Author Topic: Election 2020  (Read 379059 times)

Dan Fienen

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #1230 on: July 06, 2020, 12:54:11 PM »
It is disturbing that Barack Obama when running for president did not see Mt. Rushmore as the monument to the evil of White Supremacy as is now being recognized. No matter. The Freedom Fighters and Champions of the People that are the Taliban knew how to deal with monuments to evil. A bit of artillery target practice and the monuments to evil will trouble the good people no more.
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D. Engebretson

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #1231 on: July 06, 2020, 01:15:04 PM »
Apparently several US presidents, and some running for the high office, have visited Mount Rushmore:
https://www.kotatv.com/content/news/The-Black-Hills-has-long-history-of-presidential-visits-571619601.html

Trump's visit, however, has sparked an unusual reaction.
First of all, because he is Trump.  He is a lightening rod for protest and reaction.
Second of all, because we are in a national (and even international) season of iconoclasm. 

It was the perfect storm, one not realized by past honorary visitors.

The other day a statue of Frederick Douglas was toppled.  Apparently iconoclasm has spread far beyond the monuments to the Confederacy.  Nothing is really safe.  Anything is fair game. 
« Last Edit: July 06, 2020, 02:47:11 PM by D. Engebretson »
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Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #1232 on: July 06, 2020, 04:13:57 PM »
Just kidding.  Everyone knows it wasn't an atrocity until The Year of Our Lord, 2020, July 4.


I believe that when Henry Standing Bear commissioned the sculpting of the Crazy Horse Monument in 1948, 17 miles from Mt. Rushmore, that was a bit of a statement against those other sculptures on sacred native land. Actually, his brother, Luther Standing Bear tried to get the project started in 1931 when he wrote to the sculptor carving the heads on Mt. Rushmore. He never replied.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

David Garner

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #1233 on: July 08, 2020, 11:40:18 AM »
In a 7-2 decision, the Supreme Court has extended the Hosanna-Tabor decision, holding that teachers in parochial schools may not sue under anti-discrimination laws.  This is an enormous victory for religious freedom.

Notably, the two dissenters were Sotomayor and Ginsberg.  Ginsberg is, of course, a Clinton appointee and unlikely to be on the court past the next election cycle.  Sotomayor was an Obama appointee.  For those of us who value religious freedom, an election issue in 2020 will be whether we want more appointees like Sotomayor and Ginsberg or more appointees like the majority (which includes Kagan and Breyer, notably, but more as blessed exceptions to a general rule than indicators of the type of rulings we can expect from a candidate who is boat racing to pander to hard left social interests in advance of the election).

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/19pdf/19-267_1an2.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1ZT6QglYKjpAZfCbejq8v_e4JhC9JMGrWRnIcG7ln9VkNPo_soNSnD8Wg
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James_Gale

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #1234 on: July 08, 2020, 01:30:57 PM »
In a 7-2 decision, the Supreme Court has extended the Hosanna-Tabor decision, holding that teachers in parochial schools may not sue under anti-discrimination laws.  This is an enormous victory for religious freedom.

Notably, the two dissenters were Sotomayor and Ginsberg.  Ginsberg is, of course, a Clinton appointee and unlikely to be on the court past the next election cycle.  Sotomayor was an Obama appointee.  For those of us who value religious freedom, an election issue in 2020 will be whether we want more appointees like Sotomayor and Ginsberg or more appointees like the majority (which includes Kagan and Breyer, notably, but more as blessed exceptions to a general rule than indicators of the type of rulings we can expect from a candidate who is boat racing to pander to hard left social interests in advance of the election).

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/19pdf/19-267_1an2.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1ZT6QglYKjpAZfCbejq8v_e4JhC9JMGrWRnIcG7ln9VkNPo_soNSnD8Wg


The Supreme Court seems poised to decide its last three cases tomorrow morning.  One involves jurisdictional issues over criminal cases involving an alleged crime by an enrolled tribe member on tribal land.  This case won't attract much attention.  The other two involve the enforceability of subpoenas (by a House Committee and by a New York state grand jury) for President Trump's tax/financial records.  These decisions will attract a great deal of attention.  Moreover, if the Court rules against the president in either case, we can expect leaks from now till election day from any documents produced.


I'll be interested to see the legal reasoning underlying the two opinions.  I'll also be interested to see whether CJ Roberts will follow his occasional practice of steering the Court away from what he perceives to be political entanglement. 

John_Hannah

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #1235 on: July 09, 2020, 09:40:58 AM »
Given how Colonel Vindman was mobbed and bullied to the point where he chooses to resign from the army, And given the words that the president and his surrogates have spoken about senator Duckworth, I wonder how anybody who has  ever worn a uniform or had a relative in uniform or who cares about respect for those who wear the uniform could vote for him.
P.S. those of you who want to justify his words and actions, or excuse the words of those around him, go at it. If you can.

Integrity is held as a necessary and paramount feature of character by those in uniform. Colonel Vindman is a clear example; his story will probably become a textbook case. Lieutenant Colonel (Retired) Duckworth, the Senator, is another.

Peace, JOHN
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Mike Gehlhausen

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #1236 on: July 09, 2020, 10:00:04 AM »
Given how Colonel Vindman was mobbed and bullied to the point where he chooses to resign from the army, And given the words that the president and his surrogates have spoken about senator Duckworth, I wonder how anybody who has  ever worn a uniform or had a relative in uniform or who cares about respect for those who wear the uniform could vote for him.
P.S. those of you who want to justify his words and actions, or excuse the words of those around him, go at it. If you can.

Trump and Tucker Carlson's personal attacks on Senator Duckworth are deplorable.  I repudiate them.  Senator Duckworth served her country faithfully, and she paid a high price.

Politically though, she is playing a game of chicken with President Trump that affects the promotions of 1100 service personnel.  I don't think that reflects well on either of them.

I've always thought the Ukraine thing was overblown in trying to get something to stick in impeaching Trump.  A move to censure Trump should have been made instead.  Some Republicans might have joined that.  Nevertheless, Lt. Col. Vindman got mixed up in that.  It's sad, but that's the reality.

I'm no fan of Trump, but I also don't think it reflects well on the Democrats to play petty games with people's livelihoods.  Rise above such things.  That shows your superiority over Trump in being able to lead.  Getting down in the dirt with him doesn't.  The best thing Senator Duckworth could do is permit the promotions to go through.

James_Gale

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #1237 on: July 09, 2020, 10:39:41 AM »
Given how Colonel Vindman was mobbed and bullied to the point where he chooses to resign from the army, And given the words that the president and his surrogates have spoken about senator Duckworth, I wonder how anybody who has  ever worn a uniform or had a relative in uniform or who cares about respect for those who wear the uniform could vote for him.
P.S. those of you who want to justify his words and actions, or excuse the words of those around him, go at it. If you can.

Integrity is held as a necessary and paramount feature of character by those in uniform. Colonel Vindman is a clear example; his story will probably become a textbook case. Lieutenant Colonel (Retired) Duckworth, the Senator, is another.

Peace, JOHN
Chaplain (Colonel-Retired), U.S. Army


I agree with you regarding Senator Duckworth.  I don't agree regarding Colonel Vindman.  He inserted himself into a political process to pursue a purely political agenda.  Active military officers simply can't do this.  Ever.  (He admitted that he leaked the conversation between Trump and Zelensky to someone in the intelligence services (almost certainly his friend Eric Ciaramella) because he disagreed with Trump's foreign policy approach to Ukraine.  He then said that he leaked information outside the chain of command because he did not think that it was proper for the president to demand that a foreign government conduct a criminal investigation of a US citizen, but when pushed, he admitted that he had no evidence that any such demand had been made.)
« Last Edit: July 09, 2020, 10:49:08 AM by James_Gale »

MaddogLutheran

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #1238 on: July 09, 2020, 10:56:59 AM »
I don't agree regarding Colonel Vindman.  He inserted himself into a political process to pursue a purely political agenda.  Active military officers simply can't do this.  Ever.
Yes.  I've come to believe it's even worse than that.  I think Vindman was the prime mover in all this.  He was the one on the call.  The whisteblower was not.  I think Vindman recruited the whisteblower to make the complaint, because he could not.  Of course, given the anonymity, it's impossible to evaluate their relationship, though if identity rumors are true, they did have one.  As an active duty officer detailed to the NSC, I don't believe Vindman had the freedom to go public even if he had resigned.  The honorable thing to do would have been to quietly resign, but I guess that wasn't good enough for him.  It's important to remember that there is still disagreement over whether the statutory whistleblower protections even applied to complainant.  That was the initial controversy, that it was not reported to the congressional oversight committee.

This was a policy disagreement, not a criminal matter.   The criminal case was never made because no one was interested in pursuing whether Hunter Biden deserved to be investigated.  The criminalization of policy disagreements (the Logan Act being another example) has been creeping into American politics for a while now, and it's a terrible trend.  I'm not saying I agree with Trump's interest in Hunter Biden.  Of course it was self-serving.  But just like the media wasn't interested when Obama put children in cages, I don't understand, given the interest in Trump's taxes, why nobody questioned Hunter's qualifications and compensation for the position he held while his father was Vice President.  It's why Trump's insipid "drain the swamp" mantra has traction with some.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2020, 11:20:34 AM by MaddogLutheran »
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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #1239 on: July 09, 2020, 12:18:46 PM »
This was a policy disagreement, not a criminal matter.
Yep. Check out some of what was said in the testimony Vindman gave:
Quote
When I joined the National Security Council in July of 2018 , I began implementing the administration' s Ukraine policy . In the spring of 2019, I became aware of outside influencers promoting a false narrative of Ukraine inconsistent with the consensus views of the entire interagency. This narrative was harmful to U S. Government policy. While my interagency colleagues and I were becoming increasingly optimistic about Ukraine' s prospects, this alternative narrative undermined U. S. Government efforts to expand cooperation with Ukraine.
Essentially: the President was moving in a different direction than the "interagency" had chosen, and this could not be tolerated. It is clear that at least some functionaries regard themselves as being in charge — that does not bode well for democratic institutions.

John_Hannah

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #1240 on: July 09, 2020, 12:59:09 PM »
Colonel Vindman was hardly the only person concerned about what the President was doing in Ukraine. There were three ambassadors, two of whom were appointed by the president. There were Bolton, also appointed by Trump and the head of the NSC, a Defense Department accountant, and others.

Their concern was not about a policy that was at the discretion of the president but about congressional appropriation and the intent of congress to support Ukraine's defense of its border in a "hot war."

I don't know that Vindman was the one to "trip the wire" because it could have been any number of others. Eventually, congress would have known simply because routine year end reports would have shown that its appropriation to Ukraine had not been sent.

I do think it was unwise of the House to impeach rather than reprimand, but they didn't ask me.   :)

Peace, JOHN
« Last Edit: July 09, 2020, 01:11:59 PM by John_Hannah »
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Dan Fienen

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #1241 on: July 12, 2020, 11:32:58 PM »
We have been hearing for four years the President Trump is a fascist, an imminent threat to democracy, free speech, and a free press. How many news people has he jailed for publishing things he didn't like? How many news outlets has he closed down? How effective has he been at censoring the internet? How many entertainment figures has he gotten fired for saying things he didn't like?


In this same time frame, how many news people have been fired for publishing things that the Left didn't like? How many entertainers have been fired for having at some time in their life said something or posted something that the Left didn't like? Where does the "cancel culture" come from, the White House?
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J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #1242 on: July 13, 2020, 12:22:54 AM »
Pastor Fienen, the farms around you must’ve produced a bumper crop of straw. You’ve built enough straw men (did you build any straw women?) to dance do-si-dos in four squares. But I suppose they would have a problem with an allemand left? Only allemand rights,  Right?
 :D

Our family tradition is to watch the Peter Stone/Sherman Edwards musical "1776" every July 4th.  With that fresh in mind I can't resist:

Quote
Come ye cool, cool considerate set
We'll dance together to the same minuet
To the right, ever to the right
Never to the left, forever to the right

Let our creed
Be never to exceed
Regulated speed
No matter what the need

Greek Orthodox-Ecumenical Patriarchate

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Served as a Lutheran Pastor October 31, 1989 - October 31, 2014.
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Chrismated Antiochian Orthodox, eve of Mary of Egypt Sunday, A.D. 2015

Julio

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #1243 on: July 13, 2020, 01:08:15 AM »
We have been hearing for four years the President Trump is a fascist, an imminent threat to democracy, free speech, and a free press. How many news people has he jailed for publishing things he didn't like? How many news outlets has he closed down? How effective has he been at censoring the internet? How many entertainment figures has he gotten fired for saying things he didn't like?


In this same time frame, how many news people have been fired for publishing things that the Left didn't like? How many entertainers have been fired for having at some time in their life said something or posted something that the Left didn't like? Where does the "cancel culture" come from, the White House?
Gracia Padre Fienen ... there is so much blatant bias in the press today that the press feels obligated to BE the news because they are no longer capable of objectivity reporting the news.  Watch the raw feed of many events ... IF they are even reported on, any reporting of the actual event facts by the press is purely accidental.

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Re: Election 2
« Reply #1244 on: July 13, 2020, 08:26:29 AM »
What the president knew about Russians offering “bounties” for dead U.S. soldiers. From the senior, 34-year veteran CIA Officer who told him and is shocked at the lack of response.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/12/opinion/trump-russia-bounties.html

I'm surprised Charles, you're starting to sound like a neo-con who seeks US involvement in another conflict. That a CIA Officer was shocked at the response means nothing. Why should a president reveal to a DOD employee how he plans to respond? I had members in my last congregation who wrote and presented security briefings to President Obama. What the president did with the information was no concern of theirs as it was not their place to make policy.