Author Topic: Coronavirus news  (Read 394489 times)

mariemeyer

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1080 on: April 18, 2020, 11:01:53 AM »
Addressing the health of USA citizens and their financial needs begins with more testing.  This is how other countries have slowed infections while slowly opening the shut down.

The  USA medical and scientific community continues to appeal for testing equipment.  President Trump has done little to provide funds for testing.  He just does not "get it."  Neither does Vice President Pence.


Marie Meyer 

Dan Fienen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1081 on: April 18, 2020, 11:06:31 AM »
‘Humans”, Pastor Fienen, can survive quite a lot of things. So let’s compare the  “human cost” in terms of people dying with the  “human cost” of shutdowns, unemployment, inconveniences or shortages of dollars.
Those latter things we can fix or survive; the former, not so much.
We first heard “the human cost of the shut down” from those who were minimizing the impact of the virus, and we are still hearing it from that sector.
Go ahead. Reckon with human cost.

Do you have any understanding of the human cost to people who have lost their jobs and now face hunger, loss of medical insurance, who perhaps face losing the business that served the public and to which they have invested years of their lives? It is not being suggested (except perhaps as a red herring by those who simply want to smear political opponents) that the country as a whole simply reopen up and drop all mitigation efforts. But is the opposite realistic, that we put the entire country on lock down until there are no new Covid-19 cases for several weeks anywhere in the country? Somehow we need to balance the risk of further infections with the risks of economic collapse.
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pastorg1@aol.com

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1082 on: April 18, 2020, 11:13:06 AM »
From page 69-

PS-  So far I’ve been able to intuit societal trends about two days before they happen as the local Cassandra.

My next prophecy is for civil disorder beginning with the continued uptick in crime, then some not so SIP gatherings, and businesses clandestinely going back to work ala Prohibition Era Speak-Easys.

Peter (”Told you so” Garrison)

So, you may ask, “What’s next, Cassandra?”

Passive-aggression; people simply doing what they think is right.

Example: Our local cigar store had their regulars on nicely-spaced benches enjoying their smokes and chatting with passersby. Surfers are parking past the closed state parking lots and paddling out, staying safely spaced in the lineup.

Harken unto me: My hobbies are vanguards of the public’s common sense.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2020, 11:16:23 AM by pastorg1@aol.com »
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Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1083 on: April 18, 2020, 11:27:39 AM »
Pastor Fienen:
Do you have any understanding of the human cost to people who have lost their jobs and now face hunger, loss of medical insurance, who perhaps face losing the business that served the public and to which they have invested years of their lives?
Me:
Yes. Obamacare. Universal insurance for everyone. More funding for the small business bailouts. And if they can’t be billed out, or there is no need for someone making buggy whips in their garage, then we need to find something else for those people to do.

Pastor Fienen
 It is not being suggested (except perhaps as a red herring by those who simply want to smear political opponents) that the country as a whole simply reopen up and drop all mitigation efforts.
Me:
Not now, but it was being suggested, or at least hints were thrown that direction.

Pastor Fienen:
But is the opposite realistic, that we put the entire country on lock down until there are no new Covid-19 cases for several weeks anywhere in the country? Somehow we need to balance the risk of further infections with the risks of economic collapse.
Me:
No one is suggesting that the whole country be locked down, because there’s absolutely no way that could be done. You tell me how you balance the risk. Balance the risk of more people dying against the risk of businesses facing economic disaster, or people losing jobs they have held for some time. Balance that. Tell me how you do it.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Article coming up in Lutheran Forum journal. Now would be a good time to subscribe.
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Steven W Bohler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1084 on: April 18, 2020, 11:37:55 AM »
Pastor Fienen:
Do you have any understanding of the human cost to people who have lost their jobs and now face hunger, loss of medical insurance, who perhaps face losing the business that served the public and to which they have invested years of their lives?
Me:
Yes. Obamacare. Universal insurance for everyone. More funding for the small business bailouts. And if they can’t be billed out, or there is no need for someone making buggy whips in their garage, then we need to find something else for those people to do.

Pastor Fienen
 It is not being suggested (except perhaps as a red herring by those who simply want to smear political opponents) that the country as a whole simply reopen up and drop all mitigation efforts.
Me:
Not now, but it was being suggested, or at least hints were thrown that direction.

Pastor Fienen:
But is the opposite realistic, that we put the entire country on lock down until there are no new Covid-19 cases for several weeks anywhere in the country? Somehow we need to balance the risk of further infections with the risks of economic collapse.
Me:
No one is suggesting that the whole country be locked down, because there’s absolutely no way that could be done. You tell me how you balance the risk. Balance the risk of more people dying against the risk of businesses facing economic disaster, or people losing jobs they have held for some time. Balance that. Tell me how you do it.

And where is this bail-out money going to come from?  Do you think there is some magic tree somewhere, where it grows?  Every week the economy is stopped means billions of lost dollars in wages and products, which means millions in lost tax revenue.  And your "buggy whip" comments come across as nothing less than a let-them-eat-cake moment from a man who is living on a fat retirement income in his luxury retirement home.

James S. Rustad

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1085 on: April 18, 2020, 11:45:47 AM »
70% of the the 125000 infected in the city are non-white, mostly black and hispanic.

Given that about 60% of the population in the city are non-white, this is not that large of a disparity.

Dan Fienen

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1086 on: April 18, 2020, 12:03:50 PM »
Pastor Fienen:
But is the opposite realistic, that we put the entire country on lock down until there are no new Covid-19 cases for several weeks anywhere in the country? Somehow we need to balance the risk of further infections with the risks of economic collapse.
Me:
No one is suggesting that the whole country be locked down, because there’s absolutely no way that could be done. You tell me how you balance the risk. Balance the risk of more people dying against the risk of businesses facing economic disaster, or people losing jobs they have held for some time. Balance that. Tell me how you do it.

I don't determine how to balance the risk. I have neither the expertise to assess the medical risks nor the expertise to assess the economic risks, nor the information to make an intelligent decision. That is above my pay grade. And I don't want to suggest that I am qualified.
Pr. Daniel Fienen
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Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1087 on: April 18, 2020, 12:06:21 PM »
Pastor Bohler:
And where is this bail-out money going to come from?  Do you think there is some magic tree somewhere, where it grows?  Every week the economy is stopped means billions of lost dollars in wages and products, which means millions in lost tax revenue.
Me:
The money will come from us. Yes, we will be taxed. Because taxes are one of the ways we help our neighbors.

Pastor Bohler:
And your "buggy whip" comments come across as nothing less than a let-them-eat-cake moment from a man who is living on a fat retirement income in his luxury retirement home.
Me:
You are way out of line. “Fat”? “Luxury”? Hah! And if I have a “fat retirement income” - which by almost any standard you apply, I do not, how do you suppose I and Beloved Spouse (or anyone else) got it? By working hard for 50+ years. By saving. By being in Social Security.
In short, by earning it. I thought you conservatives approved of that.
So back off.
So back off.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Article coming up in Lutheran Forum journal. Now would be a good time to subscribe.
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Voelker

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1088 on: April 18, 2020, 12:12:12 PM »
Pastor Bohler:
And where is this bail-out money going to come from?  Do you think there is some magic tree somewhere, where it grows?  Every week the economy is stopped means billions of lost dollars in wages and products, which means millions in lost tax revenue.
Me:
The money will come from us. Yes, we will be taxed. Because taxes are one of the ways we help our neighbors.
You will be forced to "help". Nice people.

D. Engebretson

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1089 on: April 18, 2020, 12:22:11 PM »
Dr. Fauci has described a "rolling reentry" once the lock down is ended.  No doubt we can't just open the gates all at once.  That said, many are wondering if that "rolling reentry" couldn't be adapted geographically, understanding that some parts of the country are less at risk than others, especially the less populated ones.  Of course this reentry would be in a staged manner and qualified.  No large concert venues, youth camps put on hold for a while, etc.  Keep the social distancing. Wear the masks, if necessary.  But why can't the hospitals in small towns and rural areas like mine resume elective surgeries and other medical procedures deemed "non-essential" when bracing for the onslaught of the virus, especially since it is apparent that we are not at the same, heightened risk level?  And if safe distancing was practiced along with other safety practices, why couldn't the restaurants and coffee shops be opened again?  Weather is finally breaking here in the great white north, so some of the dining can now be practiced outside, reducing the number of people inside one room.  In Wisconsin we are in lock down until Memorial Day.  In my country, and several others in the rural areas, not one documented case has been found.  Again, I'm not asking to go back to where we were.  We can't.  In fact, we won't for some time.  But this "rolling reentry" can start now with necessarily safety precautions.
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

Steven W Bohler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1090 on: April 18, 2020, 12:24:44 PM »
Pastor Bohler:
And where is this bail-out money going to come from?  Do you think there is some magic tree somewhere, where it grows?  Every week the economy is stopped means billions of lost dollars in wages and products, which means millions in lost tax revenue.
Me:
The money will come from us. Yes, we will be taxed. Because taxes are one of the ways we help our neighbors.

Pastor Bohler:
And your "buggy whip" comments come across as nothing less than a let-them-eat-cake moment from a man who is living on a fat retirement income in his luxury retirement home.
Me:
You are way out of line. “Fat”? “Luxury”? Hah! And if I have a “fat retirement income” - which by almost any standard you apply, I do not, how do you suppose I and Beloved Spouse (or anyone else) got it? By working hard for 50+ years. By saving. By being in Social Security.
In short, by earning it. I thought you conservatives approved of that.
So back off.
So back off.

I'm fine with people earning and saving money.  As long as they don't start advocating taking what belongs to others.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2020, 01:01:17 PM by Steven W Bohler »

D. Engebretson

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1091 on: April 18, 2020, 12:40:46 PM »
I do think that this sudden economic crisis has revealed another issue that our country ought to look at and address.  When there are folks driving up to the food bank in a Lexus you have to wonder if they were living literally at the edge of their means with no safety net in place.  And that is the case with a lot of others.  We are a credit-laden society, and it is not helped when much of the government is leveraged in a similar way.  When you live on borrowed money you live on borrowed time. 
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

Coach-Rev

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1092 on: April 18, 2020, 12:50:40 PM »
I fail to understand the logic of protesting the "shutdown." Covid-19 is highly contagious and had it not been restrained, there would have been a "natural" economic shutdown since few would be able to go to work.

There is no question that the current situation is devastating. The alternate scenario would be no better and could have been worse health wise and economically.

Alleluia! Christ is risen!  Peace, JOHN

But there is conflicting information even on this.  I've run across two articles, both of which contain information saying that the virus runs it's course with or without precautions.  It's hard to know what to believe these days, honestly.  https://www.afa.net/the-stand/culture/2020/04/shutdowns-were-pointless-all-along/
"The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." - Abraham Lincoln

blog:  http://coach-rev.blogspot.com/
photography:  https://jeffcottingham.smugmug.com/

Charles Austin

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1093 on: April 18, 2020, 12:54:58 PM »
Pastor Bohler:
I'm fine with people earning and saving money.  As long as they don't start advocating what belongs to others.
Me:
Then I assume you oppose all taxation, and you’re refusing to pay taxes because tax money takes what you say belongs to you and gives it to others. Am I right?
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Article coming up in Lutheran Forum journal. Now would be a good time to subscribe.
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Steven W Bohler

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Re: Coronavirus news
« Reply #1094 on: April 18, 2020, 01:03:30 PM »
Pastor Bohler:
I'm fine with people earning and saving money.  As long as they don't start advocating what belongs to others.
Me:
Then I assume you oppose all taxation, and you’re refusing to pay taxes because tax money takes what you say belongs to you and gives it to others. Am I right?

As is not uncommon with you, you assume wrongly.