Author Topic: Election 2020  (Read 379060 times)

Mike Gehlhausen

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #1245 on: July 13, 2020, 09:19:21 AM »
But sometimes it’s necessary provide information that allows people to look beyond protocols.

Perhaps, but why in this case?

And sometimes it’s necessary for the citizenry to know what has been delivered to its leadership behind closed doors And to know what the leadership did with that information.
The writer was not expressing views as a government official, but as a citizen.

And as Brian Hughes has expressed, those views stand in contradiction to his work as a government official.

There is much to criticize President Trump for, but I am surprised by the media's pushing on this point.

We do not know nor should we know or especially our enemies how the US government is responding on this question.

Criticize Trump's commuting of Roger Stone's sentences.  I do find that problemsome.  This just seems like messing around with foreign policy.

Julio

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #1246 on: July 13, 2020, 09:22:28 AM »
Yes, Brian, we know the protocols.
But sometimes it’s necessary provide information that allows people to look beyond protocols.
And sometimes it’s necessary for the citizenry to know what has been delivered to its leadership behind closed doors And to know what the leadership did with that information.
The writer was not expressing views as a government official, but as a citizen.
Gen Colon Powell apparently differs with this career bureaucrat ...

Colin Powell suggests media had ‘hysterical’ reaction to Russian bounty reports

https://nypost.com/2020/07/09/colin-powell-suggests-media-had-hysterical-reaction-to-russian-bounty-reports/amp/

Colin Powell: Media Reaction To Reports On Russian Bounty Intelligence Was ‘Hysterical’

https://thefederalist.com/2020/07/10/colin-powell-media-reaction-to-reports-on-russian-bounty-intelligence-was-hysterical/

Julio

DeHall1

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #1247 on: July 13, 2020, 09:37:28 AM »
Yes, Brian, we know the protocols.
But sometimes it’s necessary provide information that allows people to look beyond protocols.
And sometimes it’s necessary for the citizenry to know what has been delivered to its leadership behind closed doors And to know what the leadership did with that information.
The writer was not expressing views as a government official, but as a citizen.


Opinions are like eyeballs, everyone has at least one. So what?

Mike Gehlhausen

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Re: Election 202
« Reply #1248 on: July 13, 2020, 09:38:10 AM »
Opinions are like eyeballs, everyone has at least one. So what?

That seems awfully dismissive of the opinion of a former Secretary of State and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

You accuse us of being dismissive of the NY Times' articles and yet I was willing to consider what the CIA officer said.  Why should we consider his opinions when you are so dismissive of Secretary Powell's?  Especially when Secretary Powell has been quite critical of President Trump in the past.

You look for constructive dialogue here.  If so, I ask you to consider if this response was constructive.


Julio

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Re: Election 202
« Reply #1249 on: July 13, 2020, 09:48:36 AM »
Opinions are like eyeballs, everyone has at least one. So what?
So what??  General Powell’s credentials far exceed the credentials of this unknown career bureaucrat. As has been said .. everyone has at least one opinion ... but credentials also matter.

Mr Gehlhausen ... remember some suffer from Trump Derangement Syndrome ... and/or worship at the altar of the New York Times.

Julio 

Julio

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #1250 on: July 13, 2020, 12:34:27 PM »
Many here are being dismissive of the views of a person who has worked in the CIA for 34 years, with special responsibility for that part of the world.
And where did you get the idea that I was “dismissive” of General Powell’s comments? I never even mentioned him.
I also do not know what gives a recent poster credentials to evaluate the CIA agent’s (who, BTW, has a name so is not “unknown”) competence.
Of course no one indicated the op ed writer was unknown ... but a response such as this following the post of links to General Powell’s opinions ...
Opinions are like eyeballs, everyone has at least one. So what?
indicate a rather dismissive posture towards General Powell’s views ..

As Mike Gehlhausen indicates... Gen Powell is no fan of the president ... so for him not to pile on and or remain silent on the subject speaks volumes.

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #1251 on: July 13, 2020, 01:55:32 PM »
Many here are being dismissive of the views of a person who has worked in the CIA for 34 years, with special responsibility for that part of the world.

 My prior reflection still stands and you really do sound like a neo-con. The opinions of a long serving DOD employee about the reactions of the president are of no consequence as that individual has no idea what the president did with the information. He may have picked up the phone and greenlighted a special forces action against selected targets, sending that sort of quiet message. Or he may have made a private call to the ambassador. Why would a CIA officer be part of either?

The president has released a number of advisors who had pushed for a more robust public engagement in international conflicts and this sounds like much of the same. There will always be those who seek to draft others into wars not of their making.

Terry W Culler

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #1252 on: July 13, 2020, 08:09:00 PM »
Neo-cons are liberals who've been mugged
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James_Gale

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #1253 on: July 13, 2020, 08:32:07 PM »
Neo-cons are liberals who've been mugged


John Bolton is the proto-typical neo-con.  So is Bill Kristol.  Neither party suits them very well these days.  But most are decidedly "Never Trump."

Terry W Culler

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #1254 on: July 14, 2020, 07:43:35 AM »
What neo-cons lack is a substantive conservative philosophy.  In the 60's the disagreements among conservatives were defined by libertarian vs. Burkean thought.  Frank Meyer and Bill Buckley promoted a view based on the idea that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.  Then Roe v. Wade created a whole new perspective in the mix followed by the neo-cons.  The conservative movement is breaking apart now, fractured like a windshield hit by a stone.  Conservatives may be looking at a long period in the wilderness before a new consensus can be formed and translated into electoral victory.  We're back to what Buckley said about National Review when it was founded--our job is to stand athwart history yelling STOP!
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Mike Gehlhausen

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #1255 on: July 14, 2020, 08:07:02 AM »
What neo-cons lack is a substantive conservative philosophy.  In the 60's the disagreements among conservatives were defined by libertarian vs. Burkean thought.  Frank Meyer and Bill Buckley promoted a view based on the idea that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.  Then Roe v. Wade created a whole new perspective in the mix followed by the neo-cons.  The conservative movement is breaking apart now, fractured like a windshield hit by a stone.  Conservatives may be looking at a long period in the wilderness before a new consensus can be formed and translated into electoral victory.  We're back to what Buckley said about National Review when it was founded--our job is to stand athwart history yelling STOP!

Good thoughts.

I think Trump plays into this as well.  While he has supported pro-life causes as president, that in itself points only to the change you show that Roe v. Wade stimulated.  Trump is a pragmatist.  If anything. he harkens back to Eastern Establishment Republicanism.  It will be a long time before either neo-comservatism or paleo-conservatism makes a comeback politically.

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #1256 on: July 14, 2020, 08:42:13 AM »
What neo-cons lack is a substantive conservative philosophy.
That's because they're not conservatives, but cloaked themselves as such until conservatives started seeing through the mask. Notice how neocon ends line up with whoever is in power, so long as those in power adhere to the America Is Ever At War doctrine, something they hate Trump for, as he has no interest in it (early-on Never-Trumpers were most often Neocons, not people who simply couldn't stand the man). They had no problem with Obama, as he was chucking missiles every which way, and they would have had no problem whatsoever with a Clinton II Presidency for the very same reason, and would have much preferred her to him or any Republican as she was much more of a hawk than any of the others. It can be said that they are the War Party, and will go with whichever candidate serves that end.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2020, 09:39:07 AM by WJV »

Matt Hummel

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #1257 on: July 14, 2020, 08:47:04 AM »
What neo-cons lack is a substantive conservative philosophy.  In the 60's the disagreements among conservatives were defined by libertarian vs. Burkean thought.  Frank Meyer and Bill Buckley promoted a view based on the idea that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.  Then Roe v. Wade created a whole new perspective in the mix followed by the neo-cons.  The conservative movement is breaking apart now, fractured like a windshield hit by a stone.  Conservatives may be looking at a long period in the wilderness before a new consensus can be formed and translated into electoral victory.  We're back to what Buckley said about National Review when it was founded--our job is to stand athwart history yelling STOP!

Your point is well taken. As a student of history, I am resigned to the idea of “wilderness years.” It happens. What scares me about the “Progressive” Left is the fact that they will not be content with driving us out into the wilderness. They will want something more than a temporary solution to the issue of obstructionists and others in the way. I don’t think it’s 1968 all over again. I think it’s 1789, and welcome to France. If there is anyone who doesn’t see the crazylight of Jacobinism in the eyes of Ocasio, Omar, and others, get a guide dog. And Biden will be at best a figurehead. He will be no moderating force, nor Pelosi, nor Schumer. In the later two instances, I suspect it will be like the basic SF Movie after Election Day, when the invading aliens pull off their human mask and reveal who they truly are. I suspect that only a handful of idiots really like Trump. But a whole mess of people fear what “progress” has promised to bring. And we fear it, not from lack of understanding. We fear it, because we have heard the words of its leaders, and believe them to be speaking honestly.
Matt Hummel


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Mike Gehlhausen

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #1258 on: July 14, 2020, 08:56:57 AM »
I don’t think it’s 1968 all over again. I think it’s 1789, and welcome to France. If there is anyone who doesn’t see the crazylight of Jacobinism in the eyes of Ocasio, Omar, and others, get a guide dog. And Biden will be at best a figurehead. He will be no moderating force, nor Pelosi, nor Schumer. In the later two instances, I suspect it will be like the basic SF Movie after Election Day, when the invading aliens pull off their human mask and reveal who they truly are.

Yes, It looks like we are indeed in for turbulent change.  The 2020s look to be stressful indeed.  Come. Lord Jesus. Come soon!

John_Hannah

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #1259 on: July 14, 2020, 09:14:53 AM »
What neo-cons lack is a substantive conservative philosophy.  In the 60's the disagreements among conservatives were defined by libertarian vs. Burkean thought.  Frank Meyer and Bill Buckley promoted a view based on the idea that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.  Then Roe v. Wade created a whole new perspective in the mix followed by the neo-cons.  The conservative movement is breaking apart now, fractured like a windshield hit by a stone.  Conservatives may be looking at a long period in the wilderness before a new consensus can be formed and translated into electoral victory.  We're back to what Buckley said about National Review when it was founded--our job is to stand athwart history yelling STOP!

Your point is well taken. As a student of history, I am resigned to the idea of “wilderness years.” It happens. What scares me about the “Progressive” Left is the fact that they will not be content with driving us out into the wilderness. They will want something more than a temporary solution to the issue of obstructionists and others in the way. I don’t think it’s 1968 all over again. I think it’s 1789, and welcome to France. If there is anyone who doesn’t see the crazylight of Jacobinism in the eyes of Ocasio, Omar, and others, get a guide dog. And Biden will be at best a figurehead. He will be no moderating force, nor Pelosi, nor Schumer. In the later two instances, I suspect it will be like the basic SF Movie after Election Day, when the invading aliens pull off their human mask and reveal who they truly are. I suspect that only a handful of idiots really like Trump. But a whole mess of people fear what “progress” has promised to bring. And we fear it, not from lack of understanding. We fear it, because we have heard the words of its leaders, and believe them to be speaking honestly.

The United States is too strong to yield to such extremes, be they from the right or the left. I'm not afraid.

Peace, JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS