Author Topic: Halftime Show  (Read 7111 times)

Eileen Smith

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Re: Halftime Show
« Reply #45 on: February 04, 2020, 03:04:16 PM »
While I apologize for my earlier rant, I'll stand by it.  It doesn't go directly to the Super Bowl half-time show but rather that women dressing, acting, and speaking in provocative ways in so many arenas has led us to   be inured to this type of behavior, behavior that once may have been unacceptable is now fit to emulate.   As women took on more and more roles in the workplace, in the church, in politics, they - we - acted and dressed in a way so as to be taken seriously - to be listened to, not looked at.  Today it seems young women want it all:  to be looked at and be taken seriously.  It's a difficult balance to maintain.

To the issue of the two performers who 'represent' Latinas may I suggest that this is not a homogeneous population.   Blacks are not homogeneous, Asians are not homogeneous, yes - even old white men aren't homogeneous.  But we tend to lump people into ethnic buckets and then treat them as if they are identical.  Not every Latina was moved to pride by the half-time program.  Our friends from Puerto Rico have two daughters, both teenagers.  They were not happy specifically as they didn't want their daughters to consider that this is appropriate behavior.   

 

peter_speckhard

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Re: Halftime Show
« Reply #46 on: February 04, 2020, 03:11:59 PM »

Peter's moral outrage apparently stops with the Latina halftime show.  I just saw a GIF of the Kansas City (Missouri, not by the way) cheerleaders in their garb in full cheer mode.  I guess in "You're Fired" mode they'd be gone as well.  Last year Adam Levine sang the entire halftime show shirtless.  No moral outrage, though.  That's reserved for Latinas.

Dave Benke
Dave, you are, or could be, a lot better than this. You know full well that none of my objections to the halftime show have anything whatsoever to do with race. Yet you post the above anyway. Sad and unhelpful at every level of discourse. And it also just plain false at an objective level. I wrote an article many years ago (I think for FL-- you're a subscriber, you probably read it) making reference to Miley Cyrus "twerking" in her Super Bowl halftime performance. I'm pretty sure (but not positive because I don't normally care) that she is a person of colorlessness, or a white woman. My "moral outrage" at that which is deliberately designed to be morally outrageous (or "transgressive" as people into that sort of thing usually call it) is, at the very least, equal opportunity moral outrage.
 

You may not feel that way but it comes across that way, Peter.

Dave Benke
Really? Even though you are perfectly aware that objective, demonstrable reality conflicts with your take, the feeling of it justifies a bogus and inflammatory accusation of racism? No wonder fewer and fewer serious people even care whether someone calls them a racist, and at least one fewer person even cares what you in particular have to say. If you can just tell I'm a racist because I think soft-porn on live family programming is bad regardless of the race of those engaged in it, then indeed you might inhabit the planet Charles inhabits and which he claims is different from the one I inhabit.

As it happens, I'm not the only one who can read what you write.  Some of those who read what you write are neither white nor male.  They have responded by wanting you to experience carino y caridad from them directly.  Any time you're in the Big Apple.

Dave Benke
Fine. Glad to oblige. But if they strip to their underwear, spread their legs, and finger their crotch at me, or rub themselves up and down in a stripper pole, I won’t take it as a welcoming, Christian expression of Latin culture. I’ll think it obscene, like that halftime show was. 

DCharlton

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Re: Halftime Show
« Reply #47 on: February 04, 2020, 03:14:20 PM »
You may not feel that way but it comes across that way, Peter.

OK Boomer.
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Steven Tibbetts

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Re: Halftime Show
« Reply #48 on: February 04, 2020, 04:30:45 PM »
Hips don't lie.
The Rev. Steven Paul Tibbetts, STS
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Linda

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Re: Halftime Show
« Reply #49 on: February 04, 2020, 04:35:11 PM »
Jennifer Lopez is beautiful and in fantastic shape.  I wish she didn't insist on showing everyone what gets her off.

Linda

Richard Johnson

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Re: Halftime Show
« Reply #50 on: February 04, 2020, 04:37:32 PM »
Over on one of the ELCA clergy Facebook pages, someone posted an article which lambasted the "Christian critics" of the halftime show because those same Christians don't have any problem with the amoral sexual antics of Mr. Trump. The responses generally fell into two categories: The dancers were Latinas, and you white people don't have any right to criticize. Or, the dancers were (mostly) women, and you misogynistic males don't have any right to tell them what they can and can't do with their bodies.

Makes Peter's comments appear rational, calm, and intelligent. Which they were, IMO. I was only peripherally watching the show, but my response was, "Really?"
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

David Garner

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Re: Halftime Show
« Reply #51 on: February 04, 2020, 04:51:09 PM »
I now have to wonder whether Dr. Benke watched the halftime show at all, honestly.  It was not, in any way, a wholesome demonstration of Latin dance phenomena.  It was as Pastor Speckhard has described it -- a (not really) soft porn show.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

peter_speckhard

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Re: Halftime Show
« Reply #52 on: February 04, 2020, 06:24:16 PM »
Over on one of the ELCA clergy Facebook pages, someone posted an article which lambasted the "Christian critics" of the halftime show because those same Christians don't have any problem with the amoral sexual antics of Mr. Trump. The responses generally fell into two categories: The dancers were Latinas, and you white people don't have any right to criticize. Or, the dancers were (mostly) women, and you misogynistic males don't have any right to tell them what they can and can't do with their bodies.

Makes Peter's comments appear rational, calm, and intelligent. Which they were, IMO. I was only peripherally watching the show, but my response was, "Really?"
Not being on Facebook anymore, I missed that discussion. But I would be stunned if they devoted the halftime show to Donald Trump's sexual antics and no conservative "Christian critics" objected. But that criticism is actually quite similar to the original criticism from Dave about picking on Latinas. The thought process seems to be that because everything is about racism and sexism and Trump, anything anyone says that I disagree with must somehow result from racism, sexism, or Trumpism. It is a really cramped and tedious box from which to look out at the world, rendered more cramped by the sheer number of people who insist on climbing inside it.   

Charles Austin

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Re: Halftime Show
« Reply #53 on: February 04, 2020, 07:10:54 PM »
Let’s look at it this way, Peter.
You think the halftime show was lewd and immoral and you wish it had not been aired.
I think you admit that Trump is immoral and hardly a role model. But you don’t mind him being president.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

James_Gale

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Re: Halftime Show
« Reply #54 on: February 04, 2020, 07:20:12 PM »
I watched the game and halftime show with a group of friends, most of whom would consider Pr. Austin to be unbearably conservative.  I thought that a couple of them would do violence to the television when the Trump ad aired.


They universally were repulsed by the halftime show.  The consensus was that no children should watch it, let alone participate in it.

James J Eivan

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Re: Halftime Show
« Reply #55 on: February 04, 2020, 07:22:44 PM »
Let’s look at it this way, Peter.
You think the halftime show was lewd and immoral and you wish it had not been aired.
I think you admit that Trump is immoral and hardly a role model. But you don’t mind him being president.
Apparently you did not mind Clinton being president ..if you did, provide a reference from your body of 30 - 40,000 posts on this humble forum .. so your argument is simply venting hot air. Your case of TDS is particularly severe ... is there any topic of discussion that is free from your prejudice and TDS?

peter_speckhard

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Re: Halftime Show
« Reply #56 on: February 04, 2020, 07:26:43 PM »
Let’s look at it this way, Peter.
You think the halftime show was lewd and immoral and you wish it had not been aired.
I think you admit that Trump is immoral and hardly a role model. But you don’t mind him being president.
If the decision were to air that dance for the halftime show or air the rape scene from A Clockwork Orange for halftime, I would be happy with the decision to air the dance.

If either of those dancers ever runs for president on a pro-life ticket against a pro-choice ticket, she’ll have my vote even if she installs a dancing pole in the White House.

David Garner

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Re: Halftime Show
« Reply #57 on: February 04, 2020, 08:09:13 PM »
I watched the game and halftime show with a group of friends, most of whom would consider Pr. Austin to be unbearably conservative.  I thought that a couple of them would do violence to the television when the Trump ad aired.


They universally were repulsed by the halftime show.  The consensus was that no children should watch it, let alone participate in it.

I was talking to my wife about this tonight.  People who think it's about brown skin or salsa dancing are beclowning themselves.  Nobody minds brown-skinned people of whatever ethnic persuasion salsa dancing.

It's this part that was offensive:

....they strip to their underwear, spread their legs, and finger their crotch at me, or rub themselves up and down in a stripper pole

You could put Ivanka Trump, Megyn Kelly and Katie Pavlich up there doing a polka dance, and if those things were part of the deal, every conservative complaining about this would be complaining about that too.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

James J Eivan

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Re: Halftime Show
« Reply #58 on: February 04, 2020, 08:14:00 PM »
Perhaps the 21st century solution to this is to google ‘YouTube salsa dancing’ (without the ‘’ marks). A quick review of the first few videos showed nothing resembling the Super Bowl Halftime ‘show’.


While YouTube is not the be-all end-all answer to societal issues, it can provide some assistance demonstrating what at least some of us might consider salsa dancing.

Jeremy Loesch

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Re: Halftime Show
« Reply #59 on: February 05, 2020, 09:23:09 AM »
Here is a good interview from Issues, Etc.  Dr. Jennifer Roback-Morse of the Ruth Institute speaks about the halftime show and the ads that were not run.  One interesting point that she made was that the show was about sexual grooming- this is the way people are to be viewed, as sexual objects, and that it normalizes this behavior. 

https://issuesetc.org/2020/02/04/0353-the-super-bowl-ads-and-half-time-show-dr-jennifer-roback-morse-2-4-20/

And Pres. Benke, I hope you reread the comments on this thread.  The comments have not been about the ethnicity of the dancers; they have been about the dancing of the dancers.  I've never seen that kind of salsa dancing.  You've been to St. Louis a time or two...the dancing at the halftime show is what takes place east of the river at the "Sauget Ballet", where the barre that is used isn't horizontal to the ground, but vertical. 

Jeremy
A Lutheran pastor growing into all sorts of things.