Author Topic: Coronavirus news  (Read 304001 times)

Pr. Terry Culler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3375 on: March 15, 2021, 03:00:59 PM »
And the time may come, as is the case with children in public schools, that these vaccinations will be required for full participation in civic life.
I do not believe that people who refuse to get the vaccine or who are opposed to the vaccinations simply lack care for their neighbors.(some are actually encouraging their neighbors not to get the vaccine.)
What they lack is common sense. And maybe some brain power?

With all due respect I'd be quite hesitant about suggesting this to my own members.  Those who are not ready to receive the vaccine have a number of reasons, and they are not due to a lack of intelligence or common sense.  While I am supportive of the vaccine, I realize that nothing is perfect, and many medicines have unintended side-effects.  Some people are waiting to see what those side-effects may be.  I respect their choice.


Is Charles looking toward establishing new voting tests or tests to serve in legislatures?  If so, we can be sure it won't happen as once again that pesky Constitution will raise its head.
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Steven W Bohler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3376 on: March 15, 2021, 03:04:37 PM »
And the time may come, as is the case with children in public schools, that these vaccinations will be required for full participation in civic life.
I do not believe that people who refuse to get the vaccine or who are opposed to the vaccinations simply lack care for their neighbors.(some are actually encouraging their neighbors not to get the vaccine.)
What they lack is common sense. And maybe some brain power?

With all due respect I'd be quite hesitant about suggesting this to my own members.  Those who are not ready to receive the vaccine have a number of reasons, and they are not due to a lack of intelligence or common sense.  While I am supportive of the vaccine, I realize that nothing is perfect, and many medicines have unintended side-effects.  Some people are waiting to see what those side-effects may be.  I respect their choice.


Is Charles looking toward establishing new voting tests or tests to serve in legislatures?  If so, we can be sure it won't happen as once again that pesky Constitution will raise its head.

Time for the Star of David-type badges for non-vaccinated?  Segregating them into their own ghettos?  Making them wear distinctive clothing?  Separate water fountains?  Back of the bus -- with appropriate dividers between the sections?  Requiring then to shout out: "Unclean!  Unclean!" if/when they are permitted out onto the streets?

Dave Likeness

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3377 on: March 15, 2021, 03:33:30 PM »
A good case can be made that those 70 yrs. old or older should seriously consider
getting the Covid 19 vaccine. This is  the most vulnerable group in our population.
I will get my second vaccine shot this Wednesday. 

Dan Fienen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3378 on: March 15, 2021, 03:34:34 PM »
And the time may come, as is the case with children in public schools, that these vaccinations will be required for full participation in civic life.
I do not believe that people who refuse to get the vaccine or who are opposed to the vaccinations simply lack care for their neighbors.(some are actually encouraging their neighbors not to get the vaccine.)
What they lack is common sense. And maybe some brain power?
This seems rather judgmental for someone who regularly calls out others for being judgmental.


Among my congregants, I know of no Covid cases of. And most are or intend to be vaccinated. I have two households who have told me that they are seriously doubting that they will be vaccinated. One, a older couple are rather doubtful of the vaccine based on a number of stories about the vaccine that they have read online that causes them to doubt the vaccine. The other in one of my shut-ins who rarely gets out and has a history of adverse reactions to vaccines. I'm not sure that her doctor is recommending the vaccine for her with her history.
Pr. Daniel Fienen
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JEdwards

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3379 on: March 15, 2021, 04:52:18 PM »
And the time may come, as is the case with children in public schools, that these vaccinations will be required for full participation in civic life.
I am as pro-vaccine as they come, but it's only fair to note that most experts argue that such a step would be premature before the FDA has given full, permanent approval to the vaccines.  Remember, all 3 vaccines currently in use in the US have "Emergency Use Authorization" based on the (correct, in my view) assessment that current knowledge of risks and benefits supports their use in the context of a public health emergency

Having said that, there is mounting evidence that the vaccine not only protects the recipient against symptomatic disease, but also protects against asymptomatic disease, thereby reducing the chance of transmission to another.  As a medical professional and a Christian, I think this is an important reason to be vaccinated, even if one is not at risk of personally developing severe disease.  But I think such encouragement is most likely to be effective in the context of a relationship of trust rather than as a mandate.

Peace,
Jon

Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3380 on: March 15, 2021, 05:25:47 PM »
Pastor Culler writes:
Is Charles looking toward establishing new voting tests or tests to serve in legislatures?  If so, we can be sure it won't happen as once again that pesky Constitution will raise its head.
I comment:
Not, I am not for “establishing tests,” at least not as a requirement for office. But wouldn’t it be interesting if we asked candidates to pass some tests on American history, the law and the constitution? Perhaps even something as simple as the test required for citizenship of foreigners?
Pastor Bohler over reacts:
Time for the Star of David-type badges for non-vaccinated?  Segregating them into their own ghettos?  Making them wear distinctive clothing?  Separate water fountains?  Back of the bus -- with appropriate dividers between the sections?  Requiring then to shout out: "Unclean!  Unclean!" if/when they are permitted out onto the streets?
I comment:
My, my! You are so eager to be offended. I simply note that in order for children to attend public schools, it is required that they be vaccinated for certain things. And I note that in the most recent pandemic, certain people were required to temporarily isolate themselves for public health reasons. If, in order to get on an airplane, a person were required to show that they had been vaccinated or tested for the virus, would you find that terrible? If you were not allowed into a store unless you wore a mask, would that be terrible?
And of course we are talking about an emergency public health situation, not labeling people according to their medical conditions.
Now here is where some "brain power" might come into play.
Are there "risks" to the vaccine? Of course. There are risks to everything. But the risks of getting vaccinated have proven to be very very small.
Are the risks of taking the vaccine worse than getting the disease it has a 95 percent chance of preventing?
As someone says: You do the math.
Then tell me why you think you should not get the vaccine.

Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Just finished six great days in a beach house on North Carolina’s Outer Banks, with a bunch of friends and relatives. About 18 of us, and the young folks did all the cooking.

Dave Benke

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3381 on: March 15, 2021, 05:31:40 PM »
Having said that, there is mounting evidence that the vaccine not only protects the recipient against symptomatic disease, but also protects against asymptomatic disease, thereby reducing the chance of transmission to another.  As a medical professional and a Christian, I think this is an important reason to be vaccinated, even if one is not at risk of personally developing severe disease.  But I think such encouragement is most likely to be effective in the context of a relationship of trust rather than as a mandate.[/b]

The bolded phrase resonates and applies especially, from my experience, to those who have strong relationships of trust, i.e. pastors and church leaders.  Some of my folks encouraged me to encourage others for that reason.  Encouragement and persuasion involve effort and coordination, so there's that.  But encouragement and persuasion are less than mandates, which I think is also the better way, even if and even though from a spiritual perspective there are Scriptural passages that could function as mandates. 

If you're a pastor who's not going to be vaccinated, unless there's a serious health reason, there's no way for you to encourage vaccination by others.  I'm trying to think back to my supervisory days and whether I'd visit with the non-vaccinating pastor, out of concern for his parishioners if not for him and his family.  And the answer is I would definitely give him a call and talk it through.

Dave Benke

Steven W Bohler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3382 on: March 15, 2021, 05:38:21 PM »
......Pastor Bohler over reacts:
Time for the Star of David-type badges for non-vaccinated?  Segregating them into their own ghettos?  Making them wear distinctive clothing?  Separate water fountains?  Back of the bus -- with appropriate dividers between the sections?  Requiring then to shout out: "Unclean!  Unclean!" if/when they are permitted out onto the streets?
I comment:
My, my! You are so eager to be offended. I simply note that in order for children to attend public schools, it is required that they be vaccinated for certain things. And I note that in the most recent pandemic, certain people were required to temporarily isolate themselves for public health reasons. If, in order to get on an airplane, a person were required to show that they had been vaccinated or tested for the virus, would you find that terrible? If you were not allowed into a store unless you wore a mask, would that be terrible?
And of course we are talking about an emergency public health situation, not labeling people according to their medical conditions....


Except that you wrote: "The time may come - this pandemic or the next or the next surge - that vaccinations may be required for other ways of participating in civil life."  That says nothing about for this emergency, but rather for the foreseeable future.  Without limits.  And the vague and rather sinister phrase "other ways of participating in civil life" could be used to defend the things that I whimsically listed.

Steven W Bohler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3383 on: March 15, 2021, 05:39:53 PM »
....Are the risks of taking the vaccine worse than getting the disease it has a 95 percent chance of preventing?
As someone says: You do the math.
Then tell me why you think you should not get the vaccine.

Because, as the science tells us, the survivability rate for all but the very elderly and very ill is about 99%.

James S. Rustad

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3384 on: March 15, 2021, 06:03:31 PM »
Germany suspends use of AstraZeneca vaccine, along with Italy, France, Spain
Germany has temporarily suspended the use of the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine as a precaution, with Italy, France and Spain issuing the same decision soon after.
...
"After new reports of thrombroses of the cerebral veins in connection with the vaccination in Germany and Europe, the PEI considers further investigations to be necessary," the Health Ministry announced.

It's important to note that the AstaZeneca vaccine is not yet approved for emergency use in the USA.  However, this does cast a different light on the wait and see attitude that some people have towards the COVID vaccines.

D. Engebretson

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3385 on: March 15, 2021, 06:08:23 PM »
Another article about the openness or resistance of being vaccinated among religious people - this one regarding the Evangelicals ("Why Won’t Evangelicals Get the Vaccine?" by Gene Veith):
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/geneveith/2021/03/why-wont-evangelicals-get-the-vaccine/?fbclid=IwAR2Y9gqlQOWQYK_N9N66ZsAWl1QKha0q9MD_G7KHXISTzFGE5WZE_ZC8aUE

According to the Pew study  that is the source of much of this data, the two biggest reasons for vaccine hesitancy are fear of side effects (72%) and concern that the vaccine was developed too quickly (67%).

And the issue is not just religious, but also political.  Another poll found that the biggest demographic of vaccine resistance comes from white Republicans  (which, of course, includes many white evangelicals).  Of this group, 36% say definitely that they will “never” get the shot.  (The 45% of evangelicals include those who say they “probably” won’t get it.) One factor often cited in being resistant to the vaccine–though not surveyed in these studies, as far as I can tell–is not trusting the government...


He addresses the pro-life argument, namely the supposed use of stem cells from aborted fetuses.  I know that the Catholic church has already addressed that, and Veith notes:
Vaccines are often manufactured using stem-cells from aborted fetuses, though these are not in the shots themselves.  Some COVID vaccines are made in this same way.  But, significantly, the most widely-available and the most effective vaccines in the United States today, the ones by Pfizer and Moderna, did not use aborted stem cells.The one-dose Johnson & Johnson shot did use them.  So did Astrazeneca.  But not Pfizer or Moderna. Aborted stem-cells were used to test these vaccines.  But that kind of testing can be used on all kinds of medicines and other products, but that does not necessarily implicate the products themselves.

This article will be continued tomorrow, so I assume he has more to offer in answer to the question in the title of the first article.





Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

Robert Johnson

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3386 on: March 15, 2021, 07:44:34 PM »
A good case can be made that those 70 yrs. old or older should seriously consider
getting the Covid 19 vaccine. This is  the most vulnerable group in our population.
I will get my second vaccine shot this Wednesday.

Yes. We have the highest probability of a serious illness, and we are in the age range where any long term issues with the vaccine are not a high probability outcome. The older you are, the more you should want the vaccine.

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3387 on: March 16, 2021, 12:09:03 AM »
A good case can be made that those 70 yrs. old or older should seriously consider
getting the Covid 19 vaccine. This is  the most vulnerable group in our population.
I will get my second vaccine shot this Wednesday.

Yes. We have the highest probability of a serious illness, and we are in the age range where any long term issues with the vaccine are not a high probability outcome. The older you are, the more you should want the vaccine.


And we should want it not just for ourselves, but I pursued it not just for my wife and I (who are in the over 65 age group, but especially for my 91-year-old mother. If only one slot was available, she would have received it. (As it was, there were enough slots for all three of us.) We're almost through the 14 day waiting period after the second shots.


Even though they are younger, we are concerned about my brothers (one who tested positive,) and our children. We'd like to be able to gather together safely in the near future. Our family likes getting together. Gathering in-person is better than the family zoom meetings we've been having.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2021, 12:10:42 AM by Brian Stoffregen »
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

James S. Rustad

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3388 on: March 20, 2021, 10:51:23 AM »
Wisconsin shuts down COVID-19 clinic at state fairgrounds as hospitalizations decline
...
The facility treated 170 people with COVID-19 between October 2020 and January 1, 2021. It also provided 37 individuals outpatient treatment at the Bamlanivimab (BAM) Infusion Clinic, which opened in late December.

It is now clear that we spent a bunch more money than needed on this facility.  'Course, hindsight is always 20-20.


Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #3389 on: March 20, 2021, 08:05:01 PM »
Wisconsin shuts down COVID-19 clinic at state fairgrounds as hospitalizations decline
...
The facility treated 170 people with COVID-19 between October 2020 and January 1, 2021. It also provided 37 individuals outpatient treatment at the Bamlanivimab (BAM) Infusion Clinic, which opened in late December.

It is now clear that we spent a bunch more money than needed on this facility.  'Course, hindsight is always 20-20.


In many places "an abundance of caution" has been the practice.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]