Author Topic: Election 2020  (Read 249376 times)

James S. Rustad

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4425 on: November 05, 2020, 02:35:34 PM »
Remove the electoral college and the big cities will rule.  That's a nightmare to a country boy like me.
I find it interesting that arguments in favor of the electoral college (which I think have some merit) are similar in many ways to arguments in favor of quotas or affirmative action, in that both value some structural obstacle to pure majoritarianism in decision making for the sake of ensuring that folks with dramatically different experiences, living situations, and perspectives all get to have some meaningful voice in important decisions.  And yet, some of the strongest supporters of the EC are opponents of quotas, and vice-versa.

Peace,
Jon

Much of the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights is structured so as to protect minorities from the tyranny of the majority.  Without those protections, a majority of US citizens could decide to have the government do literally anything to the rest of the people.  Such use of government is abuse.

I reject your contention that quotas and affirmative action are similar when instituted by government.  In neither case are the beneficiaries being protected from government abuse.  Instead, government-required quotas and affirmative action are ways to grant benefits to some people while forcing others to pay for that benefit.  Doing so is going down the bread and circuses route.


Richard Johnson

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Re: Election 20
« Reply #4426 on: November 05, 2020, 04:47:07 PM »
But your “point,” Pastor Cottingham, is rarely on topic and mostly about what you believe to be true about me.
I’ll ignore you if you lay off the personal.

Now on topic:
So it looks like we might know everything by tomorrow night.

Charles, the last 4 replies prior to this exchange that you made to me were AFTER you pledged a reciprocal "ignore" agreement, and were all responses made to which I made no mention of you.  So it is not I that needs a lecture on "laying off the personal."

You both do.
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

Charles Austin

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4427 on: November 05, 2020, 04:57:37 PM »
I will now try to vow that I will say nothing personal about Pastor Cottingham.  (Except I might use his name if I reply.) Now if he sets aside of the allegations of hypocrisy, maybe we made some progress.
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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4428 on: November 05, 2020, 06:18:53 PM »
Nice rhetorical sleight of hand.

Peter (E, presto!) Garrison
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Charles Austin

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4429 on: November 05, 2020, 07:38:14 PM »
From Tomorrow's New York Times, my emphasis added:
President Trump broke a two-day silence with reporters to deliver a brief statement filled with egregious falsehoods and smears about the election process as workers in a handful of states continued to tabulate votes.
   The president painted the election results so far as part of a broad conspiracy to deprive him of a second term by Democrats, election officials in various cities and the news media.
   “If you count the legal votes, I easily win,” Mr. Trump began when he took the podium in the White House briefing room, a false statement that cast aspersion on the rest of the election. He offered no evidence; instead, he listed a series of conspiracy theories about why ballots arrived late in some places.
   At the same time that he insisted that Democrats were figuring out how many mail-in ballots they needed to counteract his performance in various states, the president listed a series of successful Republican wins on Tuesday and appeared unaware of the cognitive dissonance in saying that other Republicans had won while he lost as he claimed a plot to harm him.

And in other news:
   Twitter has labeled nearly 40 percent of the President's tweets the last couple of days as false or misleading, saying he was wrong about the electoral process and other matters.
   Were I an official in one of the places - Detroit, for example - he mentioned in his sweeping, unsubstantiated wildings about improper voting,  I would say: "Mr. President, bring it on. Bring your claims to court, prove your case. It's already clear that you and your lawyers are failing in most of your court cases on the matter. But let's go. Prove that we have mishandled anything."
   His lawyers are even filing suits and challenging counts in places where - wait for it - he is winning. And one lawyer cited in a television network described one of his lawsuits as looking like it had been written by a first-year law student who didn't know the right words to use.
the network also said it appeared that the "big names" "high-power" constitutional and election law lawyers were not involved in the suits, suggesting that they may have turned down the chance to ruin their careers by taking part in these suits.
   The president's words and deeds are acts of desperation from a man who knows that he has lost. And should the vote counts in the final states nonetheless turn the presidency over to him, we will have additional information about the kind of man we have elected.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2020, 07:49:28 PM by Charles Austin »
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Julio

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Thursday’s Presidential Address
« Reply #4430 on: November 05, 2020, 08:04:58 PM »
The President spoke to the nation ... or attempted to.   Similar to early Wednesday morning, the MSM preempted the President ...first ABC ... next NBC ... finally CBS.

For the entire Thursday Presidential speech ... beginning 20:30 into the video...

https://m.youtube.com/watcv=ni40sjwxjDg

The afternoon Sean Hannity radio program promises that the 8p eastern Sean Hannity program on Fox will provide concrete evidence of voter irregularities and other legal issues that will have to be resolved before the final voting results can be certified.

Without access to Fox News, look for YouTube segments afterwards.

The day we entrust our fact checking to tyrannical big tech,Twitter specifically, the country has lost its soul!🤐


Charles Austin

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4432 on: November 05, 2020, 08:53:33 PM »
The News:
Nineteen former United States attorneys — all of whom served under Republican presidents — released a statement on Thursday calling President Trump’s legal threats, claims of fraud and false declarations of victory “premature, baseless and reckless.”
“We hereby call upon the president to patiently and respectfully allow the lawful vote-counting process to continue, in accordance with applicable federal and state laws, and to avoid any further comments or other actions which can serve only to undermine our democracy,” wrote the attorneys.
The attorneys countered Mr. Trump’s false suggestions that it is somehow wrong to count ballots after Election Day — something states do in every election. “Whether it takes days, or even weeks, for that process to conclude, it must be allowed to take place in a way that is open, fair and lawful, and without any improper political interference,” they said.
Me:
Expanding his lies on favorable networks is just another means by which the president is trying to subvert our democracy. He either does not know or simply ignores state laws and regulations about how elections are to be conducted and votes are to be counted.
His spokesmen on Fox News, save for Christ Wallace, who has been under fire from Trump, cannot provide any "proof," which is only determined by a court. And I doubt whether they can even provide credible evidence. It's just more desperation.
And I say this knowing that it is still possible he will get another four years.


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Charles Austin

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4433 on: November 05, 2020, 09:03:11 PM »
I’m beginning to think we need to divide Trump supporters. One group I will call Trump cultists, in all the way, even when the Kool-Aid is being poured. Others are Trump Republicans, hitched to his wagon. Others may be called Republicans, folks who could imagine and would probably even prefer their party without Him. 
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

Keith Falk

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4434 on: November 05, 2020, 09:11:28 PM »
I’m beginning to think we need to divide Trump supporters. One group I will call Trump cultists, in all the way, even when the Kool-Aid is being poured. Others are Trump Republicans, hitched to his wagon. Others may be called Republicans, folks who could imagine and would probably even prefer their party without Him.


Have you not been paying attention the last 4.5 to 5 years?  There has been, that entire time, a segment of Republicans who "could imagine and would probably even prefer their party without [h]im".  Never-Trumpers have been around since it became clear President Trump would win the Republican nomination.  An example is George Conway, Kellyanne's husband, who founded the Lincoln Project. They are out there and they have been vocal, for those who are making any effort to listen.
Rev. Keith Falk, STS

Julio

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4435 on: November 05, 2020, 09:17:41 PM »
The News:
Please the first rule in the humble correspondent handbook is transparency ... cite your sources ... unless this is a mobbing tactic similar to the MSM censoring of recent Presidential speeches.

Where are the sources ... even if there are real sources.

Meanwhile numerous examples of fraud are being reported live on Sean Hannity NOW!

Charles Austin

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4436 on: November 05, 2020, 09:36:50 PM »
If anyone suspects that what I post is something that I made up, for example, the US attorneys who denounced what the president said this afternoon, a simple Google news search will show whence it came. Often it is the New York Times, sometimes it is AP,  sometimes it is another news service.
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Keith Falk

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4437 on: November 05, 2020, 09:38:53 PM »
The News:
Please the first rule in the humble correspondent handbook is transparency ... cite your sources ... unless this is a mobbing tactic similar to the MSM censoring of recent Presidential speeches.

Where are the sources ... even if there are real sources.

Meanwhile numerous examples of fraud are being reported live on Sean Hannity NOW!


 Sean Hannity is more of a shill for President Trump than Rachel Maddow is for Vice President Biden.
Rev. Keith Falk, STS

James J Eivan

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4438 on: November 05, 2020, 10:00:13 PM »
A few election related comments from a former election division employee ... my primary responsibility was traveling the county during early voting that polling locations resolving any issues that arose including being able to sit in any poll workers chair if needed. Probably the city fire chief was the most notable voter I processed.

First, I must admit I was always thankful when there were no close races ... much less scrutiny on our work.  Having said that, despite the fact I live in a very progressive county, I never witnessed anything that caused me to doubt that our county ran a fair and above board election. 

About the flakiest thing I witnessed was an election clerk (not judge) who voted denying she had a valid photo ID despite admitting she received a traffic citation on the way to work that day.  She presented a photo Id driver’s license to the officer ... but not claimed not to have a photo it to vote ... probably a case of perjured herself.

My state is not a swing state ... no material problems in the 2020 election with the possible exception that the are some concerns about transparency in the vote counting process this week.

Laws may vary, but here elections were not “official” until close of business the following Monday.  Normally this date is notable only to provisional voters ... it is the last day that a voter can ‘cure’ a provisional ballot. About the only reason a voter would have to cure a provisional ballot is failure to produce a valid photo ID at the polls.

Until 2019, our early and Election Day voting was automated ... no paper ballots to count except the absentee ballots ... which were normally counted during the day on Election Day ... so even in 2016 when there were a large number of absentee ballots, court totals were in before midnight.  Even now with the new electronic gizmos that produce a bar coded paper ballot, our count was completed before daybreak.

Without a close election, the suspense was over election eve when the count was completed. Yes, military and overseas ballots had special Rules ... and we’re properly counted, but their numbers were small and did not affect the results.

It is rather concerning that PA officials are apparently not allowing observers as is required by law.  If there is nothing to hide, why are they fighting court orders to allowing these observers into counting sites?

Honestly ... initially it appeared the president may have lost ... the more irregularities and downright fraud are being exposed ... and the fear on the MSM to allow the president to speak, the more apparent it is that while local poll workers worked for a fair and honest election, the tabulation process ripe with fraud. 

Meanwhile Arizona votes continue break for the president while reports of republicans election observers being denied access in Nevada grow .. if there is nothing to hide, why limit access?

What is the MSM trying to hide ... if the president is really spreading false information, let him speak and refute it later .. it’s evident that if the president is allowed to speak, the MSM can’t refute him.

Julio

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4439 on: November 05, 2020, 10:18:19 PM »
The News:
Please the first rule in the humble correspondent handbook is transparency ... cite your sources ... unless this is a mobbing tactic similar to the MSM censoring of recent Presidential speeches.

Where are the sources ... even if there are real sources.

Meanwhile numerous examples of fraud are being reported live on Sean Hannity NOW!
Sean Hannity is more of a shill for President Trump than Rachel Maddow is for Vice President Biden.

It’s not Hannity I’m listening to .. it’s the material that he presents ... material the MSM denies to the general public. Why are observers being denied access to tabulation centers?  Why are authorities fighting court orders to allow partisan observers access?

Laura Ingraham will have the Florida Governor on soon ... hardly shill to use your words.

Individual voters are being interviewed as well ... kind of shoots your shill all to heck!

Edit: Former Kansas AG is currently on being interviewed ... more shill ??  It’s doubtful !
« Last Edit: November 05, 2020, 10:22:44 PM by Julio »