are weighing options regarding vaccine mandates.  On the news this morning this was discussed along with whether legal challenges to such mandates would be upheld.  Apparently the Supreme Court upheld such a mandate on Smallpox vaccination in 1905, perhaps setting a precedent they say federal courts may follow. It will be interesting to follow in the weeks and months to come. 
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4272 on: July 25, 2021, 08:35:23 AM »
"It’s going to get a little bit tight in terms of mom or dad being honest that Johnny did or did not get vaccinated. That’s going to raise questions... But I think what’s going to happen is you’re going to see this work out in ways that people are going to know in the community...

"Everybody knows in the community knows whether Johnny really did get the vaccination when he’s 15 or 17 years old. It’s a matter of community responsibility and I think you’re going to see it work through."  Joe Biden

Biden indicates that communities (i.e., the gov't,) utilizing snitches, would hold their members (i.e., citizens) accountable regarding vaccination status.  IOW, "what benefits the group should be primary rather than what benefits the individual."  :(
« Last Edit: July 25, 2021, 09:40:37 AM by Donald_Kirchner »
Don Kirchner

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D. Engebretson

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4273 on: July 25, 2021, 09:06:20 AM »
This act of citizen reporting on citizen to the government seems strangely reminiscent of another time in history in places elsewhere in the world.  Chilling.
Pastor Don Engebretson
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Michael Slusser

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #4274 on: July 25, 2021, 10:30:43 AM »
This act of citizen reporting on citizen to the government seems strangely reminiscent of another time in history in places elsewhere in the world.  Chilling.
It sounds to me more like simple social pressure, the old-fashioned simple mechanism for bringing people into line in many daily situations. Like the deli in the grocery store--"Who's next?" There's nothing sinister about the way customers make sure their order is followed.
     Now if you want something chilling, "citizen reporting on citizen to the government," try Texas' new heartbeat abortion law:
Quote
Instead of having the government enforce the law, the bill turns the reins over to private citizens — who are newly empowered to sue abortion providers or anyone who helps someone get an abortion after a fetal heartbeat has been detected. The person would not have to be connected to someone who had an abortion or to a provider to sue.
And they would get paid for denouncing:
Quote
People who sued would be awarded at least $10,000, as well as costs for attorney’s fees, if they won.
https://www.texastribune.org/2021/05/18/texas-heartbeat-bill-abortions-law/

Peace,
Michael
« Last Edit: July 25, 2021, 10:47:35 AM by Michael Slusser »
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