Welcome to Chicago

[ptmccain]

I was really just kidding MB.

[Maryland Brian]

I was really just kidding MB.

Uh, I couldn't tell.  See how hard this communication thing is???  :-)

MD Brian

[Laroki]

I was a voting member in Orlando and will never forget the demonstration surrounding the third rec vote.  The defiance and stubborn refusal to obey the bishop was breathtaking.  I too, sat close, in the second row.  I sometimes work with large groups of children and so I have little tolerance for such methods of mass manipulation.  I would never allow my own children to get away with such behavior, either.  I kept coming back to this analogy again and again, the demonstrators being the defiant children and the adults firmly saying "no".  I can't imagine I was alone in my opinions.  I believe the demonstration definitely cost Good Soil dearly. 

[aberaussie]

I was there as well, as a volunteer.  I heard no positive responses to the demonstration.
Katie Abercrombie

[pastorg1@aol.com]

Arrested development in so many ways...

Pete Garrison

[Maryland Brian]

"The struggle is not over, LGBT Lutherans and their allies both clergy and lay will not relent until justice and mercy prevail." Emily Eastwood, Executive Director, Lutherans Concerned/North America

Note the, "will not relent until ..."  They have a difficult time hearing no.

BTW, I've often wondered how the self-defined "B" in the above lingo fits into all this.  At some point it must mean the "B" in the group makes a decision about their sexuality in order to remain in a monogamous relationship.  That must mean sexuality is a choice.  Or it might mean LC/NA has no real intention of stopping at monogamy.

Anyway, only rhetorical questions this morning.  If this takes off into a conversation about Bisexuality and what that means for same-sex couples and LC/NA's ultimate intent ... we can start something in Your Turn.

I only raise it in the context of the understanding LC/NA's final agenda and "will not relent."

MD Brian

[Laroki]

"The struggle is not over, LGBT Lutherans and their allies both clergy and lay will not relent until justice and mercy prevail." Emily Eastwood, Executive Director, Lutherans Concerned/North America

Note the, "will not relent until ..."  They have a difficult time hearing no.

BTW, I've often wondered how the self-defined "B" in the above lingo fits into all this.  At some point it must mean the "B" in the group makes a decision about their sexuality in order to remain in a monogamous relationship.  That must mean sexuality is a choice.  Or it might mean LC/NA has no real intention of stopping at monogamy.

Anyway, only rhetorical questions this morning.  If this takes off into a conversation about Bisexuality and what that means for same-sex couples and LC/NA's ultimate intent ... we can start something in Your Turn.

I only raise it in the context of the understanding LC/NA's final agenda and "will not relent."

MD Brian

Just a rhetorical theory:  What if we all claimed sexual minority status by explaining that we are all, in fact, bisexual.  We have simply decided on one monogamous partner and that partner just happens to be of the opposite sex and we have married them.  Then we could all be "extraordinary"!

[Deb_H.]

What if we all claimed sexual minority status

Sort of like the characters in the Star Bellied Sneeches book, by Dr. Seuss? 

by explaining that we are all, in fact, bisexual.  We have simply decided on one monogamous partner and that partner just happens to be of the opposite sex and we have married them.  Then we could all be "extraordinary"!

This is, in fact, pretty much what one 'expert' told the sexuality task force -- that everyone is, to some degree or another, homosexually oriented.  Some more than others, of course, but all on a continuum (not a bell curve).  He claimed no one is 100% heterosexual or homosexual, based on 'scientific' studies where people were asked to watch different combinations of couplings and measuring heart rate changes, etc.  Doesn't really fit into the "I was born that way, it's not a choice, can't change it" reasoning, if so many of us have been able to "choose" one partner (opposite sex) and so I'm not sure what they made of that input to the task force. 

The sexuality task force never really did spend a lot of time hearing from sexual minorities other than the GL set, or talking about them even, but since the Lutheran Youth voted to welcome and support people of ALL SEXUAL ORIENTATIONS they will get to talk about it someday in the ELCA, I am sure (even though I don't think the youth had any idea just how many 'orientations' are out there nowdays).

If we all claimed bisexual status and said we just "chose" to marry opposite sex, we'd have to also support those who would choose otherwise, I suppose, so this strategy wouldn't work.  I don't think orientation is a choice, but that still doesn't make it good, or bless-able. (it's a bondage, as in 'we are in bondage to sin and cannot free ourselves.')  Adam and Eve were created good; after that, the rest of us come into the world as sinners.

Debbie Hesse

[JEdwards]

I'm kind of hopeful for another big showy protest at the ELCA convention.

I assume that you hope for the well-being of the Church Universal and the success of her mission.  Can you explain how these hopes coexist?

Jon Edwards

[Mike Bennett]

I'm kind of hopeful for another big showy protest at the ELCA convention.

I assume that you hope for the well-being of the Church Universal and the success of her mission.  Can you explain how these hopes coexist?

Jon Edwards

I'm not Paul, but I can offer one way these hopes could coexist.  The sooner those who would trouble the Church are exposed for what they are and are forced to withdraw in shame, the better.  Before you rise up and accuse me of an unChristian attitude, remember the imprecatory Psalms. 

Mike Bennett

[Rev. BT Ball]

To the ELCA folks out there - has a more complete schedule of the CWA been released yet?  I have looked on the ELCA website and only found the times for the plenary sessions, services, meals etc.   Is there anything more specific?  Thanks.
Pr. Ben Ball, St. Paul's Ev. Lutheran Church, Brookfield, IL

[Mike Bennett]

To the ELCA folks out there - has a more complete schedule of the CWA been released yet?  I have looked on the ELCA website and only found the times for the plenary sessions, services, meals etc.   Is there anything more specific?  Thanks.
Pr. Ben Ball, St. Paul's Ev. Lutheran Church, Brookfield, IL

This might be what you're looking for, unless you've already been here:

http://www.elca.org/assembly/votingmatters/

Mike Bennett

[Rev. BT Ball]

Thanks: that is where I was and if you hit the schedule link, you'll see there isn't much there regarding specifics.
Pr. Ball+

[Michael_Rothaar]

To the ELCA folks out there - has a more complete schedule of the CWA been released yet?  I have looked on the ELCA website and only found the times for the plenary sessions, services, meals etc.   Is there anything more specific?  Thanks.
Pr. Ben Ball, St. Paul's Ev. Lutheran Church, Brookfield, IL

This might be what you're looking for, unless you've already been here:

http://www.elca.org/assembly/votingmatters/

Mike Bennett

I assume Pr. Ball is seeking a tentative order of business within the plenaries -- something I'd love to see, as well, to better plan my week. Even before the assembly begins, there exists at least an approximate notion of when elections will be balloted, when various motions will be considered, etc. Since my volunteering services downtown were only requested on Monday, I won't necessarily attend the assembly or tune in to the web site throughout the week. No point in sitting through greetings from dignitaries and en bloc voting matters if one is not one of those poor saps a voting member of the assembly.

[Rev. BT Ball]

Pr. Rothaar-
that is exactly what I am looking for;  I'd like to head downtown to observe a bit, and I'd like to plan prudently (e.g. not taking the train in and getting stuck listening to discussions about finance).  If a more complete schedule is released, would you please post it?

As an aside, I have passed by your parish many, many times.  My wife's OB is down the street; and I'll be by in a couple days to see the ultrasound of the next arrow in the quiver.

Pr. Ben Ball+