Author Topic: Election 2020  (Read 224774 times)

peter_speckhard

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4095 on: October 25, 2020, 06:42:44 PM »
And I suspect countless others who refused to vote for him last time, or did so only extremely reluctantly, will be doing so again without all the reservations.

If voters have weighed the pros and cons and can now vote for the president without reservations, I'm dumbfounded. It seems to me that weighing the pros and cons would only increase the reservations. I'd say the same thing about the other candidate, by the way.

Piper's point was that we can't discount the effect of personal flaws on the culture of the nation. Many Christians, especially in Piper's circle of influence, have justified their votes by elevating policy issues over personal character as if character didn't matter.
Nobody is discounting it. When I say without reservations, I don't mean they now think there is nothing bad about Trump's character. In 2016 they either couldn't vote for him or did so only with extreme reluctance. Now they are solidly for him. And they/we are right. Trump has governed pretty well and is a better president that his challenger could hope to be.

peter_speckhard

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mj4

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4097 on: October 25, 2020, 07:05:56 PM »
https://taibbi.substack.com/p/with-the-hunter-biden-expose-suppression-136

As I implied up stream, I try to hold the other candidate to the same standard. When I do, it's not pretty. I really like Matt Taibbi, by the way. Thanks for calling attention to his article.

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4098 on: October 25, 2020, 07:40:06 PM »
60 Minutes begins soon after football ... here is the entire interview. Trump, Biden, Pence, and Harris are all to appear. 


MSM is hyping how Trump ‘ walked out’ but the fact is that a 60 minute show has less than 50 minutes of air time to fill ... four candidates to show case ... that is 12 minutes each ... the President provided CBS with 30 plus minutes of interview time that CBS will doubtlessly strive to portray him in a negative light.  No reason to provide them with more ammunition.

Julio

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4099 on: October 25, 2020, 08:57:22 PM »
Hopefully CBS will release the unedited interviews of the remaining 3 candidates.

CBS admitted that the Biden campaign corrected a statement concerning university cost. No big deal ...accept and move on ..

Ms Stahl clearly expected certain answers from Trump.. pushing back when she received answer not on her list ... no such expectations in the Biden/Harris bunch.🤕

Biden feigns law and order ... after failing to mention it during the Democrat convention.

Softballs 🥎 for the dems ... fighting for the the predetermined ‘correct’ answer from Trump.

David Garner

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4100 on: October 26, 2020, 08:39:18 AM »
Peter writes
Kamala Harris slept her way up in politics via Willie Brown's casting couch.

I comment:
The stories about here “sleeping her way up” are misleading and exaggerated.
She dated Brown in the mid-1990s, and Brown had been estranged from his wife since 1981.
Brown did appoint Harris to two political posts in 1994 while he served as Speaker of the California Assembly, but that was years before Harris won her first election in 2003. She was already working as an assistant district attorney in Alameda County when she took on the appointments, the pool from which such appointments are usually made.
Harris' relationship to Brown was never a secret, even though it may not be well known outside political circles.
Your comment, Peter, is unsubstantiated and your language - "casting couch" - is unfair.
I'm not defending all of her actions, but if we wanted to balance "credits" or "debits" in the sleeping around and marriage ledger, your guy....
Ah. Always the handy list of excuses and justifications (heaven forfend we call them defenses). It is not unsubstantiated; it is corroborated by countless news articles, and you just said they never even tried to keep it a secret. "At least she didn't keep her immorality secret; she was open about it! Also, how do you know she engaged in immorality? That's unsubstantiated!" And you say you don't approve, but at least she's not as bad as the other candidate, which is exactly what you never accept from anyone else. You call it dodging, changing the subject, etc. Sad.

This is hitting every nail on the head.  The truth is, we are held to this litany of double standards when it comes to personal conduct.  Trump isn't engaged in locker room talk, he is literally going around grabbing women in their nether regions.

Harris isn't a loose, amoral opportunist sleeping with powerful people to advance her career.  At best she's very competent and also a good sport.

It's why I give zero credence to any committed leftist or Democrat who chides me on my vote.  They don't mean it.  Same with Kavanaugh vs. Biden.  "Your candidate is an abuser of women!"  Meanwhile one guy on my FB feed is posting Handmaid's Tale pictures on his FB page today because Amy Coney Barrett is going to be confirmed.  She's abused nobody.

So it's not about the principle.  It's about the power.  And if it's about the power, well, I can do the same things they do.  Like ignoring a candidate's personal failings and voting on record and policy.  Those who would pretend they care about the personal failings always end up being hypocrites anyway (some of us remember Bill Clinton abusing a young intern..........ERRRRRRR...........having a consensual relationship with an adult woman that is none of your business Mr. Busybody!).  So we all might as well just own it.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

MaddogLutheran

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4101 on: October 26, 2020, 10:46:55 AM »
I'm also not voting for Biden, because Kamala Harris...otherwise I would while holding my nose, despite his typical class warfare campaign demagoguery. 

Just out of curiosity, which running mate might Biden have chosen that would enable you to vote for him while holding your nose? Warren? Sanders?  I assume, despite your "otherwise," that quite a few of the other options would also have prevented you from voting for him.

Apologies for not responding before now...

I decided during the 2016 Republican convention, when Trump notoriously attacked the Gold Star Khan family because they opposed his candidacy,  that he was morally and temperamentally unfit for office.  I have not wavered from judgment, even as his governance policies exceeded my expectations and might otherwise have garnered my support.  Having set that threshold for myself, which I thought was beyond the usual kind of political dishonesty, I'm going to apply it equally in similar cases.

All the Democrats on the Senate Judiciary committee who accused Brett Kavanaugh of gang rape and demanded he withdraw from the confirmation process also crossed that line.  That obviously included Kamala Harris (and Elizabeth Warren, Corey Booker, and most unfortunately Amy Klobuchar, who I might otherwise have embraced).  Even in the age of Trump, that people could casually embrace such an unsubstantiated allegation for political advantage makes me ill.  Doubly so because it's apparent his running mate has a more than likely chance of becoming president.  A Buttigieg-Klobuchar ticket might have tempted me to relent given Trump's defects, because it was less likely a morally compromised VP would succeed.  But yes, you are correct that among the top tier survivors, few were acceptable to me in the first place.  But if there was ever a year to appeal to the other side, this was it...and Biden was the best choice in the field and almost succeeded with me.  Almost.

Whether Joe Biden accusing Mitt Romney of wanting to put blacks back into chains is also disqualifying is an open question to me, but giving his choice of running mates it did not force me to consider that.  Bernie Sanders is the one candidate who would have caused me to vote for Trump, as his policies would be catastrophic to our country, even more so than the Trump presidency.  Just like 4 years ago, I will not be voting for either major party ticket.  My flicker of hope here, with Biden hiding out for the remainder of the campaign, is that a victory for him can not be interpreted as a broad governing mandate for his stated policies (why is he offering tax credits to make health care affordable when the Affordable Care Act which was passed when he was vice president already fixed that?)...but a repudiation of Trump. Satis est

I don't know about Mr. (Pr. ?) Spatz, but I would have been OK with Klobuchar or maybe even Warren given that Biden promised to choose a woman for his VP. 

Already answered your question above, but wanted to add...definitely not a pastor Mike, but I did have to lead outdoor Sunday worship a week ago, with one pastor in Florida for the first time since the pandemic and the other awaiting the results of a COVID test (negative) because he and his daughter had cold symptoms. Didn't have the advantage of staying at a Holiday Inn Express the night before, but thankfully a worship video is recorded each Thursday, so we were able to use that audio version for the sermon.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 11:31:08 AM by MaddogLutheran »
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Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4102 on: October 26, 2020, 12:23:28 PM »
Watched The Way I See It. (We had recorded it from MSNBC.) From its website.


Inspired by the New York Times #1 bestseller comes Dawn Porter's The Way I See It, an unprecedented look behind the scenes of two of the most iconic Presidents in American History, Barack Obama and Ronald Reagan, as seen through the eyes of renowned photographer Pete Souza. As Official White House Photographer, Souza was an eyewitness to the unique and tremendous responsibilities of being the most powerful person on Earth. The movie reveals how Souza transforms from a respected photojournalist to a searing commentator on the issues we face as a country and a people.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

D. Engebretson

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4103 on: October 26, 2020, 12:33:53 PM »
So with all the early voting, especially paper ballots, that cannot be tabulated until Election Day, I wonder how long it will be until we know the initial results.  I predict that regardless of the way initial results are reported there will be those who contest from either side.  Battleground states will be especially contentious area.  I wonder, too, if the rioting we witnessed in past months will not erupt again if Trump is reelected.  This has not been an easy election season; it won't get easier after Nov. 3. I may have to stop watching the morning news for several weeks. 

I am very concerned that the House, Senate and White House will all turn blue this time around.  I don't want to think what that means on all kinds of levels.   
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4104 on: October 26, 2020, 12:38:18 PM »
So with all the early voting, especially paper ballots, that cannot be tabulated until Election Day, I wonder how long it will be until we know the initial results.  I predict that regardless of the way initial results are reported there will be those who contest from either side.  Battleground states will be especially contentious area.  I wonder, too, if the rioting we witnessed in past months will not erupt again if Trump is reelected.  This has not been an easy election season; it won't get easier after Nov. 3. I may have to stop watching the morning news for several weeks. 

I am very concerned that the House, Senate and White House will all turn blue this time around.  I don't want to think what that means on all kinds of levels.


Do you think it would be better if the House, Senate, and White House were all red? I don't. There needs to be healthy opposition with differing opinions to help make the best decisions possible.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 12:39:52 PM by Brian Stoffregen »
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Charles Austin

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4105 on: October 26, 2020, 12:43:53 PM »
Until the “reds” get some guts, recover some integrity and break whatever blackmail hold He and McConnell has on them, I don’t care if things are all “blue.”
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Say what you will about polls, but all current polls show that a significant majority of Americans agree with the things I have been saying in this modest form.

Randy Bosch

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4106 on: October 26, 2020, 12:48:49 PM »
So with all the early voting, especially paper ballots, that cannot be tabulated until Election Day, I wonder how long it will be until we know the initial results.  I predict that regardless of the way initial results are reported there will be those who contest from either side.  Battleground states will be especially contentious area.  I wonder, too, if the rioting we witnessed in past months will not erupt again if Trump is reelected.  This has not been an easy election season; it won't get easier after Nov. 3. I may have to stop watching the morning news for several weeks. 

I am very concerned that the House, Senate and White House will all turn blue this time around.  I don't want to think what that means on all kinds of levels.

Do you think it would be better if the House, Senate, and White House were all red? I don't. There needs to be healthy opposition with differing opinions to help make the best decisions possible.

I think that 'healthy opposition with differing opinions' needs to also occur within each political party.  We keep seeing the lock-step stances (in both parties) that punish even discussion of positions other than those demanded by "leadership".
Remember, some years ago, the Speaker of the House stated that 'Bipartisanship is when you vote my way.'  Guess which Speaker...

D. Engebretson

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4107 on: October 26, 2020, 12:52:13 PM »
So with all the early voting, especially paper ballots, that cannot be tabulated until Election Day, I wonder how long it will be until we know the initial results.  I predict that regardless of the way initial results are reported there will be those who contest from either side.  Battleground states will be especially contentious area.  I wonder, too, if the rioting we witnessed in past months will not erupt again if Trump is reelected.  This has not been an easy election season; it won't get easier after Nov. 3. I may have to stop watching the morning news for several weeks. 

I am very concerned that the House, Senate and White House will all turn blue this time around.  I don't want to think what that means on all kinds of levels.


Do you think it would be better if the House, Senate, and White House were all red? I don't. There needs to be healthy opposition with differing opinions to help make the best decisions possible.

I would be more comfortable if at least part of it was red.
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

Norman Teigen

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4108 on: October 26, 2020, 12:56:17 PM »
The New York Times made a good argument to vote Trump out:  He is unworthy of the office he holds.  1.  His unapologetic corruptions. 2. His demagogy. 3. His fake populism  4.  His incompetent statesmanship. 5.  His super-spreader agenda.

"He's off the rails...And the honest people in the room know that he is crazy."  Anthony Scaramucci, former White House Communications Director
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peter_speckhard

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4109 on: October 26, 2020, 01:03:17 PM »
The New York Times made a good argument to vote Trump out:  He is unworthy of the office he holds.  1.  His unapologetic corruptions. 2. His demagogy. 3. His fake populism  4.  His incompetent statesmanship. 5.  His super-spreader agenda.

"He's off the rails...And the honest people in the room know that he is crazy."  Anthony Scaramucci, former White House Communications Director
What makes you think his populism is fake? How do you account for the drastically better results his incompetent statesmanship got as compared to his predecessor's competent statesmanship? Why would a newspaper that endorsed a Clinton three times suddenly develop a conscience about unapologetic corruptions?