Author Topic: Election 2020  (Read 249366 times)

Voelker

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4455 on: November 06, 2020, 09:28:49 AM »
One of the most interesting question to come out of this election, if current trends prevail, is:

What will the huge "Orange Man Bad" industry do without him?
Wither and die, we can hope.

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4456 on: November 06, 2020, 09:29:37 AM »
One of the most interesting question to come out of this election, if current trends prevail, is:

What will the huge "Orange Man Bad" industry do without him?

Oh, my next totally-not-surprised moment will be in 2024 when whomever the Republicans put on the ballot is an incorrigible racist and can't we all go back to the niceness of the Trump Administration.
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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4457 on: November 06, 2020, 09:54:14 AM »
Pastor Engebretson:
So the "Green Deal" will have to give way to more politically realistic energy policies.  "Medicare For All" will have to be set aside for a more balanced discussion on health care.  Approaches to funding law enforcement will have to back away from the idea of "defunding".  Yes, there may be sectors of our country itching for big, radical moves away from the 'way we've always done it.' But there are also sectors in this country who do not side with the progressive agenda.  Look at the very, very tight race we are in at the moment.  Even if Biden wins, and I'm still conceding that he will, the margin of victory hardly signals a mandate to steamroll over the red of this country as if they do not count.  If he is serious about governing as a president that represents all people, then he cannot adopt all his stump policies as is.

Me:
Yes, this is true. Those who scream about the extremists in the Democratic Party are just blowing smoke.
So "Socialist" Sanders (that is what he calls himself) is just smoke? "The Squad" is just smoke? The Democrats who have declared a revolution are just smoke? There are extremists in the Democratic Party just as there are extremists on the right in the Republican Party. Neither extreme is the whole of either party and, much as they would like to think so, neither extreme is really the "real" Democrats or Republicans. If the Democrats want to effectively govern, they will now need to restrain their more extreme factions and govern more from the middle, not merely deploring and excoriating those who did not vote for him but also listening to them and steer a more moderate course. Let us see if Biden can keep his campaign pledge and govern not as the Democratic President but the American President.
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JEdwards

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4458 on: November 06, 2020, 09:54:49 AM »
As the results get ever closer to a final count, it continues to appear that Biden will gain the 270 needed.  I know there will be wrangling over irregularities, recounts, etc., but I'm already looking ahead now to what the new political landscape signifies at least for the next two years.

Since the "blue wave" did not materialize, regardless of last minute final vote counts, the dynamics of governance will be far less one sided (than perhaps hoped in some quarters), or, for that matter, "progressive".  In a highly divisive country our leaders will need to find a way to govern without appealing to or appeasing the edges.  Unless we are going to live in perpetual gridlock for the next couple of years - or longer - they need to find a way to move to middle ground and talk.  I don't think that personalities like Sanders or AOC or "The Squad" can be the front runners in this new era of governance.  If they are government will be essentially ineffective on the really large issues it needs to address and move forward on.

So the "Green Deal" will have to give way to more politically realistic energy policies.  "Medicare For All" will have to be set aside for a more balanced discussion on health care.  Approaches to funding law enforcement will have to back away from the idea of "defunding".  Yes, there may be sectors of our country itching for big, radical moves away from the 'way we've always done it.' But there are also sectors in this country who do not side with the progressive agenda.  Look at the very, very tight race we are in at the moment.  Even if Biden wins, and I'm still conceding that he will, the margin of victory hardly signals a mandate to steamroll over the red of this country as if they do not count.  If he is serious about governing as a president that represents all people, then he cannot adopt all his stump policies as is.

It will be interesting to see if Biden can move, like Bill Clinton, more to the middle to govern.  His platform going into the election was touted as the most progressive as any to date.  But now he will have to be a president "for all the people."  Can he do it?  Can he work in a deeply divided country without widening the division even more?
In general, Trump ran behind other Republicans nationwide.  To the extent that any close election can send a message, I think it is that this was more a repudiation of the Trump personality than of his policies.  Like it or not, when all day, every day, the news is about Trump (regardless of how blame for that should be allocated), there is less room to advocate or oppose policies on their merits.  I would argue that the true "silent majority" in America prefers incremental change in policies and doesn't like bomb throwers from either side.

Peace,
Jon

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4459 on: November 06, 2020, 09:57:58 AM »
Peter:
So we’re agreed that the Green New Deal and Medicare for all are extremist positions? That we who think so could count on your support to vote against candidates who promote them?
Me:
No, but when it comes to actually making legislation, everything is up for discussion and compromise.That’s why ultra conservative evangelicals fail as politicians. If you believe you have the actual word of God in what you propose, you can’t compromise. And if you do, those who supported you will call you a traitor or heretic.

I think that there are a number of areas that conservative Christian legislators could compromise without sacrificing principal.  Obviously any law completely legalizing abortion would not be an area they could compromise, but energy policies, for example, I would think would be an area that could be productively discussed, as well as a whole host of other policies including gun regulation and healthcare.  But both sides will need to come to the middle. 
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

James J Eivan

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4460 on: November 06, 2020, 10:06:53 AM »
This is all wise counsel, and I'll add this -- Republicans are all but certain to hold the Senate.  The Alaska race has a wide margin and I'd wager mail in ballots won't be as heavily skewed as in other states due to distance and climate.  Sullivan almost certainly wins that.  He polled ahead consistently, and I have yet to see the polls that were off in favor of a Republican, so he likely wins.  Simple math says Tillis in NC also likely holds on (and the president likely holds his lead there too).  In Georgia, the runoff election will not be nearly as competitive, and Purdue has more votes than Ossoff now and the combined Collins/Loeffler and other Republicans vote is ahead of Warnock and the other Democrats.  So basically, in a runoff scenario, the Republicans are well positioned to have a 2 seat majority in the Senate.

Given that, hardcore obstructionism or partisanship will damage the party that does it.  The media always skews things to the Democrats' favor, but this election has taught us that the American people are not nearly as easily led as they and other institutions might prefer.  Republicans have gained seats in the House and history indicates the House is likely to flip in 2022. We have divided government for the foreseeable future.  Republicans held most state houses as well, meaning redistricting will be in their hands.

The point is, Donald Trump has probably lost the presidency.  Fairly, despite accusations of tampering and funny business.  If he has not, the recounts in Wisconsin and probably Georgia and Arizona and elsewhere will bear that out.  If he has, the recounts will hopefully put to rest the idea that improper votes were counted and we can move on.
Interesting question following this election ... it is said that elections have consequences ... but who can claim that following this election? Obviously the Dems may have won the Presidency if the fraud is disproved or swept under the carpet.

No doubt aging Supreme Court justices will not gamble on the outcome of the 2024 election in the same way RBG counted on having a President HRC appoint her replacement.  Elections have consequences ... Biden may appiont if he ultimately wins ... but the senate still has advice and consent.

The House lost dems ... and has to worry about loosing the house ... perhaps Pelosi and company will be a bit more civil and reasonable.  Maybe Dems will realize that she has been so toxic that they replace her.  Tragically the Schumer media provided soapbox will only increase but each day is closer to his retirement.

The republicans have a dilemma ... Harris would be a disaster as President .. do they continue to prove the Hunter Biden allegations and drive him from office quicker than his mental decline does?

Julio

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4461 on: November 06, 2020, 10:23:12 AM »
Peter:So we’re agreed that the Green New Deal and Medicare for all are extremist positions? That we who think so could count on your support to vote against candidates who promote them? Me:No, but when it comes to actually making legislation, everything is up for discussion and compromise.That’s why ultra conservative evangelicals fail as politicians. If you believe you have the actual word of God in what you propose, you can’t compromise. And if you do, those who supported you will call you a traitor or heretic.
I think that there are a number of areas that conservative Christian legislators could compromise without sacrificing principal.  Obviously any law completely legalizing abortion would not be an area they could compromise, but energy policies, for example, I would think would be an area that could be productively discussed, as well as a whole host of other policies including gun regulation and healthcare.  But both sides will need to come to the middle. 
Interesting theory… But in the case of gun control, where is acceptable middleground that doesn’t trash the second amendment?

Given the distrust for government in general, the idea of them knowing who owns guns and where they are stored and who doesn’t is quite frankly scary.

aletheist

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4462 on: November 06, 2020, 10:24:16 AM »
What will the huge "Orange Man Bad" industry do without him?
Gear up for when he runs again in 2024, riding the outrage over this election being supposedly "stolen" from him and his supporters. He is already laying the groundwork with his rhetoric since early Wednesday morning. Will Republicans line up for him once more in the primaries? If no one could stop him last time, who will do so this time?
Jon Alan Schmidt, LCMS Layman

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with great diligence in the Church, the Word of God is rightly divided according to the admonition of St. Paul." (FC Ep V.2)

James J Eivan

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4463 on: November 06, 2020, 10:36:27 AM »
What will the huge "Orange Man Bad" industry do without him?
Gear up for when he runs again in 2024, riding the outrage over this election being supposedly "stolen" from him and his supporters. He is already laying the groundwork with his rhetoric since early Wednesday morning. Will Republicans line up for him once more in the primaries? If no one could stop him last time, who will do so this time?
Perhaps the country will be weary … They may have elected a 78-year-old man in 2020… And dealt with dementia related issues… Why would they turn around in 2024 and elect another 78 year old man… Risking the same health related issues?

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4464 on: November 06, 2020, 10:52:19 AM »
Peter:So we’re agreed that the Green New Deal and Medicare for all are extremist positions? That we who think so could count on your support to vote against candidates who promote them? Me:No, but when it comes to actually making legislation, everything is up for discussion and compromise.That’s why ultra conservative evangelicals fail as politicians. If you believe you have the actual word of God in what you propose, you can’t compromise. And if you do, those who supported you will call you a traitor or heretic.
I think that there are a number of areas that conservative Christian legislators could compromise without sacrificing principal.  Obviously any law completely legalizing abortion would not be an area they could compromise, but energy policies, for example, I would think would be an area that could be productively discussed, as well as a whole host of other policies including gun regulation and healthcare.  But both sides will need to come to the middle. 
Interesting theory… But in the case of gun control, where is acceptable middleground that doesn’t trash the second amendment?

Given the distrust for government in general, the idea of them knowing who owns guns and where they are stored and who doesn’t is quite frankly scary.


I am a gun owner and a hunter, so gun rights are a priority item for me in terms of governmental regulation.  That said, as a gun owner I live with a certain amount of regulation that most gun owners accept, and we are willing to discuss other reasonable regulations.  Much of Biden's current platform on which he ran feels excessive to me.  I am trusting that most of it will not see the light of day if it is proposed to the House.  With the tighter margins of the existing majority I don't think that radical gun control measures will have any more chance of becoming a reality than they did under Obama.  But there are always ways to improve existing regulation that can be discussed.  But Biden has to be willing to back away from his previous agenda and meet the other side where they are at.
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

mariemeyer

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Re: Thursday’s Presidential Address
« Reply #4465 on: November 06, 2020, 11:26:09 AM »
The President spoke to the nation ... or attempted to.   Similar to early Wednesday morning, the MSM preempted the President ...first ABC ... next NBC ... finally CBS.

For the entire Thursday Presidential speech ... beginning 20:30 into the video...

https://m.youtube.com/watcv=ni40sjwxjDg

The afternoon Sean Hannity radio program promises that the 8p eastern Sean Hannity program on Fox will provide concrete evidence of voter irregularities and other legal issues that will have to be resolved before the final voting results can be certified.

Without access to Fox News, look for YouTube segments afterwards.

The day we entrust our fact checking to tyrannical big tech,Twitter specifically, the country has lost its soul!🤐


Trivia for those who watch Fox News.   One of my daughters was the voter registrar when Sean Hannity cast his vote on Tuesday.

Until two daughters were registrars this election I had no idea of what is involved in the job.  Both had to be up at five and worked long into the night.One reported the problem with the Sharpie pens the government provided.  They were not replaced until late in the afternoon.  Other states reported problems with the pens.

Waiting patiently for news of who will be our next president..

Marie Meyer

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4466 on: November 06, 2020, 11:37:18 AM »
One of the most interesting question to come out of this election, if current trends prevail, is:

What will the huge "Orange Man Bad" industry do without him?

Depends on how long Biden lasts.  I'm expecting the same people will be producing "Crazy Joe" merchandise.

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4467 on: November 06, 2020, 11:40:15 AM »
Pastor Fienen writes:
So "Socialist" Sanders (that is what he calls himself) is just smoke? "The Squad" is just smoke? The Democrats who have declared a revolution are just smoke? There are extremists in the Democratic Party just as there are extremists on the right in the Republican Party. Neither extreme is the whole of either party and, much as they would like to think so, neither extreme is really the "real" Democrats or Republicans. If the Democrats want to effectively govern, they will now need to restrain their more extreme factions and govern more from the middle, not merely deploring and excoriating those who did not vote for him but also listening to them and steer a more moderate course. Let us see if Biden can keep his campaign pledge and govern not as the Democratic President but the American President.
I comment:
And it will help, Pastor Fienen, if those of us in the trenches give him a chance, help him when we can and not – repeat not – dwell on or wallow in words like “socialist,” or fret about a few young legislators, “The Squad,” and keep alive every memory of any alleged statement or suggestion made during the heat of a campaign. Nor will it help to keep raising unnecessary fears based on what minor players may have said.

JEdwards writes:
In general, Trump ran behind other Republicans nationwide.  To the extent that any close election can send a message, I think it is that this was more a repudiation of the Trump personality than of his policies.
I comment:
I’m sure analysts are already trying to find ways to spot this in the vote totals. Why did Republicans do well, but not the president? Did many people split their ticket, voting for Biden, then voting for Republicans on the state level? A repudiation of the Trumpocracy would be a good sign for the future of the party. I noticed that key leaders of the party did not sign on to his most recent rant about the voting process, but then some time passed, and I think someone – McConnell probably – told a few minions to “get out there! Say something to support Him!”
And they signed on to his anti-democracy lies.
No, I will not recant those words. That Trump rant was an assault on our country, using lies to cast doubts on the sacred process of voting. Coming from a President in office at a time like this, it was more than his usual ego-trip. But one almost feels sorry for him; because he does not even begin to comprehend what he did, how it profaned his office and how that screed hurt us.   
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

Charles Austin

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4468 on: November 06, 2020, 11:48:03 AM »
A law professor at Columbia University Law School and author of “The Law of Democracy: Legal Structure of the Political Process," says the law suits won't change anything. Some are inept, some ask for decisions already made and some challenge the courts in ways that the courts do not like to be challenged. In other words, they are typical Trump.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/05/opinion/trump-lawsuits-courts-election.html
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Dan Fienen

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #4469 on: November 06, 2020, 11:49:03 AM »
Pastor Fienen writes:
So "Socialist" Sanders (that is what he calls himself) is just smoke? "The Squad" is just smoke? The Democrats who have declared a revolution are just smoke? There are extremists in the Democratic Party just as there are extremists on the right in the Republican Party. Neither extreme is the whole of either party and, much as they would like to think so, neither extreme is really the "real" Democrats or Republicans. If the Democrats want to effectively govern, they will now need to restrain their more extreme factions and govern more from the middle, not merely deploring and excoriating those who did not vote for him but also listening to them and steer a more moderate course. Let us see if Biden can keep his campaign pledge and govern not as the Democratic President but the American President.
I comment:
And it will help, Pastor Fienen, if those of us in the trenches give him a chance, help him when we can and not – repeat not – dwell on or wallow in words like “socialist,” or fret about a few young legislators, “The Squad,” and keep alive every memory of any alleged statement or suggestion made during the heat of a campaign. Nor will it help to keep raising unnecessary fears based on what minor players may have said.

Agreed, it is necessary for both sides to be willing to reach across the aisle and work together for workable solutions that do not necessary completely please them or their constituents nor completely please the other side.


It will be interesting to see if the Republicans can avoid following the example of the Democrats from the last election and spend the next four years resisting the election past as the Democrats did the last four years. They did not set a good example for Republicans to follow. I suspect that in politics as in parenting "Do as I say, not as I do" does not work well.
Pr. Daniel Fienen
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