Author Topic: Lutherans and Socialism  (Read 1644 times)

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Lutherans and Socialism
« Reply #60 on: September 26, 2021, 05:43:01 PM »
If one doesn't like paying taxes, stop earning so much money. Move to a state that doesn't have sales tax.

And there we go.  If we were not so productive, the government would not take our money.  That's twisted.


One can be productive without earning a salary: volunteering at a food back, for example. There were a number of people, back in my day, who reduced their income so that they wouldn't be paying federal taxes in support of the Vietnam war.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Charles Austin

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Re: Lutherans and Socialism
« Reply #61 on: September 26, 2021, 06:39:24 PM »
And one of the best religion news writers I ever knew back in the day, a freelancer he, never worried about taxes. He never made enough to pay very much.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Watching the Tonys Sunday night, and what talent! What music! What a treasure Broadway theater and its people are! And this year, the concern for our society our culture and our nation, in diversity in the pandemic and in the arts was inspiring.

Robert Johnson

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Re: Lutherans and Socialism
« Reply #62 on: September 26, 2021, 07:12:05 PM »
And that old “food pyramid“ was partly fabricated by those selling certain food products. And at a time when we barely knew body chemistry and how nutrition truly works.

Yeah, so that makes the feds who propagated that nonsense as innocents.

DeHall1

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Re: Lutherans and Socialism
« Reply #63 on: September 26, 2021, 11:01:12 PM »
Schools are not a necessary function of government.

I know we have discussed and debated the idea of the public school system before.  In principle I am not against it.  My three children when to a public high school. A lot of good people teach at these schools, and a lot of good people send their children there.

But I am fearing that the public school system, as well as the public university system, is becoming more and more an extension of the government with regard to indoctrination of social mores and accepted social constructs. And I'm not referring to the usual mores and constructs that required civil behavior that did not engage in physical harm or verbal abuse.  We are clearly a divided country on a long list of issues, and the government more and more seems intent in closing that gap of division by enacting laws of social conformity and through an educational system of indoctrination.

And this is already having an impact on the educational choices families are making. Many families are looking to alternatives such a home schooling and church-based schools. There is an annual homeschooling growth rate of 2%-8%. By the end of last year as many as 9 million children were being homeschooled. For more statistics, etc. see: https://admissionsly.com/homeschooling-statistics/

If the government is considered ultimately responsible for the pre-college education of our youth, this has implications, as well, on how they are going to treat these alternative forms of education.  For if the U.S. Department of Education considers it their duty to not only set academic standards, but also social standards, then it's only a matter of time before greater control in that area will extend to home schooling and religious schools.  I'm not sure how they would do it in the former case, other than demanding documentation that certain instruction takes place with submitted reports/tests, etc.

So, I would obviously prefer less, not more control of the government in the area of education.


a liberal arts education will naturally tilt towards liberalism.

You do know that “liberal” in “liberal arts” is not a reference to any political philosophy, right?  Math is considered a liberal art”, as is any of the physical sciences.

Charles Austin

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Re: Lutherans and Socialism
« Reply #64 on: September 26, 2021, 11:03:47 PM »
Really? I never took a single math course in college.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Watching the Tonys Sunday night, and what talent! What music! What a treasure Broadway theater and its people are! And this year, the concern for our society our culture and our nation, in diversity in the pandemic and in the arts was inspiring.

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Lutherans and Socialism
« Reply #65 on: Yesterday at 12:19:42 AM »
Really? I never took a single math course in college.

Your point is...? I never took a botany course in college, but I graduated with a BA from the U of Minnesota College of Liberal Arts. And y'all have figured out that I ain't no lib! But granted, that was a couple of generations ago.  ;)
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J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: Lutherans and Socialism
« Reply #66 on: Yesterday at 12:37:50 AM »
Really? I never took a single math course in college.

I truly feel sorry for you in having received a deficient undergraduate education.

I received a Minor in Mathematics...debating "fuzzy subsets" was good preparation for sparring with fuzzy theology.
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Charles Austin

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Re: Lutherans and Socialism
« Reply #67 on: Yesterday at 05:02:11 AM »
I believe one is allowed to be ignorant about two, maybe three fields. Mine are mathematics and Chinese art.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Watching the Tonys Sunday night, and what talent! What music! What a treasure Broadway theater and its people are! And this year, the concern for our society our culture and our nation, in diversity in the pandemic and in the arts was inspiring.

James S. Rustad

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Re: Lutherans and Socialism
« Reply #68 on: Yesterday at 09:02:30 AM »
If one doesn't like paying taxes, stop earning so much money. Move to a state that doesn't have sales tax.

And there we go.  If we were not so productive, the government would not take our money.  That's twisted.

One can be productive without earning a salary: volunteering at a food back, for example. There were a number of people, back in my day, who reduced their income so that they wouldn't be paying federal taxes in support of the Vietnam war.

I see you are playing word games again like Humpty Dumpty.

“When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’"

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Lutherans and Socialism
« Reply #69 on: Yesterday at 12:19:55 PM »
If one doesn't like paying taxes, stop earning so much money. Move to a state that doesn't have sales tax.

And there we go.  If we were not so productive, the government would not take our money.  That's twisted.

One can be productive without earning a salary: volunteering at a food back, for example. There were a number of people, back in my day, who reduced their income so that they wouldn't be paying federal taxes in support of the Vietnam war.

I see you are playing word games again like Humpty Dumpty.

“When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’"


Nope. I knew farmers and ranchers who produced a lot of crops and meat; but because the way the market goes; they didn't earn any money. The price they received for their production was less than it cost to produce it. Being productive isn't the same thing as earning money.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Richard Johnson

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Re: Lutherans and Socialism
« Reply #70 on: Yesterday at 08:30:19 PM »
I believe one is allowed to be ignorant about two, maybe three fields. Mine are mathematics and Chinese art.

I went to a state college, and was ignorant about many fields, including my major (philosophy). In seminary at Yale, I used to propose a tavern game. I told my fellow students that I had graduated summa cum laude with a degree in philosophy. The game was to try to name a philosopher I had actually read. You get one point for each correct answer, and if you get to five, you win. Nobody ever won.  :o
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