Author Topic: Election 2020  (Read 379021 times)

David Garner

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 7357
    • View Profile
    • For He is Good and Loves Mankind
Re: Election 2020
« Reply #2955 on: September 15, 2020, 11:30:44 AM »
I think I said before that if the Republicans dumped Trump and nominated someone else, I would even consider voting for that person just to reward  them for their common sense.

I have a difficult time believing this, based on your history here.

I can believe he would consider it and then decide not to vote for that candidate.

I'm certain Pr. Austin is a big fan of Mitt Romney's now that he voted to convict President Trump in the Senate trial.  And yet I am just as certain that he did not vote for Romney in 2012.

This is hitting every nail on every head.

Strange New Respect is just a catchphrase for Democratic gaslighting.  "Why can't this guy be more like Romney?"  Meanwhile in 2012 the same folks were accusing (or excusing the guy accusing) Romney of wanting to re-enslave black Americans.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

RPG

  • ALPB Forum Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 260
  • Don't feed the trolls!
    • View Profile
Re: Election 2020
« Reply #2956 on: September 15, 2020, 11:57:55 AM »
I think I said before that if the Republicans dumped Trump and nominated someone else, I would even consider voting for that person just to reward  them for their common sense.

I have a difficult time believing this, based on your history here.

I can believe he would consider it and then decide not to vote for that candidate.

I'm certain Pr. Austin is a big fan of Mitt Romney's now that he voted to convict President Trump in the Senate trial.  And yet I am just as certain that he did not vote for Romney in 2012.

This is hitting every nail on every head.

Strange New Respect is just a catchphrase for Democratic gaslighting.  "Why can't this guy be more like Romney?"  Meanwhile in 2012 the same folks were accusing (or excusing the guy accusing) Romney of wanting to re-enslave black Americans.
And quite similar to Dreher's Law of Merited Impossibility: "Oh, that will never, ever happen! But when it does, you bigots will deserve it."
The Rev. Ryan P. Gage
Eureka, SD

Charles Austin

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 13579
    • View Profile
    • Charles is Coloring
Re: Election 2020
« Reply #2957 on: September 15, 2020, 12:03:21 PM »
I wasn't thinking of Romney, I was actually thinking of Pence.
And I was out-of-my-head pondering (without hope, I know) whether the Republicans who see what a disaster they elected in 2016 would have enough guts to say "Enough!" Apparently, they don't; and that is a mystery to me. He must have a file-full of potentially scandalous dossiers on them; as Putin apparently has a cabinet-full of "stuff" on Him.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

peter_speckhard

  • ALPB Administrator
  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 17522
    • View Profile
Re: Election 2020
« Reply #2958 on: September 15, 2020, 12:08:02 PM »
I wasn't thinking of Romney, I was actually thinking of Pence.
And I was out-of-my-head pondering (without hope, I know) whether the Republicans who see what a disaster they elected in 2016 would have enough guts to say "Enough!" Apparently, they don't; and that is a mystery to me. He must have a file-full of potentially scandalous dossiers on them; as Putin apparently has a cabinet-full of "stuff" on Him.
It isn’t a lack of guts that keeps Republicans from saying “Enough!” It is just that they haven’t gotten tired of winning yet.😉

James J Eivan

  • Guest
Re: Election 2020
« Reply #2959 on: September 15, 2020, 12:12:34 PM »
I think I said before that if the Republicans dumped Trump and nominated someone else, I would even consider voting for that person just to reward  them for their common sense. As it is, I would not vote for someone who supported the president Even if they were a moderate  or liberal Republican. Ben Sasse has been quiet, so he’s off my list, too.
Once a yellow dog (or cat) democrat, always a yellow dog (or cat) democrat ... with your PhD in weasel wording, no doubt what is really being said is that the esteemed writer would even consider ... but probably would never vote republican ... anyone believing that this NYTimes devotee would actually not vote the democrat ticket probably also believes that David Brooks is a conservative.

Mike Gehlhausen

  • ALPB Forum Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 291
    • View Profile
Re: Election 2020
« Reply #2960 on: September 15, 2020, 12:22:37 PM »
I wasn't thinking of Romney, I was actually thinking of Pence.
And I was out-of-my-head pondering (without hope, I know) whether the Republicans who see what a disaster they elected in 2016 would have enough guts to say "Enough!" Apparently, they don't; and that is a mystery to me. He must have a file-full of potentially scandalous dossiers on them; as Putin apparently has a cabinet-full of "stuff" on Him.
It isn’t a lack of guts that keeps Republicans from saying “Enough!” It is just that they haven’t gotten tired of winning yet.😉

Ha. Good one.

I expect Trump to lose in November, but then I did in 2016 as well.  I was not confident on how Trump would be on pro-life issues in 2016 and have been pleasantly surprised.

Liberal media or not, I believed the media story that Trump never really wanted to be president and would find a way to bow out soon after taking office.  And then, he ran for re-nomination and is now running a full-throated campaign.

Whether he originally wanted to be president, Trump has fully embraced that now and for the future.  As have most Republicans in his remade party.

I approve of his policies for the most part.  However, I despise his rhetoric, mercurial nature, and lack of leadership.  It concerns me that he may go over the reservation regarding the policies he has supported so far and have a whole group behind him when doing so.

I know most of his supporters disagree.  I can understand why, but it does not quiet the uneasiness.

Charles Austin

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 13579
    • View Profile
    • Charles is Coloring
Re: Election 2020
« Reply #2961 on: September 15, 2020, 12:24:25 PM »
Peter writes:
It isn’t a lack of guts that keeps Republicans from saying “Enough!” It is just that they haven’t gotten tired of winning yet.

I muse (with some solid data):
So the Republicans are “winning”? Hmmm.
Let’s consider the last mid-term elections. Democrats pulled off the “biggest midterm victory in the country’s history,” according to Newsweek magazine, by claiming 8.8 million more votes than Republicans in House races.
Democrats flipped 38 House seats, in what Newsweek said was the “biggest popular vote difference for either party in the country’s history.”
In those mid-terms, Newsweek reported, the Democrats made gains in Republican-stronghold districts in California, New Jersey, Utah and other places, picked up seven governor’s mansions and held back the Republicans’ hope of increasing their dominance in the Senate.
Matter of fact, a problem the Democrats face is that the more "progressive" elements of the party are gaining ground locally, perhaps too much ground for the party as a whole.


Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

Terry W Culler

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 2227
    • View Profile
Re: Election 2020
« Reply #2962 on: September 15, 2020, 12:36:32 PM »
It seems to me that no one is touching on why Trump is the nominee.  It's because a large proportion of the Republican electorate support him.  The support of politicians doesn't necessarily derive from their own personal opinions, but from the opinions of the people who elected them.  No politician who wants to remain in office tells those who vote for him to go jump in a lake.  Charles should be angry with Ben Sasse, he should be angry with the people of Nebraska
Goodnewsforabadworld.wordpress.com

Dan Fienen

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 12583
    • View Profile
Re: Election 2020
« Reply #2963 on: September 15, 2020, 12:56:50 PM »
The Democratic Party has long impressed me as the party of sacrifice. No sacrifice is too great to ask of people if it is seen as advancing their vision of a better America. They are perfectly willing to sacrifice any number of unborn children to support their vision of readily available abortion to support women's choice. Eggs must be broken and they are quite willing to break them. Democratic governors and mayors are willing to sacrifice businesses and neighborhoods, even minority businesses and neighborhoods in support protestors and anarchists. They are willing to sell out the dedicated men and women on their police forces to appease those who have decided that all police are bad because a few are. They are willing to endure the minority of protestors who promote violence because most are peaceful, but are willing to defund and demean the majority of the good police because a few are bad. (And why should we believe that the Democratic administrations who allowed the police to get to the state where it is now are the ones who need to be in office to correct the problems that they allowed to arise?) They are willing to sacrifice the Second Amendment rights of law abiding American citizens in order to promote their dream of removing guns from citizens in the hopes of ending gun violence while at the same time reducing the ability of the police to protect the citizenry. To achieve their dream of an America that is ideologically pure in their regard of minorities and sexual minorities they are willing to sacrifice First Amendment religious liberty to force conformity. They are willing to sacrifice tolerance of dissent in the name of tolerance and acceptance.


Yes, the Democratic Party is the party of sacrifice, they will sacrifice anyone and anything that gets in their way to remake America into their utopian dream.
Pr. Daniel Fienen
LCMS

J.L. Precup

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 1122
    • View Profile
Re: Election 2020
« Reply #2964 on: September 15, 2020, 01:05:54 PM »
"When I vote, I vote my conscience.  I vote for candidates who best represent the public principles and values that I am committed to.  When I find both major party candidates (and both major parties) anathema, as I do this year, I will vote for those candidates who, in their public pronouncements, indicate that they are dedicated to policies I believe in.  Are you really suggesting that defeating Trump this year is so crucial that you would advise people, people who may be considering voting for a third party candidate, to vote in violation of their conscience?

If I were interested in being offended by this, I'd be offended by this.

Tom Pearson"

I'm glad you're not interested in being offended by this.  I also hope that after the election you will have no regrets. 

Two electricians I worked with in 1969 regretted voting for George Wallace even though they believed in his policies.

I'm interested in what they regretted and when.  Did they regret that Nixon was elected and think that Humphrey would have better reflected the segregationist policies they believed in?  Or did they believe in Humphrey's other policies and regret Nixon was elected for that reason?

Or did they just come after time to regret voting for Wallace at all because they eventually regretted believing in his policies?

I don't know if segregation was their primary reason for voting for Wallace.  We lived and worked in northern Illinois.  What was on their mind was the convention in Chicago.  They backed Daley's crackdown on protestors.  I'm guessing both of them were Democrats, but they weren't going to vote for anyone who coddled hippie protestors.  Their regret was like all of us eventually that Nixon had been elected.
Keep watch, dear Lord, with those who work, or watch, or weep this night, and give your angels charge over those who sleep. Tend the sick, Lord Christ; give rest to the weary, bless the dying, soothe the suffering, pity the afflicted, shield the joyous; and all for your love's sake. Amen.

Steven W Bohler

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 3791
    • View Profile
Re: Election 2020
« Reply #2965 on: September 15, 2020, 01:20:14 PM »
"When I vote, I vote my conscience.  I vote for candidates who best represent the public principles and values that I am committed to.  When I find both major party candidates (and both major parties) anathema, as I do this year, I will vote for those candidates who, in their public pronouncements, indicate that they are dedicated to policies I believe in.  Are you really suggesting that defeating Trump this year is so crucial that you would advise people, people who may be considering voting for a third party candidate, to vote in violation of their conscience?

If I were interested in being offended by this, I'd be offended by this.

Tom Pearson"

I'm glad you're not interested in being offended by this.  I also hope that after the election you will have no regrets. 

Two electricians I worked with in 1969 regretted voting for George Wallace even though they believed in his policies.

I'm interested in what they regretted and when.  Did they regret that Nixon was elected and think that Humphrey would have better reflected the segregationist policies they believed in?  Or did they believe in Humphrey's other policies and regret Nixon was elected for that reason?

Or did they just come after time to regret voting for Wallace at all because they eventually regretted believing in his policies?

I don't know if segregation was their primary reason for voting for Wallace.  We lived and worked in northern Illinois.  What was on their mind was the convention in Chicago.  They backed Daley's crackdown on protestors.  I'm guessing both of them were Democrats, but they weren't going to vote for anyone who coddled hippie protestors.  Their regret was like all of us eventually that Nixon had been elected.

Who is this "all of us" who regretted that Nixon had been elected? 

Brian Stoffregen

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 43160
  • ἐγὼ δὲ λέγω ὑμῖν, ἀγαπᾶτε τοὺς ἐχθροὺς ὑμῶν
    • View Profile
Re: Election 2020
« Reply #2966 on: September 15, 2020, 01:28:40 PM »
Having voted for Republicans my entire adult life, I was not bothered much by President Clinton’s tenure. I have to say that President Obama’s leadership, especially on the international stage (e.g., his apology tour) and his lying (e.g., “You can keep your doctor”) dismayed me more than any other president during my lifetime. President Carter’s handling of the hostage crisis gets honorable mention.

I've kept my doctors. You didn't?

This is analogous:

Someone comments that racial minorities have suffered discrimination. Brian responds to us on ALPB, "I've never been discriminated against because of my race. Have you?" Then he starts a new thread, polling us on ALPB as to how many of us have been discriminated against because of our race, intending to debunk the assertion that racial minorities have suffered discrimination.
  ::)


Considering that my mother's family were Jews - who escaped from Russia and Poland just before the revolution (think Fiddler on the Roof). Yes, my family has been discriminated against because of race (although not because of skin color).
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

J.L. Precup

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 1122
    • View Profile
Re: Election 2020
« Reply #2967 on: September 15, 2020, 01:38:51 PM »
"When I vote, I vote my conscience.  I vote for candidates who best represent the public principles and values that I am committed to.  When I find both major party candidates (and both major parties) anathema, as I do this year, I will vote for those candidates who, in their public pronouncements, indicate that they are dedicated to policies I believe in.  Are you really suggesting that defeating Trump this year is so crucial that you would advise people, people who may be considering voting for a third party candidate, to vote in violation of their conscience?

If I were interested in being offended by this, I'd be offended by this.

Tom Pearson"

I'm glad you're not interested in being offended by this.  I also hope that after the election you will have no regrets. 

Two electricians I worked with in 1969 regretted voting for George Wallace even though they believed in his policies.

I'm interested in what they regretted and when.  Did they regret that Nixon was elected and think that Humphrey would have better reflected the segregationist policies they believed in?  Or did they believe in Humphrey's other policies and regret Nixon was elected for that reason?

Or did they just come after time to regret voting for Wallace at all because they eventually regretted believing in his policies?

I don't know if segregation was their primary reason for voting for Wallace.  We lived and worked in northern Illinois.  What was on their mind was the convention in Chicago.  They backed Daley's crackdown on protestors.  I'm guessing both of them were Democrats, but they weren't going to vote for anyone who coddled hippie protestors.  Their regret was like all of us eventually that Nixon had been elected.

Who is this "all of us" who regretted that Nixon had been elected?

When Nixon left in disgrace one step ahead of being impeached, did you want him to stay?
Keep watch, dear Lord, with those who work, or watch, or weep this night, and give your angels charge over those who sleep. Tend the sick, Lord Christ; give rest to the weary, bless the dying, soothe the suffering, pity the afflicted, shield the joyous; and all for your love's sake. Amen.

Steven W Bohler

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 3791
    • View Profile
Re: Election 2020
« Reply #2968 on: September 15, 2020, 01:55:09 PM »
"When I vote, I vote my conscience.  I vote for candidates who best represent the public principles and values that I am committed to.  When I find both major party candidates (and both major parties) anathema, as I do this year, I will vote for those candidates who, in their public pronouncements, indicate that they are dedicated to policies I believe in.  Are you really suggesting that defeating Trump this year is so crucial that you would advise people, people who may be considering voting for a third party candidate, to vote in violation of their conscience?

If I were interested in being offended by this, I'd be offended by this.

Tom Pearson"

I'm glad you're not interested in being offended by this.  I also hope that after the election you will have no regrets. 

Two electricians I worked with in 1969 regretted voting for George Wallace even though they believed in his policies.

I'm interested in what they regretted and when.  Did they regret that Nixon was elected and think that Humphrey would have better reflected the segregationist policies they believed in?  Or did they believe in Humphrey's other policies and regret Nixon was elected for that reason?

Or did they just come after time to regret voting for Wallace at all because they eventually regretted believing in his policies?

I don't know if segregation was their primary reason for voting for Wallace.  We lived and worked in northern Illinois.  What was on their mind was the convention in Chicago.  They backed Daley's crackdown on protestors.  I'm guessing both of them were Democrats, but they weren't going to vote for anyone who coddled hippie protestors.  Their regret was like all of us eventually that Nixon had been elected.

Who is this "all of us" who regretted that Nixon had been elected?

When Nixon left in disgrace one step ahead of being impeached, did you want him to stay?

If the choice was Nixon or Humphrey (1968) or McGovern (1972), then the answer would be "yes". 

Dan Fienen

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 12583
    • View Profile
Re: Election 2020
« Reply #2969 on: September 15, 2020, 01:55:56 PM »
We all, of course, remember his resignation in disgrace, but Pres. Nixon also accomplished a number of good things while in office.


He established the EPA and OSHA.


He moved us from manned space flight using one time use spacecraft to the Space Shuttle.


He ended the Vietnam War through the Paris Peace Accords.


He opened diplomatic relations with the People's Republic of China.


Naturally it is much easier to only remember the bad things about people you dislike or despise and forget their good accomplishments. Likewise remember only accomplishments of people you support and forget or excuse away their faults. My people good, your people bad like you.


Life is messy and people are complicated, people often forget that.
Pr. Daniel Fienen
LCMS