Author Topic: Election 2020  (Read 249335 times)

Richard Johnson

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4440 on: November 05, 2020, 10:38:24 PM »
As a Democrat, I'm really upset. We've done such a good job rigging the vote count for Biden, but we've utterly failed to flip the Senate and increase the House majority. Heads are going to roll!
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

Pastor Ken Kimball

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4441 on: November 05, 2020, 11:18:56 PM »
As a Democrat, I'm really upset. We've done such a good job rigging the vote count for Biden, but we've utterly failed to flip the Senate and increase the House majority. Heads are going to roll!
Time to get out the "Mr. Happy" shirt Richard and the cow singing Bobby McFerrin's "Don't Worry, Be Happy!"   ;D

Richard Johnson

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4442 on: November 05, 2020, 11:59:12 PM »
I've got them here somewhere . . .  ;D
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

mj4

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4443 on: November 06, 2020, 01:24:10 AM »
As a Democrat, I'm really upset. We've done such a good job rigging the vote count for Biden, but we've utterly failed to flip the Senate and increase the House majority. Heads are going to roll!

No, think of the fund raising possibilities that presents. Speaker Pelosi can continue to send out alarmist fund raising letters about what an existential threat the Republicans are. Ice cream for everyone!

James J Eivan

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4444 on: November 06, 2020, 01:32:42 AM »
As a Democrat, I'm really upset. We've done such a good job rigging the vote count for Biden, but we've utterly failed to flip the Senate and increase the House majority. Heads are going to roll!
No, think of the fund raising possibilities that presents. Speaker Pelosi can continue to send out alarmist fund raising letters about what an existential threat the Republicans are. Ice cream for everyone!
Realistically she should be blamed for the loss of Dem House seats ... there was talk of replacing her in 2019 ... why not retire her now ... even if it means the second woman speaker ... as long as it is not AOC or one of the squad.🤭🤭

Mbecker

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4445 on: November 06, 2020, 01:38:11 AM »
It is rather concerning that PA officials are apparently not allowing observers as is required by law.  If there is nothing to hide, why are they fighting court orders to allowing these observers into counting sites?

Honestly ... initially it appeared the president may have lost ... the more irregularities and downright fraud are being exposed ... and the fear on the MSM to allow the president to speak, the more apparent it is that while local poll workers worked for a fair and honest election, the tabulation process ripe with fraud. 

James,
Official GOP observers have been observing the counting in Pennsylvania from the start. The only issue has been from what distance they must do their observing. It had been 10 feet because of concerns about covid. A judge ruled that the observers must be allowed to observe from six feet. So now the watchers are four feet closer to the action.

Whether ten feet away or six feet away, GOP observers have been observing the counting in Pennsylvania. They have been able to see the entire set-up of the canvassing room and could watch in detail every stage of the counting process. They don't have to use binoculars now.

https://www.inquirer.com/news/trump-fact-check-pennsylvania-ballot-philadelphia-president-20201105.html

There is no evidence of significant, game-changing voter fraud or of any widespread "voter irregularities" in any state. Certainly nothing amounting to a level that would change the outcome of the election(s).

Matt Becker




Charles Austin

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4446 on: November 06, 2020, 04:24:14 AM »
The anonymous (although I may be getting closer) “Julio” is apparently incapable of discussing the topic of this thread.
He can only waste words in personal attacks.
Moderators?
I won’t waste more words responding.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

John_Hannah

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4447 on: November 06, 2020, 08:29:26 AM »
David Brooks this morning. His wisdom seems to me especially apt for us Lutheran Christians today.   ;D

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/05/opinion/trump-biden-voters.html

Peace, JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

D. Engebretson

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4448 on: November 06, 2020, 08:52:39 AM »
As the results get ever closer to a final count, it continues to appear that Biden will gain the 270 needed.  I know there will be wrangling over irregularities, recounts, etc., but I'm already looking ahead now to what the new political landscape signifies at least for the next two years.

Since the "blue wave" did not materialize, regardless of last minute final vote counts, the dynamics of governance will be far less one sided (than perhaps hoped in some quarters), or, for that matter, "progressive".  In a highly divisive country our leaders will need to find a way to govern without appealing to or appeasing the edges.  Unless we are going to live in perpetual gridlock for the next couple of years - or longer - they need to find a way to move to middle ground and talk.  I don't think that personalities like Sanders or AOC or "The Squad" can be the front runners in this new era of governance.  If they are government will be essentially ineffective on the really large issues it needs to address and move forward on.

So the "Green Deal" will have to give way to more politically realistic energy policies.  "Medicare For All" will have to be set aside for a more balanced discussion on health care.  Approaches to funding law enforcement will have to back away from the idea of "defunding".  Yes, there may be sectors of our country itching for big, radical moves away from the 'way we've always done it.' But there are also sectors in this country who do not side with the progressive agenda.  Look at the very, very tight race we are in at the moment.  Even if Biden wins, and I'm still conceding that he will, the margin of victory hardly signals a mandate to steamroll over the red of this country as if they do not count.  If he is serious about governing as a president that represents all people, then he cannot adopt all his stump policies as is.

It will be interesting to see if Biden can move, like Bill Clinton, more to the middle to govern.  His platform going into the election was touted as the most progressive as any to date.  But now he will have to be a president "for all the people."  Can he do it?  Can he work in a deeply divided country without widening the division even more?

Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

David Garner

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4449 on: November 06, 2020, 09:04:54 AM »
As the results get ever closer to a final count, it continues to appear that Biden will gain the 270 needed.  I know there will be wrangling over irregularities, recounts, etc., but I'm already looking ahead now to what the new political landscape signifies at least for the next two years.

Since the "blue wave" did not materialize, regardless of last minute final vote counts, the dynamics of governance will be far less one sided (than perhaps hoped in some quarters), or, for that matter, "progressive".  In a highly divisive country our leaders will need to find a way to govern without appealing to or appeasing the edges.  Unless we are going to live in perpetual gridlock for the next couple of years - or longer - they need to find a way to move to middle ground and talk.  I don't think that personalities like Sanders or AOC or "The Squad" can be the front runners in this new era of governance.  If they are government will be essentially ineffective on the really large issues it needs to address and move forward on.

So the "Green Deal" will have to give way to more politically realistic energy policies.  "Medicare For All" will have to be set aside for a more balanced discussion on health care.  Approaches to funding law enforcement will have to back away from the idea of "defunding".  Yes, there may be sectors of our country itching for big, radical moves away from the 'way we've always done it.' But there are also sectors in this country who do not side with the progressive agenda.  Look at the very, very tight race we are in at the moment.  Even if Biden wins, and I'm still conceding that he will, the margin of victory hardly signals a mandate to steamroll over the red of this country as if they do not count.  If he is serious about governing as a president that represents all people, then he cannot adopt all his stump policies as is.

It will be interesting to see if Biden can move, like Bill Clinton, more to the middle to govern.  His platform going into the election was touted as the most progressive as any to date.  But now he will have to be a president "for all the people."  Can he do it?  Can he work in a deeply divided country without widening the division even more?

This is all wise counsel, and I'll add this -- Republicans are all but certain to hold the Senate.  The Alaska race has a wide margin and I'd wager mail in ballots won't be as heavily skewed as in other states due to distance and climate.  Sullivan almost certainly wins that.  He polled ahead consistently, and I have yet to see the polls that were off in favor of a Republican, so he likely wins.  Simple math says Tillis in NC also likely holds on (and the president likely holds his lead there too).  In Georgia, the runoff election will not be nearly as competitive, and Purdue has more votes than Ossoff now and the combined Collins/Loeffler and other Republicans vote is ahead of Warnock and the other Democrats.  So basically, in a runoff scenario, the Republicans are well positioned to have a 2 seat majority in the Senate.

Given that, hardcore obstructionism or partisanship will damage the party that does it.  The media always skews things to the Democrats' favor, but this election has taught us that the American people are not nearly as easily led as they and other institutions might prefer.  Republicans have gained seats in the House and history indicates the House is likely to flip in 2022. We have divided government for the foreseeable future.  Republicans held most state houses as well, meaning redistricting will be in their hands.

The point is, Donald Trump has probably lost the presidency.  Fairly, despite accusations of tampering and funny business.  If he has not, the recounts in Wisconsin and probably Georgia and Arizona and elsewhere will bear that out.  If he has, the recounts will hopefully put to rest the idea that improper votes were counted and we can move on.

This is a net win for Republicans mostly because Trump was the worst thing about the Trump presidency.  He is acerbic, loose with facts, angry, and governs in such an arbitrary and knee jerk fashion that he lost a lot of core Republican support.  But he also showed that Republicans can make inroads with Latinos and African Americans, particularly men.  And that is a lesson that Republicans would do well to learn from and build on. 

We have the Supreme Court, and it will not be packed in a Biden Administration.  Time will soften the urge to do so, as will electoral consequences for those who most loudly push for it.  Same with DC and Puerto Rico statehood. 

We put too much stock in the presidency.  It is important, but not nearly as important as the Congress and the Courts.  Instead of worrying about who is cheating whom and where, here in Georgia I intend to encourage folks to get out and vote in the runoff election.  Personally, assuming a Biden/Harris win, a Republican Senate and gains in the House, I like where this election landed.  Those of us who are pro family, moderate and not beholden to woke culture came out big this time.  We are in the driver's seat.  And without Trump to steer us in the ditch, I anticipate we are likely to remain there for a long time to come.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

Charles Austin

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4450 on: November 06, 2020, 09:06:30 AM »
Pastor Engebretson:
So the "Green Deal" will have to give way to more politically realistic energy policies.  "Medicare For All" will have to be set aside for a more balanced discussion on health care.  Approaches to funding law enforcement will have to back away from the idea of "defunding".  Yes, there may be sectors of our country itching for big, radical moves away from the 'way we've always done it.' But there are also sectors in this country who do not side with the progressive agenda.  Look at the very, very tight race we are in at the moment.  Even if Biden wins, and I'm still conceding that he will, the margin of victory hardly signals a mandate to steamroll over the red of this country as if they do not count.  If he is serious about governing as a president that represents all people, then he cannot adopt all his stump policies as is.

Me:
Yes, this is true. Those who scream about the extremists in the Democratic Party are just blowing smoke.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4451 on: November 06, 2020, 09:18:13 AM »
Pastor Engebretson:
So the "Green Deal" will have to give way to more politically realistic energy policies.  "Medicare For All" will have to be set aside for a more balanced discussion on health care.  Approaches to funding law enforcement will have to back away from the idea of "defunding".  Yes, there may be sectors of our country itching for big, radical moves away from the 'way we've always done it.' But there are also sectors in this country who do not side with the progressive agenda.  Look at the very, very tight race we are in at the moment.  Even if Biden wins, and I'm still conceding that he will, the margin of victory hardly signals a mandate to steamroll over the red of this country as if they do not count.  If he is serious about governing as a president that represents all people, then he cannot adopt all his stump policies as is.

Me:
Yes, this is true. Those who scream about the extremists in the Democratic Party are just blowing smoke.
So we’re agreed that the Green New Deal and Medicare for all are extremist positions? That we who think so could count on your support to vote against candidates who promote them? Or is this another one of those “Quit shouting about something that isn’t real” things that turns into a “It is the reality now whether you like it or not and anyone with half a brain should have seen this coming long ago” thing in a few years?

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4452 on: November 06, 2020, 09:19:08 AM »
The Trump rant, attempting to undermine democracy, fact-checked:
TRUMP: “We’re hearing stories that are horror stories. ... We think there is going to be a lot of litigation because we have so much evidence and so much proof.”
THE FACTS: Trump has produced no evidence of systemic problems in voting or counting. In fact, the ballot-counting process across the country has been running smoothly for the most part, even with the U.S. in the throes of the coronavirus pandemic.
One of his main complaints, that counting spilled over past Election Day, is meritless. No presidential election has had all the votes counted the same day, and there is no law or even expectation that that should be the case. The surge in mailed ballots and the high turnout have made the process slower than usual in some, but not all, cases.

PENNSYLVANIA
TRUMP: “In Pennsylvania partisan Democrats have allowed ballots in the state to be received three days after the election and we think much more than that and they are counting those without any postmarks or any identification whatsoever.”
THE FACTS: “Partisan Democrats” didn’t ordain this. It was the state Supreme Court that ruled ballots mailed before the end of Election Day could be received up to three days later and still be counted. The U.S. Supreme Court examined the case and did not stand in the way of the three-day timeframe. It may review the matter again later.
A number of other states have also made accommodations for the crush of mailed ballots.

TRUMP: “Pennsylvania Democrats have gone to the state Supreme Court to try and ban our election observers. ... They don’t want anybody in there. They don’t want anybody watching them while they are counting the ballots.”
THE FACTS: That’s false. He is wholly misrepresenting a court case in the state. No one tried to ban poll watchers representing each side in the election. Democrats did not try to stop Republican representatives from being able to observe the process.
The main issue in the case was how close observers representing the parties could get to election workers who are processing mail-in ballots in Philadelphia. The Trump campaign sued to allow the observers to get closer than the guidelines had allowed. A court ruled in favor of that request.

MICHIGAN
TRUMP: “Our campaign has been denied access to observe any counting in Detroit.”
THE FACTS: That’s false.
Absentee ballots were counted at a downtown convention center, where some 134 counting boards were set up. Each party was allowed one poll watcher per board, said City Clerk Janice Winfrey. She said she was not aware of any Republican poll watchers being removed but noted some had been “very aggressive, trying to intimidate the poll workers and processors.”
Mark Brewer, former chairman of the Michigan Democratic Party, said he was inside the convention center and access was cut off to some people from both sides at one point because of capacity restrictions related to the pandemic.

GEORGIA
TRUMP: “The election apparatus in Georgia is run by Democrats.”
THE FACTS: No, the state’s elections are overseen by a Republican, Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger.

TRUMP: “The 11th Circuit ruled that in Georgia the votes have to be in by Election Day, that they should be in by Election Day. And they weren’t. Votes are coming in after Election Day.”
THE FACTS: That’s not an accurate description of the ruling in question or what happened in the election in Georgia.
Although the court ruled that votes must be in by 7 p.m. Election Day for them to count, an exception was made for ballots from the members of U.S. Military serving overseas. Those can be received until 5 p.m. Friday and still count. Election officials in Georgia are still counting votes, but they are votes that have been lawfully received.

‘ILLEGAL’ VOTES
TRUMP: “If you count the legal votes, I easily win. if you count the illegal votes, they can try to steal the election from us.”
THE FACTS: This is baseless.
Neither Trump’s campaign aides nor election officials have identified substantial numbers of “illegal” votes, much less the mammoth numbers it would take to ruin an easy win by Trump. He frequently speaks as if mail-in voting itself is illegitimate. But it unfolded in accordance with state voting rules, in some cases adapted by officials to help voters get through the pandemic safely.

TRUMP, complaining that underhanded activity sapped his leads in important races: “We were winning all the key locations, by a lot actually.”
THE FACTS: The change in fortunes he speaks about is explained by the nature of vote counting in the states, not by any sudden surge of malfeasance that others have not seen.
Often, big cities are slower to report their numbers, and those votes tend skew Democratic. Likewise, many states tend to count mail-in ballots at the end of the process. That portion of the vote has tended to favor Biden, particularly because Trump urged his supporters in advance to avoid mail-in voting and to vote in person either early or on Election Day.
Trump finished election night with leads in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin and Georgia, among the states most in play, then saw his advantage begin to fray Wednesday and past that. Biden won Wisconsin and Michigan; Georgia and Pennsylvania can’t yet be called.


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Charles Austin

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4453 on: November 06, 2020, 09:22:49 AM »
Peter:
So we’re agreed that the Green New Deal and Medicare for all are extremist positions? That we who think so could count on your support to vote against candidates who promote them?
Me:
No, but when it comes to actually making legislation, everything is up for discussion and compromise.That’s why ultra conservative evangelicals fail as politicians. If you believe you have the actual word of God in what you propose, you can’t compromise. And if you do, those who supported you will call you a traitor or heretic.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

Randy Bosch

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4454 on: November 06, 2020, 09:27:20 AM »
One of the most interesting question to come out of this election, if current trends prevail, is:

What will the huge "Orange Man Bad" industry do without him?