Author Topic: Election 2020  (Read 546399 times)

peter_speckhard

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #3645 on: October 07, 2020, 11:03:29 PM »


Shoot, in last week's debate he couldn't unequivocally condemn white nationalism, e.g., the Proud Boys.


WALLACE: “Are you willing tonight to condemn white supremacists and militia groups…”

TRUMP: “Sure…”

WALLACE: “And to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities as we saw in Kenosha, and as we’ve seen in Portland”

TRUMP: “Sure, I’m prepared to do it, but I would say almost everything I see is from the left-wing not from the right-wing. I’m willing to do anything, I want to see peace…”

WALLACE: “Then do it, sir.”

BIDEN: “Do it, say it.”

TRUMP: “What do you want to call them? Give me a name.”

WALLACE: “White supremacists and right-wing militias”

BIDEN: “Proud Boys”

Trump: “Proud Boys, stand back and stand by. But I’ll tell you what, somebody’s got to do something about Antifa and the left.”


The problem is that the Proud Boys are not a White Nationalist group. They're one of those patriotic militia groups with an Afro-Cuban leader. Race has nothing to do with their group's purpose, problematic as that purpose may be. Trump didn't know anything about them-- Biden interjected that name-- so Trump told them to stand down and then moved to a more reality-based topic, which is violence from left wing groups. But I'm sure you'll be repeating your bogus take for the rest of your life.

Mbecker

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #3646 on: October 07, 2020, 11:12:28 PM »
From Trump's speech 8/14/17

And as I have said many times before, no matter the color of our skin, we all live under the same laws; we all salute the same great flag; and we are all made by the same almighty God. We must love each other, show affection for each other, and unite together in condemnation of hatred, bigotry, and violence. We must discover the bonds of love and loyalty that bring us together as Americans. Racism is evil, and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans. We are a nation founded on the truth that all of us are created equal. We are equal in the eyes of our creator, we are equal under the law, and we are equal under our constitution. Those who spread violence in the name of bigotry strike at the very core of America.

Peter,
The president read these prepared remarks two days after Heather Heyer was murdered. Three days after the march.

According to multiple sources, he read this prepared statement because several of his advisers had convinced him that he needed to offer a more conciliatory statement toward those peacefully protesting against the Neo-Nazis than he had done to that point. The statement he read was an attempt to recover from a terrible moral and political failure that he had committed over the previous three days.

But his conciliatory position didn't last long. Just one day.

The very next day, on Aug 15, he said, "I've condemned neo-Nazis. I've condemned many groups. But not all of these people were neo-Nazis, believe me. You had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists.... You had some very fine people on both sides.... I think there is blame on both sides." On. Both. Sides.

So he went back to his position of moral equivalency, which is where he has remained.

M. Becker

James J Eivan

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #3647 on: October 07, 2020, 11:17:13 PM »

So he went back to his position of moral equivalency, which is where he has remained.

M. Becker
Amazingly you continue to ignore the clear and concise text from last weeks debate that Rev Speckhard quoted here

I’m eternally gratefully that my university education was completed before the current crop of revisionist thinkers invaded academia.

Mbecker

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #3648 on: October 07, 2020, 11:23:43 PM »


Shoot, in last week's debate he couldn't unequivocally condemn white nationalism, e.g., the Proud Boys.


WALLACE: “Are you willing tonight to condemn white supremacists and militia groups…”

TRUMP: “Sure…”

WALLACE: “And to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities as we saw in Kenosha, and as we’ve seen in Portland”

TRUMP: “Sure, I’m prepared to do it, but I would say almost everything I see is from the left-wing not from the right-wing. I’m willing to do anything, I want to see peace…”

WALLACE: “Then do it, sir.”

BIDEN: “Do it, say it.”

TRUMP: “What do you want to call them? Give me a name.”

WALLACE: “White supremacists and right-wing militias”

BIDEN: “Proud Boys”

Trump: “Proud Boys, stand back and stand by. But I’ll tell you what, somebody’s got to do something about Antifa and the left.”


The problem is that the Proud Boys are not a White Nationalist group. They're one of those patriotic militia groups with an Afro-Cuban leader. Race has nothing to do with their group's purpose, problematic as that purpose may be. Trump didn't know anything about them-- Biden interjected that name-- so Trump told them to stand down and then moved to a more reality-based topic, which is violence from left wing groups. But I'm sure you'll be repeating your bogus take for the rest of your life.

He said he was "prepared" to condemn white supremacists and militia groups. He didn't actually do that or say anything close to what he was invited to do. Nothing of the sort. He immediately tried to shift blame to "the left."

As to the Proud Boys, you are simply mistaken: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/proud-boys
The quotes from their leaders belie the nature of the group. You can imagine what "stand back and stand by" meant to them! Lord, have mercy....

Peter,
You are in my prayers. God's wisdom and shalom be with you.

M. Becker

peter_speckhard

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #3649 on: October 07, 2020, 11:24:15 PM »
From Trump's speech 8/14/17

And as I have said many times before, no matter the color of our skin, we all live under the same laws; we all salute the same great flag; and we are all made by the same almighty God. We must love each other, show affection for each other, and unite together in condemnation of hatred, bigotry, and violence. We must discover the bonds of love and loyalty that bring us together as Americans. Racism is evil, and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans. We are a nation founded on the truth that all of us are created equal. We are equal in the eyes of our creator, we are equal under the law, and we are equal under our constitution. Those who spread violence in the name of bigotry strike at the very core of America.

Peter,
The president read these prepared remarks two days after Heather Heyer was murdered. Three days after the march.

According to multiple sources, he read this prepared statement because several of his advisers had convinced him that he needed to offer a more conciliatory statement toward those peacefully protesting against the Neo-Nazis than he had done to that point. The statement he read was an attempt to recover from a terrible moral and political failure that he had committed over the previous three days.

But his conciliatory position didn't last long. Just one day.

The very next day, on Aug 15, he said, "I've condemned neo-Nazis. I've condemned many groups. But not all of these people were neo-Nazis, believe me. You had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists.... You had some very fine people on both sides.... I think there is blame on both sides." On. Both. Sides.

So he went back to his position of moral equivalency, which is where he has remained.

M. Becker
He condemned the racists but said not everybody there was a racist, and you take that as a failure to condemn racism. Sad, and sadly typical.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #3650 on: October 07, 2020, 11:36:33 PM »
I think Herschel Walker’s endorsement video at the convention speaks to this issue quite well.

 Trump is called a racist because he utterly rejects the identity politics that dominate the left, where one is either a racist or a leftist anti-racist. Biden is not a racist even though he thinks blackness is a political affiliation. That’s because his (offensive and ridiculous) views are in keeping with identity politics. Trump’s views are not, so he must be a racist.


Next Gen Lutheran

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #3651 on: October 07, 2020, 11:39:41 PM »
I also did not vote for either candidate in the 2016 election, because I couldn't stomach either. However, I've found that if I simply ignore all of the buffoonery and antics, I'm pleased with most of what Trump has done. I will be voting for Trump in this election, even if my stomach doesn't enjoy it.
I don't know what the average age of this forum is, but I suspect I'm well below it. I don't know what the average active years in the church is in this forum, but I suspect I'm well below it. I don't know what the average IQ of this forum is, but I, well, you get it.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #3652 on: October 08, 2020, 12:03:42 AM »


Shoot, in last week's debate he couldn't unequivocally condemn white nationalism, e.g., the Proud Boys.


WALLACE: “Are you willing tonight to condemn white supremacists and militia groups…”

TRUMP: “Sure…”

WALLACE: “And to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities as we saw in Kenosha, and as we’ve seen in Portland”

TRUMP: “Sure, I’m prepared to do it, but I would say almost everything I see is from the left-wing not from the right-wing. I’m willing to do anything, I want to see peace…”

WALLACE: “Then do it, sir.”

BIDEN: “Do it, say it.”

TRUMP: “What do you want to call them? Give me a name.”

WALLACE: “White supremacists and right-wing militias”

BIDEN: “Proud Boys”

Trump: “Proud Boys, stand back and stand by. But I’ll tell you what, somebody’s got to do something about Antifa and the left.”


The problem is that the Proud Boys are not a White Nationalist group. They're one of those patriotic militia groups with an Afro-Cuban leader. Race has nothing to do with their group's purpose, problematic as that purpose may be. Trump didn't know anything about them-- Biden interjected that name-- so Trump told them to stand down and then moved to a more reality-based topic, which is violence from left wing groups. But I'm sure you'll be repeating your bogus take for the rest of your life.

He said he was "prepared" to condemn white supremacists and militia groups. He didn't actually do that or say anything close to what he was invited to do. Nothing of the sort. He immediately tried to shift blame to "the left."

As to the Proud Boys, you are simply mistaken: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/proud-boys
The quotes from their leaders belie the nature of the group. You can imagine what "stand back and stand by" meant to them! Lord, have mercy....

Peter,
You are in my prayers. God's wisdom and shalom be with you.

M. Becker

By that logic, the DNC is anti-Semitic because even though they disavow anti-semitisn, they are often in the company of overt anti-Semites and support the same things virulent anti-Semites support. Dem politicians appear with Al Sharpton or someone with ties to Hamas.

Trump didn’t know who the Proud Boys were, but told them to stop doing whatever they were doing To contribute to the leftist violence sweeping the cities. Nothing wrong with that.

James J Eivan

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #3653 on: October 08, 2020, 01:03:32 AM »
I also did not vote for either candidate in the 2016 election, because I couldn't stomach either. However, I've found that if I simply ignore all of the buffoonery and antics, I'm pleased with most of what Trump has done. I will be voting for Trump in this election, even if my stomach doesn't enjoy it.
Welcome  ... it appears that you like most forum participants see President Trump as the lesser of the evils on the ballot.

Ignoring the buffoonery and antics of the political realm will prepare you well for the theological, political, and personal buffoonery of the forum world as well.

Mbecker

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #3654 on: October 08, 2020, 01:35:34 AM »

So he went back to his position of moral equivalency, which is where he has remained.

M. Becker
Amazingly you continue to ignore the clear and concise text from last weeks debate that Rev Speckhard quoted here

I’m eternally gratefully that my university education was completed before the current crop of revisionist thinkers invaded academia.

Sir,
I don't know where you went to university, but here at this university, Peter's alma mater, most students and all faculty know that there is a significant difference between someone who says, "I am prepared" to do something, and someone who actually does what they say they are prepared to do, just as there is a difference between someone who says, "I am willing" to do something, and someone who actually does what they say they are "willing" to do. In the debate, the president said that he was "prepared" and "willing" to do something, but then he actually failed to do it.

M. Becker
« Last Edit: October 08, 2020, 01:37:36 AM by Mbecker »

Charles Austin

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #3655 on: October 08, 2020, 05:06:22 AM »
Furthermore, since racists and other extremists keep declaring their support for the president, Mr. Trump needs to clearly and frequently say to them: “Shut up. Go away. You are hateful and wrong. I do not want your support.”
And he needs to say to the American people, some of whom might be leaning towards aspects of the racist, white-supremacy agenda, “do not go there; these are not good people.”
Retired ELCA Pastor. Parishes in Iowa, Nw York and New Jersey. LCA and LWF staff. Former journalist. Now retired, living in Minneapolis.

Mike Gehlhausen

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #3656 on: October 08, 2020, 07:53:47 AM »
I've said before that I will not vote for either Trump or Biden in this election.  I had planned to leave the presidential line blank.

But I've decided!  I am writing in the fly!

peter_speckhard

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #3657 on: October 08, 2020, 08:14:20 AM »
Furthermore, since racists and other extremists keep declaring their support for the president, Mr. Trump needs to clearly and frequently say to them: “Shut up. Go away. You are hateful and wrong. I do not want your support.”
And he needs to say to the American people, some of whom might be leaning towards aspects of the racist, white-supremacy agenda, “do not go there; these are not good people.”
Virtually all of the violent extremism on display in the last year has been antifa and other leftist groups. These are the people rioting, looting, burning buildings, and engaging in basic street-level thuggery like overturning tables in restaurants while berating the patrons. They are the ones who need to know that they will not have a sympathetic ear in government no matter what. But sadly, they have a sympathetic audience in Biden/Harris, and they know that. What has Biden or Harris done to denounce antifa and their sympathizers supporting the Dem ticket? Clearly, frequently, and unequivocally? If they do it, the media doesn't draw much attention to it. If the people ambushing police officers have a preference, it is for Biden/Harris. If the people burning down local businesses and throwing rocks through the windows of homes have a preference, it is for Biden/Harris. Yet Biden/Harris don't seem to denounce them. Harris positively encourages them, saying that the riots will and should continue. 

Charles Austin

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #3658 on: October 08, 2020, 08:17:25 AM »
Peter, you are either blind or dodging the facts. Biden has several times denounced street violence and rioting.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Parishes in Iowa, Nw York and New Jersey. LCA and LWF staff. Former journalist. Now retired, living in Minneapolis.

Charles Austin

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #3659 on: October 08, 2020, 08:20:01 AM »
The vice presidential debate:
Pence lied a lot.
Harris exaggerated.
Both dodged questions.
Nothing changed.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Parishes in Iowa, Nw York and New Jersey. LCA and LWF staff. Former journalist. Now retired, living in Minneapolis.