Author Topic: Election 2020  (Read 546388 times)

peter_speckhard

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #3900 on: October 21, 2020, 12:06:03 AM »
A big thing Working against national unity, Peter, is that you...Ē
Nuff said.

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #3901 on: October 21, 2020, 01:07:29 AM »
A a sad commentary of Ďrhetoric that causes divisionsí ... Ďmassive and dangerous liesí ... and above all Ďreckless and irresponsible wordsí ...

I think I said it many many months ago, Peter.It could be that this year, the most important thing in the election is - yes, it is - to defeat Donald J. Trump.It could be that this year, whatever the weaknesses of the other candidate (and I don't think there are as many as some allege), the other candidate would be better than Donald J. Trump.Trump keeps up the rhetoric that causes division. Trump continues the massive and dangerous lies.Trump continues to downplay the corona virus.Trump continues to arrange things so that his companies profit from his presidency.Trump continues his assault on constitutional democracy. Trump continues reckless and irresponsible words about our nation, our friends and our enemies abroad. Trump continues stupidities like pulling out of the World Health Organization. Yes - this year, 2020 - perhaps the key issue is defeating Donald J. Trump.One can hope that four years from now there can be a reasoned and civil discourse on policies, programs, our relations within our land and abroad, health care, the environment, and the undue influence of Big Money in politics. But this year, none of those things are The Issue. Thank

For reasoned and civil discourse to prevail, perhaps even Rev. Butler has now been convinced by Rev. Austinís incessant negativity to vote for the president ... or is it that polls are beginning to show that Minnesota may go republican for the first time in years!

Perhaps the glee reported here in 2016 will be repeated ...

Or will it be the utter anguish here, here, or here?
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 01:28:17 AM by Julio »

Charles Austin

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #3902 on: October 21, 2020, 04:59:51 AM »
From Bidenís Acceptance speech:
ďHere and now, I give you my word, if you entrust me with the presidency, I will draw on the best of us, not the worst, Iíll be an ally of the light, not our darkness. And make no mistake, united we can and will overcome this season of darkness in America. I donít pledge allegiance to red states of America or blue states of America ó I pledge allegiance to the United States of America. Iím gonna fight as hard for those who supported me as those who did not support me. We have a chance to put [the] anger and division [that] have overtaken this country behind us. And we can.Ē

From his speech at Gettysburg:
ďAs president Ö I will send a clear, unequivocal message to the entire nation. There is no place for hate in America. It will be given no license. It will be given no oxygen.Ē He also again denounced the ďviolence and looting and burningĒ that was set off in several American cities over the summer amid racial justice protests after the deaths and police shootings of George Floyd in Minneapolis, Breonna Taylor in Louisville, Jacob Blake in Kenosha, Wisconsin, and others.

And how does the man seeking re-election speak of his opponents? Is the idea of unity or reconciliation anywhere in his words? Are his words ever really about the people of our country or are the about him? Biden speaks harshly about the President, but not about all Republicans. And the president...? He got elected convincing people they were victims and abused. He thrives on disunity and perceived threats. He turns viciously on his allies if they utter the slightest criticism of him.
People in this modest forum constantly claim that they, their faith, their worldview are under assault. It is an unhealthy ďargument from victimization.Ē
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 05:02:53 AM by Charles Austin »
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Norman Teigen

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #3903 on: October 21, 2020, 07:32:24 AM »
Wise words, Pastor Austin. I am doing Lincoln study in this time of Covid-19, focusing on the years 1854-1860.    In his Second Inaugural Address, March 4, 1865,  the President  said:  "With malice toward none;  with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work, we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds....." 

I sincerely hope that Lincoln's words would be taken to heart by all in 2020. Here is a start in that direction. a link to a story about figuring out conspiracy theories.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/21/opinion/q-anon-conspiracy.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 08:01:59 AM by Norman Teigen »
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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #3904 on: October 21, 2020, 08:49:39 AM »
Morning news reports reveal that both DOJ and FBI officials confirm the validity of the Hunter Biden laptop story currently being suppressed by MSM ... even bringing the favorite topic of some (sex) into the story.

Further validating the story is that the Biden campaign is not denying the facts ... simply defying the DOJ and FBI by claiming that the story is Russian disinformation.

It will be interesting to see how the ďdebateĒ on Thursday will attempt to avoid this topic.😿😾

peter_speckhard

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #3905 on: October 21, 2020, 08:54:38 AM »
Again, here are Trump's words from election night 2016. Obviously some of the specific promises remain unfulfilled, either due to contrary branches of government having their say, movements dedicated to being "the resistance," and of course Covid-19 and the riots. But the spirit of the thing is very conciliatory and very welcoming. Anyone interested in unity could find something to join here. If they didn't join, it is because they only want unity on their terms, which is not a desire for unity with citizens of different views but for victory over an enemy.

Thank you. Thank you very much, everyone. Iíve just received a call from Secretary Clinton. She congratulated us ó itís about us ó on our victory, and I congratulated her and her family on a very, very hard-fought campaign. I mean, she ó she fought very hard. Hillary has worked very long and very hard over a long period of time, and we owe her a major debt of gratitude for her service to our country. I mean that very sincerely.

Now itís time for America to bind the wounds of division; have to get together. To all Republicans and Democrats and independents across this nation, I say it is time for us to come together as one united people. Itís time. I pledge to every citizen of our land that I will be president for all Americans, and this is so important to me. For those who have chosen not to support me in the past, of which there were a few people. . . Iím reaching out to you for your guidance and your help so that we can work together and unify our great country.

As Iíve said from the beginning, ours was not a campaign, but rather an incredible and great movement made up of millions of hard-working men and women who love their country and want a better, brighter future for themselves and for their families.

Itís a movement comprised of Americans from all races, religions, backgrounds and beliefs who want and expect our government to serve the people, and serve the people it will. Working together, we will begin the urgent task of rebuilding our nation and renewing the American dream. Iíve spent my entire life and business looking at the untapped potential in projects and in people all over the world. That is now what I want to do for our country.

Tremendous potential. Iíve gotten to know our country so well ó tremendous potential. Itís going to be a beautiful thing. Every single American will have the opportunity to realize his or her fullest potential. The forgotten men and women of our country will be forgotten no longer. We are going to fix our inner cities and rebuild our highways, bridges, tunnels, airports, schools, hospitals. Weíre going to rebuild our infrastructure, which will become, by the way, second to none. And we will put millions of our people to work as we rebuild it.

We will also finally take care of our great veterans. Theyíve been so loyal, and Iíve gotten to know so many over this 18-month journey. The time Iíve spent with them during this campaign has been among my greatest honors. Our veterans are incredible people. We will embark upon a project of national growth and renewal. I will harness the creative talents of our people and we will call upon the best and brightest to leverage their tremendous talent for the benefit of all. Itís going to happen.

We have a great economic plan. We will double our growth and have the strongest economy anywhere in the world. At the same time, we will get along with all other nations willing to get along with us. We will be.


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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #3907 on: October 21, 2020, 09:12:44 AM »
Again, here are Trump's words from election night 2016. Obviously some of the specific promises remain unfulfilled, either due to contrary branches of government having their say, movements dedicated to being "the resistance," and of course Covid-19 and the riots. But the spirit of the thing is very conciliatory and very welcoming. Anyone interested in unity could find something to join here. If they didn't join, it is because they only want unity on their terms, which is not a desire for unity with citizens of different views but for victory over an enemy.

Thank you. Thank you very much, everyone. Iíve just received a call from Secretary Clinton. She congratulated us ó itís about us ó on our victory, and I congratulated her and her family on a very, very hard-fought campaign. I mean, she ó she fought very hard. Hillary has worked very long and very hard over a long period of time, and we owe her a major debt of gratitude for her service to our country. I mean that very sincerely.

Now itís time for America to bind the wounds of division; have to get together. To all Republicans and Democrats and independents across this nation, I say it is time for us to come together as one united people. Itís time. I pledge to every citizen of our land that I will be president for all Americans, and this is so important to me. For those who have chosen not to support me in the past, of which there were a few people. . . Iím reaching out to you for your guidance and your help so that we can work together and unify our great country.

As Iíve said from the beginning, ours was not a campaign, but rather an incredible and great movement made up of millions of hard-working men and women who love their country and want a better, brighter future for themselves and for their families.

Itís a movement comprised of Americans from all races, religions, backgrounds and beliefs who want and expect our government to serve the people, and serve the people it will. Working together, we will begin the urgent task of rebuilding our nation and renewing the American dream. Iíve spent my entire life and business looking at the untapped potential in projects and in people all over the world. That is now what I want to do for our country.

Tremendous potential. Iíve gotten to know our country so well ó tremendous potential. Itís going to be a beautiful thing. Every single American will have the opportunity to realize his or her fullest potential. The forgotten men and women of our country will be forgotten no longer. We are going to fix our inner cities and rebuild our highways, bridges, tunnels, airports, schools, hospitals. Weíre going to rebuild our infrastructure, which will become, by the way, second to none. And we will put millions of our people to work as we rebuild it.

We will also finally take care of our great veterans. Theyíve been so loyal, and Iíve gotten to know so many over this 18-month journey. The time Iíve spent with them during this campaign has been among my greatest honors. Our veterans are incredible people. We will embark upon a project of national growth and renewal. I will harness the creative talents of our people and we will call upon the best and brightest to leverage their tremendous talent for the benefit of all. Itís going to happen.

We have a great economic plan. We will double our growth and have the strongest economy anywhere in the world. At the same time, we will get along with all other nations willing to get along with us. We will be.


I remember this speech.  It gave me hope especially his kind words to Secretary Clinton.  This is the president that I hoped we had elected.

It is not the president that we got.  I'm sorry, Pr. Speckhard.  Trump's pledges to "bind the wounds of division" and "be president for all Americans" were not fulfilled, and this cannot be blamed on anyone but Trump.  Gaslighting is mentioned here; anyone who argues that these pledges were fulfilled by a president who routinely attacks people and trolls the media is doing just that. Gaslighting.

I can go along with arguments that Trump's policies have been good for the conservative cause.  I cannot agree that this speech of Trump's was honored in any way by his presidency.

Coach-Rev

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #3908 on: October 21, 2020, 09:13:46 AM »
A big thing Working against national unity, Peter, is that you and people like Pastor Fienen just love pretending that you are hated and victimized.

This about says it all, right here.  You want to blame "a big thing working against national unity" as something other than you and your ilk's absolute hatred of the current president.  It's truly sad and pathetic that you not only didn't see Pr. Speckhard's point, but that you then went on to shift blame back on him.

I've got some really disappointing news for ya, Chuck:  This country was divided by the previous administration FAR WORSE than it has been under the current one.  The difference being that Trump took your liberal game and at least initially played it better than you, which is in part how he won in 16.

From Bidenís Acceptance speech:
ďHere and now, I give you my word, if you entrust me with the presidency, I will draw on the best of us, not the worst, Iíll be an ally of the light, not our darkness. And make no mistake, united we can and will overcome this season of darkness in America. I donít pledge allegiance to red states of America or blue states of America ó I pledge allegiance to the United States of America. Iím gonna fight as hard for those who supported me as those who did not support me. We have a chance to put [the] anger and division [that] have overtaken this country behind us. And we can.Ē

From his speech at Gettysburg:
ďAs president Ö I will send a clear, unequivocal message to the entire nation. There is no place for hate in America. It will be given no license. It will be given no oxygen.Ē He also again denounced the ďviolence and looting and burningĒ that was set off in several American cities over the summer amid racial justice protests after the deaths and police shootings of George Floyd in Minneapolis, Breonna Taylor in Louisville, Jacob Blake in Kenosha, Wisconsin, and others.


And then spends all his time campaigning and complaining about Trump, and his running mate complains about Trump supporters, all the while his supporters talk about purging and prosecuting the "ACB's" from society.  Yeah, real unity there, Charles.  Just once I wish you would actually open your eyes to the reality of the world around you, and not your colored reality in your own mind.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 09:18:37 AM by Coach-Rev »
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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #3909 on: October 21, 2020, 09:28:41 AM »
I remember this speech.  It gave me hope especially his kind words to Secretary Clinton.  This is the president that I hoped we had elected.

It is not the president that we got.  I'm sorry, Pr. Speckhard.  Trump's pledges to "bind the wounds of division" and "be president for all Americans" were not fulfilled, and this cannot be blamed on anyone but Trump.  Gaslighting is mentioned here; anyone who argues that these pledges were fulfilled by a president who routinely attacks people and trolls the media is doing just that. Gaslighting.

I can go along with arguments that Trump's policies have been good for the conservative cause.  I cannot agree that this speech of Trump's was honored in any way by his presidency.
While Mr Gehlhausen has a point  ... it is tragic that the last four years did not reflect the election night speech, but to condemn the president without similarly condemning opposition politicians and the incessant slander of the MSM is simply partisan and disingenuous.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #3910 on: October 21, 2020, 09:35:43 AM »
Again, here are Trump's words from election night 2016. Obviously some of the specific promises remain unfulfilled, either due to contrary branches of government having their say, movements dedicated to being "the resistance," and of course Covid-19 and the riots. But the spirit of the thing is very conciliatory and very welcoming. Anyone interested in unity could find something to join here. If they didn't join, it is because they only want unity on their terms, which is not a desire for unity with citizens of different views but for victory over an enemy.

Thank you. Thank you very much, everyone. Iíve just received a call from Secretary Clinton. She congratulated us ó itís about us ó on our victory, and I congratulated her and her family on a very, very hard-fought campaign. I mean, she ó she fought very hard. Hillary has worked very long and very hard over a long period of time, and we owe her a major debt of gratitude for her service to our country. I mean that very sincerely.

Now itís time for America to bind the wounds of division; have to get together. To all Republicans and Democrats and independents across this nation, I say it is time for us to come together as one united people. Itís time. I pledge to every citizen of our land that I will be president for all Americans, and this is so important to me. For those who have chosen not to support me in the past, of which there were a few people. . . Iím reaching out to you for your guidance and your help so that we can work together and unify our great country.

As Iíve said from the beginning, ours was not a campaign, but rather an incredible and great movement made up of millions of hard-working men and women who love their country and want a better, brighter future for themselves and for their families.

Itís a movement comprised of Americans from all races, religions, backgrounds and beliefs who want and expect our government to serve the people, and serve the people it will. Working together, we will begin the urgent task of rebuilding our nation and renewing the American dream. Iíve spent my entire life and business looking at the untapped potential in projects and in people all over the world. That is now what I want to do for our country.

Tremendous potential. Iíve gotten to know our country so well ó tremendous potential. Itís going to be a beautiful thing. Every single American will have the opportunity to realize his or her fullest potential. The forgotten men and women of our country will be forgotten no longer. We are going to fix our inner cities and rebuild our highways, bridges, tunnels, airports, schools, hospitals. Weíre going to rebuild our infrastructure, which will become, by the way, second to none. And we will put millions of our people to work as we rebuild it.

We will also finally take care of our great veterans. Theyíve been so loyal, and Iíve gotten to know so many over this 18-month journey. The time Iíve spent with them during this campaign has been among my greatest honors. Our veterans are incredible people. We will embark upon a project of national growth and renewal. I will harness the creative talents of our people and we will call upon the best and brightest to leverage their tremendous talent for the benefit of all. Itís going to happen.

We have a great economic plan. We will double our growth and have the strongest economy anywhere in the world. At the same time, we will get along with all other nations willing to get along with us. We will be.


I remember this speech.  It gave me hope especially his kind words to Secretary Clinton.  This is the president that I hoped we had elected.

It is not the president that we got.  I'm sorry, Pr. Speckhard.  Trump's pledges to "bind the wounds of division" and "be president for all Americans" were not fulfilled, and this cannot be blamed on anyone but Trump.  Gaslighting is mentioned here; anyone who argues that these pledges were fulfilled by a president who routinely attacks people and trolls the media is doing just that. Gaslighting.

I can go along with arguments that Trump's policies have been good for the conservative cause.  I cannot agree that this speech of Trump's was honored in any way by his presidency.
I disagree. I think the opposition responded by doubling down on opposition. I recently watched parts of the election night coverage from 2016 from various networks. People were panicked. What was Trump going to do to the Muslims, what was he going to do to Mexicans, what wars was he going to start, will the stock market ever recover, etc. etc. Well, four years later, Mexicans and other Hispanics support him in greater numbers now than then. Why? Because they found much of the scare-mongering to have been just that. Muslims support him in high numbers. Why, if he is so Islamaphobic? Black people are still overwhelmingly Democrats, but Trump gets more support from them in most polling than previous Republican candidates and presidents, and his numbers have gone up, not down in the four years he has been president. Why, if he is such a White Supremacist? He hasn't started any wars at all, and he has even reduced our participation in the myriad wars were already in. The stock market is doing just fine.

In short, I think his words on election night were sincere. It was the people he was trying to win over who wanted none of it. The Democrats made a choice not to be the loyal opposition but the "antifascist resistance" at all costs. I think he governs a lot better than he campaigns, which is why his first speech after becoming president-elect was so much better than most of his campaign speeches. The thing that sets him apart from other Republicans is his willingness to fight rather than cave when he meets resistance. But in that case the resistance is every bit as much to blame for the division as Trump. That's why I almost couldn't bring myself to vote for him last time but feel just fine voting for him this time. That's why at least five or six people of my personal acquaintance who absolutely couldn't vote for him last time will gladly vote for him this time. His four years in office speak for him, not against him.

Have Pelosi and Schumer modelled a unifying spirit? No, not in the least. It takes two to be divided. 

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #3911 on: October 21, 2020, 09:41:56 AM »
Mr.Gehlhausen writes:
I remember this speech.  It gave me hope especially his kind words to Secretary Clinton.  This is the president that I hoped we had elected.
It is not the president that we got.  I'm sorry, Pr. Speckhard.  Trump's pledges to "bind the wounds of division" and "be president for all Americans" were not fulfilled, and this cannot be blamed on anyone but Trump.  Gaslighting is mentioned here; anyone who argues that these pledges were fulfilled by a president who routinely attacks people and trolls the media is doing just that. Gaslighting.
I comment:
And those words from that night do not parallel anything that he has spoken in the last four years.

Peter writes:
It takes two to be divided.
I comment:
No, it does not. Not if one party is driven away, Subjected to egregious lies. And undercut almost every time a minimal amount of cooperation is indeed sought.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Parishes in Iowa, Nw York and New Jersey. LCA and LWF staff. Former journalist. Now retired, living in Minneapolis.

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #3912 on: October 21, 2020, 09:50:14 AM »
Morning news reports reveal that both DOJ and FBI officials confirm the validity of the Hunter Biden laptop story currently being suppressed by MSM ... even bringing the favorite topic of some (sex) into the story.

Further validating the story is that the Biden campaign is not denying the facts ... simply defying the DOJ and FBI by claiming that the story is Russian disinformation.

It will be interesting to see how the ďdebateĒ on Thursday will attempt to avoid this topic.😿😾


What up with this?

1.   Has the DOJ & FBI been negligent up until now in not investigating this alleged crime?

2.   Has the DOJ & FBI been surppressing the results of its investigation into this alleged crime? Does the president know they are doing this?

3.   Is there actually no story here?   ;D

There may be many things that's wrong with Biden, but his son's alleged misconduct does not seem to be one of them.

Peace, JOHN
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 09:53:18 AM by John_Hannah »
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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #3913 on: October 21, 2020, 09:57:45 AM »
Mr.Gehlhausen writes:
I remember this speech.  It gave me hope especially his kind words to Secretary Clinton.  This is the president that I hoped we had elected.
It is not the president that we got.  I'm sorry, Pr. Speckhard.  Trump's pledges to "bind the wounds of division" and "be president for all Americans" were not fulfilled, and this cannot be blamed on anyone but Trump.  Gaslighting is mentioned here; anyone who argues that these pledges were fulfilled by a president who routinely attacks people and trolls the media is doing just that. Gaslighting.
I comment:
And those words from that night do not parallel anything that he has spoken in the last four years.

Peter writes:
It takes two to be divided.
I comment:
No, it does not. Not if one party is driven away, Subjected to egregious lies. And undercut almost every time a minimal amount of cooperation is indeed sought.
Who has been driven away? Not Muslims. Not Mexicans. Not African-Americans. Not Jews. They're all looking at greater cooperation and support, albeit tentatively, after four years of seeing Trump in action as opposed to speculation about what he might do leading up to his election. What has Trump done as president to drive you away from him apart from normal policy disagreements on things like tax rates or foreign policy? Nancy Pelosi publicly ripped up his state of the union speech on tv for all to see. Is that what people for unity do. Biden called Romney a racist. Does that sound like the sort of man who bring people together?

Yes, the sort of people who thought Mitt Romney was a racist think Trump is really really racist. But the racism exists in their a priori assumption about conservatism, not in any action Trump has taken as president. I don't think you're really taking into account how divisive accusations of hate/racism/phobia really are. You think you can call people people hate-mongers, but if you defeat them in an election you can be a unifying force. You can't. You think they are hate-mongers, and they know that.     

Mike Gehlhausen

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #3914 on: October 21, 2020, 09:59:35 AM »
The thing that sets him apart from other Republicans is his willingness to fight rather than cave when he meets resistance. But in that case the resistance is every bit as much to blame for the division as Trump.

This  This is where we disagree. This is what belies Trump's election-night speech.

Trump's intention to fight rather than compromise is what attracts many of his supporters.  That is understood.  It does not honor an intention to  "bind the wounds of division" and "be president for all Americans" though.

Doing so requires going the extra mile.  It takes meeting hostility with peace and not more hostility.  ďA gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.Ē  It takes respecting those who oppose you rather than mocking them with silly nicknames.  It takes calmly refuting media misrepresentations as I'll argue that Kayleigh McEnany does well rather than attacking the media.

I'll say once again that I think Trump's policies have been good on balance.  However, since the point brought up here is one of fostering unity, I have to disagree that Trump has done this in any way.  As you point out in what I quote, that approach completely contradicts how Trump works.