Author Topic: Election 2020  (Read 188514 times)

Charles Austin

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2020, 10:12:06 PM »
There is no average voter.
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Richard Johnson

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2020, 10:25:26 PM »
"Democratic presidential hopeful Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.) on Tuesday said that the Democratic Party should be a 'big tent' for people of different beliefs, including those who oppose abortion rights.'

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/482607-klobuchar-we-need-to-build-a-big-tent-for-anti-abortion-democrats
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Dana Lockhart

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2020, 10:33:35 PM »
Sanders would be a formidable opponent in November. Most pundits arguing that he "can't win" really mean that they do not want him to win. He absolutely can. 

A head to head election against Trump will be extremely clarifying: does the center-left (and to some extent, the center-right) really mean all of the rhetoric that has been expressed about the unique threat of Trump's presidency? If those sentiments were the least bit sincere, then they will align behind whoever the Democratic nominee will be. Even if it is Sanders.

President Trump expressed the other day that he would rather run against Bloomberg than Sanders. Maybe this was clever politics. I don't know what he really thinks, but the the rationale he gave has merit… Who is the stronger opponent: the guy with a passionate, mobilized base that supports him 100%, or the guy whose popularity is largely based on people doing electoral algebra?

The problem with picking a nominee not by choosing who you most like yourself, but rather who other people would be most likely to vote for [i.e. "electability"] is that if you get the calculation wrong, you end up with a candidate you don't really want and who also cannot win. Bloomberg has huge weaknesses as a candidate. He also has billions of dollars and a solid record as mayor of NYC. Does that get him MI, PA, and WI? Who knows?

What we do know is this: Sanders has the organization and donor base to stay in this until the convention no matter what (baring a medical catastrophe). He also has a solid "floor" in the Democratic Party, meaning he will be competitive as long as there are multiple candidates. It's a lot like the GOP primary in 2016… sure, if Rubio, Cruz and Kasich drew straws and decided that ONE of them was going to be the anti-Trump, it might have worked. But that's not what happened. I doubt very much that will be how it goes for the Dems in 2020 either…



« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 10:47:38 PM by Dana Lockhart »

James

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2020, 11:10:32 PM »
"Democratic presidential hopeful Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.) on Tuesday said that the Democratic Party should be a 'big tent' for people of different beliefs, including those who oppose abortion rights.'

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/482607-klobuchar-we-need-to-build-a-big-tent-for-anti-abortion-democrats
Looking for something that would cause a Pro-Life voter to vote for Klobuchar ....
Quote
Klobuchar, who is running as a centrist candidate and alternative to Sens. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), said while she is "pro-choice" but she doesn't think the party should shut out Democrats who disagree.[/size][/font]
"There are pro-life Democrats, and they are part of our party, and I think we need to build a big tent," she said."I think we need to bring people in instead of shutting them out." <snip>

Klobuchar and other Democratic presidential candidates have vowed to reverse the Trump administration's anti-abortion policies and to only appoint judges that support Roe v. Wade, the landmark Supreme Court ruling that established a woman's right to abortion. <snip>

According to a Kaiser Family Foundation poll conducted in December, 15 percent of Democrats surveyed consider themselves "pro-life" while 84 percent said they are "pro-choice." [/size][/font]
Top-tier candidate and former South Bend, Ind., Mayor Pete Buttigieg received a question on the issue from an anti-abortion Democrat at a Fox News town hall last month. [/size][/font]
“I respect where you’re coming from, and I hope to earn your vote, but I’m not going to try to earn your vote by tricking you. I am pro-choice,” Buttigieg said.
“I know that the difference of opinion that you and I have is one that we have come by honestly and the best that I can offer, and it may win your vote and if not, I understand — if we can’t agree on where to draw the line, the next best thing we can do is agree on who should draw the line, and in my view, it’s the woman who’s faced with that decision," he said.
Supporting abortion rights is a key part of the Democratic National Committee's platform. Campaign groups like the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee have faced pressure from progressives to stop supporting Democrats who oppose abortion rights. Emphasis added
The Democratic Attorneys General Association announced in November it would only endorse candidates that support abortion access.

Perhaps a perfect example of ‘Big tents are for circuses’ as we are reminded by one of our esteemed forum members. ;)

[/size][/color]
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J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2020, 12:17:12 AM »
"Democratic presidential hopeful Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.) on Tuesday said that the Democratic Party should be a 'big tent' for people of different beliefs, including those who oppose abortion rights.'

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/482607-klobuchar-we-need-to-build-a-big-tent-for-anti-abortion-democrats

A quarter century too late for me.

When the DNC muzzled former PA Governor Robert Casey, Sr., to prevent him from delivering a pro-life message to their assembly I came to Pr. Tibbetts' conclusion that "big tents are for circuses".
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 12:19:17 AM by J. Thomas Shelley »
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Steven Tibbetts

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2020, 12:42:29 AM »
I found this article to be thoughtful and interesting:

https://medium.com/@karlyn/ive-been-a-democrat-for-20-years-here-s-what-i-experienced-at-trump-s-rally-in-new-hampshire-c69ddaaf6d07

Instagram's "knitting world" sounds like an "ELCA clergy" Facebook group.
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peter_speckhard

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2020, 12:58:35 AM »
When there are for all practical purposes only two parties, both of them have to be pretty big tents by default. That’s why it is so important to identify one core issues that is non-negotiable. It doesn’t mean you don’t care about other issues, but that when push counts to shove and everything gets boiled down to two tents, you’ll know which one you ultimately belong in.

Charles Austin

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2020, 06:38:39 AM »
“One issue” people can congratulate themselves on finding their own moral island. But they will be ignoring morality or ethics in general and they are quite likely to be politically ineffective and very good prey for those who know how to manipulate the naive portions of the electorate.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Missing NY/NJ and trips to Europe. I despise Daylight Savings Time which serves no purpose, disrupts my quotidian body clock and (I am reliably told) severely troubles cows and other huggable farm animals.

Jeremy Loesch

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2020, 07:07:30 AM »
What is Sen. Klobuchar going to say that will attract any pro-life person into her camp, or the Democrat's camp? That abortion in the 3rd trimester is a bridge too far? If she were to say that, it would be a lose-lose strategy on her part. She'd lose the Democratic party's support and she'd gain nothing from pro-lifers.

I have a hard time believing her comments were anything but disingenuous. I know there are pro-life Democrats; there just aren't any pro-life Democratic presidential candidates, or Congrrssional members.

Jeremy
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Steven W Bohler

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2020, 08:36:37 AM »
“One issue” people can congratulate themselves on finding their own moral island. But they will be ignoring morality or ethics in general and they are quite likely to be politically ineffective and very good prey for those who know how to manipulate the naive portions of the electorate.

And your one issue, apparently, is removing Donald Trump.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2020, 08:49:28 AM »
“One issue” people can congratulate themselves on finding their own moral island. But they will be ignoring morality or ethics in general and they are quite likely to be politically ineffective and very good prey for those who know how to manipulate the naive portions of the electorate.
Ah, so your strategy is to vote for the moral and ethical candidate, who always happens to be a Democrat. Okay.

If this is what it is like to be politically ineffective, well, I find it bearable. The most naive portion of the electorate is up for giving socialism the fair chance it never seems to have had.

Birkholz

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2020, 08:50:50 AM »
What is Sen. Klobuchar going to say that will attract any pro-life person into her camp, or the Democrat's camp? That abortion in the 3rd trimester is a bridge too far? If she were to say that, it would be a lose-lose strategy on her part. She'd lose the Democratic party's support and she'd gain nothing from pro-lifers.

I have a hard time believing her comments were anything but disingenuous. I know there are pro-life Democrats; there just aren't any pro-life Democratic presidential candidates, or Congrrssional members.

Jeremy

Representative Dan Lipinski is one of the few pro-life Democrats left in the house, and represents my district in the House.  He voted against the Affordable Care Act and has voted for restrictions on abortion.  He narrowly avoided losing in a primary in 2018 and they are gunning for him this time around again.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/09/dan-lipinski-pro-life-democrat-refuses-to-embrace-abortion-on-demand/
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Rev Mathew Andersen

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #42 on: February 13, 2020, 09:36:57 AM »
“One issue” people can congratulate themselves on finding their own moral island. But they will be ignoring morality or ethics in general and they are quite likely to be politically ineffective and very good prey for those who know how to manipulate the naive portions of the electorate.
I did not vote for Trump in the last election because I figured he would be like all the others, say how much he cares about the pro-life cause and do nothing.  However, he actually did things to limit abortion funding and to promote pro-life judges.  So this year he gets my vote.

David Garner

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #43 on: February 13, 2020, 09:38:06 AM »
“One issue” people can congratulate themselves on finding their own moral island. But they will be ignoring morality or ethics in general and they are quite likely to be politically ineffective and very good prey for those who know how to manipulate the naive portions of the electorate.
Ah, so your strategy is to vote for the moral and ethical candidate, who always happens to be a Democrat. Okay.

If this is what it is like to be politically ineffective, well, I find it bearable. The most naive portion of the electorate is up for giving socialism the fair chance it never seems to have had.

I have a friend -- a good friend actually -- who I had to block on FB because he did things like respond to my posts with "don't be a dick."  They weren't posts where I was actually doing anything bad.  What I did wrong was generally 1) attack the media, which apparently is helpless and cannot fend for itself, or 2) post an article critical of Democrats without some disclaimer saying Republicans are worse, or 3) post an article critical of Republicans but failing to point out that I will never, ever, ever, ever vote for one while I'm at it.  He voted for Trump in the primary. I did not.  He voted for Mrs. Clinton in the general.  I also did not. 

But for whatever reason he blames me for Trump's election.  He sent me a text this morning that began "I haven’t jumped your **** for a while. But I’ve got to ask: do you appreciate why I have been so disappointed?"  Now, consider this -- he thinks for some reason he's been very tolerant and good and kind not to jump in my ____ in a while.  But the underlying premise is that is something that should be done, and he, a friend, should be the one to do it.  Not because I voted for Trump because I didn't.  But rather because I did not vote for Hillary.

That mindset is not unique to the left, but it is more prevalent there in my observation.  I also have Republican friends who were mad at me for not voting for McCain or Romney, but they never took it to those lengths even when President Obama got 8 years in office.  They never blamed me for his election, because I did not vote for him.

My point is this -- I think people with that mindset, that my vote is theirs to control by abuse, coercion, shaming, etc. -- underestimate the degree to which they make me want to vote specifically for the person they hate so much.  Because as much as I dislike him too, people who think they have license to control my thoughts and my vote scare the ......... same expletive my friend used in his text ......... out of me.
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Coach-Rev

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #44 on: February 13, 2020, 09:45:43 AM »
"Democratic presidential hopeful Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.) on Tuesday said that the Democratic Party should be a 'big tent' for people of different beliefs, including those who oppose abortion rights.'

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/482607-klobuchar-we-need-to-build-a-big-tent-for-anti-abortion-democrats

Which runs completely counter to what Mayor Pete said:  https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/mayor-pete-dodges-the-question-again/

and front runner Bernie as well:  https://decisionmagazine.com/bernie-sanders-no-place-for-pro-life-democrats/?fbclid=IwAR3r9bNnVh8S9G6fVVb2UV70rTLy8NjI5kp6-K02bnDSC6EBpdjS7jRC7Xc
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 11:28:14 AM by Coach-Rev »
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