Author Topic: Coronavirus news  (Read 589568 times)

peter_speckhard

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1725 on: May 23, 2020, 11:11:10 AM »
Charles, if you think my position is to doubt the science, you are simply dense. Doubting the experts who repeatedly say things that turn out to be wrong is trusting the science. Science is knowledge collected via testing. The experts you look to demonstrate themselves to be unreliable, yet you claim relying solely on them is an act of faith in science. You have blind faith in experts (but only certain ones) despite their failings and call dogmatic trust going by science.

RandyBosch

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1726 on: May 23, 2020, 11:19:20 AM »
In his WSJ article, Holman Jenkins noted that "Those who talk of governments 'following the science', 'acting on the science', mow of whom could not give a coherent account of the science of anything, are like dogs who yap because the other dogs are yapping."
Nobody is perfect, and science by definition is to be open to new discoveries that update, prove or disprove theories.
I'm intensely supportive of proper science.
Much of this has devolved into "scientism" - our new secular religion.

Terry W Culler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1727 on: May 23, 2020, 11:22:12 AM »
We should all remember that "science" once believed the cure for pneumonia was a couple of great big leeches attached to the chest.   ???
Trying to be retired but failing

Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1728 on: May 23, 2020, 11:25:29 AM »
J.E. Writes:
By the way, if the Star were really interested in reporting the news rather than being the news their report would have been fair and balanced by including the prospective of those who hold an opinion different than theirs.
I have to comment:
Ye gods and little fishes! Another knee-jerk reaction from the usual crowd, and once again lowering the level of discourse here.
I posted one paragraph from a very long article which included all kinds of opinions.
It mightíve been sensible to read the whole article before replying.
And itís the Star-Tribune.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Iowa native. Now in Minneapolis. One must always ponder both the value and the dangers of poking the bear. Aroused and stimulated, the bear usually shows its true self. Or it might leap to an extreme version of itself. You never know with bears.

Richard Johnson

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1729 on: May 23, 2020, 11:28:51 AM »


We cannot control other congregations, and to limit the freedoms of all because of the irresponsibility of some, does not seem right. 

Our rector has had meetings with the local ministerial association, trying to work on some common policies about resuming in-person worship with the idea that we should try to be as consistent as possible (to avoid the "they're doing this, why can't we?" issues).

The one matter they decided not to address because of divergent opinions was congregational singing. Some of the pastors (most of whom are, shall we say, of the conservative evangelical persuasion) are convinced that the claim that singing is a major potential problem is a bunch of liberal BS. They cited a conservative "legal foundation" out here that has "done their own research" and determined that actually singing is the very safest thing you can do, safer than speaking.

Doesn't pass the smell test to me, but as our rector says, our county can become a test case to see who is right.
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

Richard Johnson

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1730 on: May 23, 2020, 11:31:06 AM »

One of my peeves along the way is that we're talking about the "re-opening" of churches.  We have not closed for a minute here in Brooklyn, in the center of the heart of corona death and infection. 

Well said.

Except many of our churches were NOT open.  The doors were locked.  No one was allowed inside, except for staff and the occasional emergency visit.  Bible studies were discontinued.  Our parochial school forced to do on-liine education.  Ladies groups and sewing groups and youth groups did not meet.  Yes, worship continued.  But not with the public.  That is not open, in my book.  So, I have been and will continue to announce that we are re-opening for services on May 31.

I guess it depends on how you understand "open," and what your congregation has done. Our congregation has continued virtually (in both senses of the word) every activity--Bible studies, worship, meetings, Sunday School, our weekly men's group. The only thing not "open" is the building, and that's not the church.
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

Steven W Bohler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1731 on: May 23, 2020, 11:33:55 AM »

One of my peeves along the way is that we're talking about the "re-opening" of churches.  We have not closed for a minute here in Brooklyn, in the center of the heart of corona death and infection. 

Well said.

Except many of our churches were NOT open.  The doors were locked.  No one was allowed inside, except for staff and the occasional emergency visit.  Bible studies were discontinued.  Our parochial school forced to do on-liine education.  Ladies groups and sewing groups and youth groups did not meet.  Yes, worship continued.  But not with the public.  That is not open, in my book.  So, I have been and will continue to announce that we are re-opening for services on May 31.

I guess it depends on how you understand "open," and what your congregation has done. Our congregation has continued virtually (in both senses of the word) every activity--Bible studies, worship, meetings, Sunday School, our weekly men's group. The only thing not "open" is the building, and that's not the church.

So, if someone broke into the building or there was a fire there, you would not say to the police or fire station: "Come to the church!"?

Richard Johnson

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1732 on: May 23, 2020, 11:36:07 AM »
Nope, I'd probably give the address.  8)
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1733 on: May 23, 2020, 11:37:45 AM »
The science, if I can use that word, on singing is rather of one mind and clear.
When you sing, you hurl millions of droplets out into the air around you. More droplets than if you speak. More droplets than if you speak loudly.
This of course, applies to real singing, not the mumbled murmurings with a semblance of tune that passes for singing in some churches.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Iowa native. Now in Minneapolis. One must always ponder both the value and the dangers of poking the bear. Aroused and stimulated, the bear usually shows its true self. Or it might leap to an extreme version of itself. You never know with bears.

DCharlton

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1734 on: May 23, 2020, 11:46:05 AM »
Bishop Eaton's latest Twitter Post:
The Presidentís call to return to in-person worship is reckless, divisive, dangerous. We have protocols for returning. The church has not been closed these past months. The Body of Christ is connected and worshiping. Is it ideal? No.This is cynical pandering to a vulnerable base.  https://twitter.com/ELCABishopEaton

This really saddens me.  Bishop Eaton is engaging in cynical pandering to her base even as she criticizes Trump for doing the same.  If Trump keeps this up, our bishops will be calling for public worship to be permanently cancelled.  That'll show him.
David Charlton  

Was Algul Siento a divinity school?

Richard Johnson

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1735 on: May 23, 2020, 11:47:22 AM »
Yeah, that's even worse than the California bishops. She should know better.
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

D. Engebretson

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1736 on: May 23, 2020, 12:04:41 PM »
Not conclusive, but some findings from scientists in Germany:
https://slippedisc.com/2020/05/two-munich-scientists-pronounce-singing-to-be-covid-safe/

That said, it appears that German churches are opening sans singing.

In the "Interim Guidance for Communities of Faith," the CDC notes:
Consider suspending or at least decreasing use of a choir/musical ensembles and congregant singing, chanting, or reciting during services or other programming, if appropriate within the faith tradition. The act of singing may contribute to transmission of COVID-19, possibly through emission of aerosols.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/faith-based.html

Note that they say "may contribute..."  They have not said that singing in church is absolutely proven to spread COVID-19.
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1737 on: May 23, 2020, 12:33:07 PM »
Pastor Charlton...
This really saddens me.  Bishop Eaton is engaging in cynical pandering to her base...
Me:
You mean speaking to the church she leads? How awful!
ďHer baseĒ? Base for what?
Retired ELCA Pastor. Iowa native. Now in Minneapolis. One must always ponder both the value and the dangers of poking the bear. Aroused and stimulated, the bear usually shows its true self. Or it might leap to an extreme version of itself. You never know with bears.

David Garner

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1738 on: May 23, 2020, 12:36:59 PM »

One of my peeves along the way is that we're talking about the "re-opening" of churches.  We have not closed for a minute here in Brooklyn, in the center of the heart of corona death and infection. 

Well said.

Except many of our churches were NOT open.  The doors were locked.  No one was allowed inside, except for staff and the occasional emergency visit.  Bible studies were discontinued.  Our parochial school forced to do on-liine education.  Ladies groups and sewing groups and youth groups did not meet.  Yes, worship continued.  But not with the public.  That is not open, in my book.  So, I have been and will continue to announce that we are re-opening for services on May 31.

I guess it depends on how you understand "open," and what your congregation has done. Our congregation has continued virtually (in both senses of the word) every activity--Bible studies, worship, meetings, Sunday School, our weekly men's group. The only thing not "open" is the building, and that's not the church.

How do you handle communion?
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

peter_speckhard

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