Author Topic: “United Lutheran Mission Association” Wha?  (Read 4019 times)

Padre Emeritus

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“United Lutheran Mission Association” Wha?
« on: December 20, 2019, 01:41:53 PM »
I got a letter and brochure from the “United Lutheran Mission Association” whose byline is “To establish traditional Lutheran congregations wherever God opens a door”.  My analysis is this is NOT an LCMS groups, but describes itself as Waltherian.

I received the letter because I am on Emeritus status and they wonder if this is voluntary.  They say many LCMS Emeritus Pastors would love to be serving a congregation but have perhaps been retired without their full cooperation.  Really?  I guess this could happen....I deliberately worked myself out of a job as parish and high school took on a new and never done before type of arrangement and I set up my successor to be Pastor of the congregation and Chaplain and theology teacher at the high school.  Anyway....sorry for the detour....my wife tells me I do it in sermons and conversations, and my college students loved my tangents because they weren’t testable material.....

Going back to ULMA, they list a “Walther Seminary” in Decatur, IL, where the correspondence originates.  They describe wanting to plant old-style LCMS congregations or find Emeritus LCMS Pastors to serve their vacancies.

Anyone else get this?  What say all y’all?  Oh, GO PACKERS!
The Old Padre Dave Poedel, now retired, coming back to catch up with friends, old and new

Steven Tibbetts

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Re: “United Lutheran Mission Association” Wha?
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2019, 01:51:44 PM »
Pastor Zip describes the ULMA as:
Quote from: Pastor Zip's US Lutheran Web Links
A very small mission association of independent congregations formed in 2005 by two congregations that had earlier departed from the Missouri Synod. Consciously "Old Missouri," the ULMA places greatest authority (beyond, of course, the Scriptures, Creeds, and Confessions) in the congregation's voters assembly.

Pax, Zip+
The Rev. Steven Paul Tibbetts, STS
Pastor Zip's Blog

Dave Benke

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Re: “United Lutheran Mission Association” Wha?
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2019, 02:13:34 PM »
I got a letter and brochure from the “United Lutheran Mission Association” whose byline is “To establish traditional Lutheran congregations wherever God opens a door”.  My analysis is this is NOT an LCMS groups, but describes itself as Waltherian.

I received the letter because I am on Emeritus status and they wonder if this is voluntary.  They say many LCMS Emeritus Pastors would love to be serving a congregation but have perhaps been retired without their full cooperation.  Really?  I guess this could happen....I deliberately worked myself out of a job as parish and high school took on a new and never done before type of arrangement and I set up my successor to be Pastor of the congregation and Chaplain and theology teacher at the high school.  Anyway....sorry for the detour....my wife tells me I do it in sermons and conversations, and my college students loved my tangents because they weren’t testable material.....

Going back to ULMA, they list a “Walther Seminary” in Decatur, IL, where the correspondence originates.  They describe wanting to plant old-style LCMS congregations or find Emeritus LCMS Pastors to serve their vacancies.

Anyone else get this?  What say all y’all?  Oh, GO PACKERS!

This is the association of three congregations, two from Central Illinois and one from Michigan, that houses the once and always Jack Cascione.  His congregation left the Missouri Synod and ended up in the ULMA.  So the missions they've started are as follows:  (fill in the blank, because it's empty space right now).

Mostly, Jack is out there combating the short ending of Mark, on catechetical grounds.

Dave Benke

Steven Tibbetts

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Re: “United Lutheran Mission Association” Wha?
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2019, 02:21:40 PM »

This is the association of three congregations, two from Central Illinois and one from Michigan, that houses the once and always Jack Cascione.  His congregation left the Missouri Synod and ended up in the ULMA.  So the missions they've started are as follows:  (fill in the blank, because it's empty space right now).


They have a mission in Southern California.

spt+
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Pastor Zip's Blog

Dave Benke

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Re: “United Lutheran Mission Association” Wha?
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2019, 04:52:37 PM »

This is the association of three congregations, two from Central Illinois and one from Michigan, that houses the once and always Jack Cascione.  His congregation left the Missouri Synod and ended up in the ULMA.  So the missions they've started are as follows:  (fill in the blank, because it's empty space right now).


They have a mission in Southern California.

spt+

Okeydokey - from 3 to 4 - 25% growth!

Dave Benke

peter_speckhard

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Re: “United Lutheran Mission Association” Wha?
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2019, 05:22:17 PM »
The idea of targeting emeritus pastors makes sense, though, because it is an ongoing problem. There are pastors who are forced into retirement because the congregation wants to call someone with a different personality. There are pastors who were forced to retire because the congregation didn’t appreciate his adherence to agreed upon practices. And there are pastors who insist on staying on long after retirement age after, when  their ability to shepherd the flock has gone downhill. Finances, control issues, and a host of other things play into it, including lots of emotional investment on both sides. Nobody who has given his life to serving in a particular place wants to be told not to let the door hit him on the way out. Nobody wants to see their beloved pastor treated as less than an amazing chapter in the congregation’s history. Nobody wants their congregation to suffer irreparable harm from a pastor who is living on his reputation, or who has some theological hobby-horse that he needs a congregation in order to ride, or whatever. So if I were in some micro synod, I’d view  emeritus pastors as a pretty good mailing list of prospective allies. Most, of course, enjoy perfectly good relationships with the synod and their former congregations. But not all. And that remainder is low hanging fruit.

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Re: “United Lutheran Mission Association” Wha?
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2019, 05:38:56 PM »

This is the association of three congregations, two from Central Illinois and one from Michigan, that houses the once and always Jack Cascione.  His congregation left the Missouri Synod and ended up in the ULMA.  So the missions they've started are as follows:  (fill in the blank, because it's empty space right now).


They have a mission in Southern California.

spt+

Okeydokey - from 3 to 4 - 25% growth!

Dave Benke
33%! Even better!  :D

Peace,
Michael
Fr. Michael Slusser
Retired Roman Catholic priest and theologian

Dave Benke

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Re: “United Lutheran Mission Association” Wha?
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2019, 05:50:07 PM »
The idea of targeting emeritus pastors makes sense, though, because it is an ongoing problem. There are pastors who are forced into retirement because the congregation wants to call someone with a different personality. There are pastors who were forced to retire because the congregation didn’t appreciate his adherence to agreed upon practices. And there are pastors who insist on staying on long after retirement age after, when  their ability to shepherd the flock has gone downhill. Finances, control issues, and a host of other things play into it, including lots of emotional investment on both sides. Nobody who has given his life to serving in a particular place wants to be told not to let the door hit him on the way out. Nobody wants to see their beloved pastor treated as less than an amazing chapter in the congregation’s history. Nobody wants their congregation to suffer irreparable harm from a pastor who is living on his reputation, or who has some theological hobby-horse that he needs a congregation in order to ride, or whatever. So if I were in some micro synod, I’d view  emeritus pastors as a pretty good mailing list of prospective allies. Most, of course, enjoy perfectly good relationships with the synod and their former congregations. But not all. And that remainder is low hanging fruit.

I can see what you're saying, but that basket of fruit is from the field on the right side of the farmhouse, and also those from that right field who were or are unhappy with the Missouri Synod. 

As to the math from Fr. Slusser, this has always been a math problem I have not solved well.  So there were three, now there are four.  Meaning the mission is one of four or 25%.  At the same time, the mission was 3 and added one, or one third more (kind of) .  And that's why we stick with the verbal rather than the mathematical area of life.

Dave Benke

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: “United Lutheran Mission Association” Wha?
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2019, 06:03:54 PM »
The idea of targeting emeritus pastors makes sense, though, because it is an ongoing problem. There are pastors who are forced into retirement because the congregation wants to call someone with a different personality. There are pastors who were forced to retire because the congregation didn’t appreciate his adherence to agreed upon practices. And there are pastors who insist on staying on long after retirement age after, when  their ability to shepherd the flock has gone downhill. Finances, control issues, and a host of other things play into it, including lots of emotional investment on both sides. Nobody who has given his life to serving in a particular place wants to be told not to let the door hit him on the way out. Nobody wants to see their beloved pastor treated as less than an amazing chapter in the congregation’s history. Nobody wants their congregation to suffer irreparable harm from a pastor who is living on his reputation, or who has some theological hobby-horse that he needs a congregation in order to ride, or whatever. So if I were in some micro synod, I’d view  emeritus pastors as a pretty good mailing list of prospective allies. Most, of course, enjoy perfectly good relationships with the synod and their former congregations. But not all. And that remainder is low hanging fruit.

I can see what you're saying, but that basket of fruit is from the field on the right side of the farmhouse, and also those from that right field who were or are unhappy with the Missouri Synod. 

As to the math from Fr. Slusser, this has always been a math problem I have not solved well.  So there were three, now there are four.  Meaning the mission is one of four or 25%.  At the same time, the mission was 3 and added one, or one third more (kind of) .  And that's why we stick with the verbal rather than the mathematical area of life.


It is confusing. Going from 3 to 4 is a 33% increase, but going from 4 to 3 is a 25% decrease.


The percentage is found by taking the difference between the new and old numbers: 4-3=1;
dividing the difference by the old number (boldface above,) then multiplying by 100 to get %.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Dave Benke

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Re: “United Lutheran Mission Association” Wha?
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2019, 06:41:05 PM »
The idea of targeting emeritus pastors makes sense, though, because it is an ongoing problem. There are pastors who are forced into retirement because the congregation wants to call someone with a different personality. There are pastors who were forced to retire because the congregation didn’t appreciate his adherence to agreed upon practices. And there are pastors who insist on staying on long after retirement age after, when  their ability to shepherd the flock has gone downhill. Finances, control issues, and a host of other things play into it, including lots of emotional investment on both sides. Nobody who has given his life to serving in a particular place wants to be told not to let the door hit him on the way out. Nobody wants to see their beloved pastor treated as less than an amazing chapter in the congregation’s history. Nobody wants their congregation to suffer irreparable harm from a pastor who is living on his reputation, or who has some theological hobby-horse that he needs a congregation in order to ride, or whatever. So if I were in some micro synod, I’d view  emeritus pastors as a pretty good mailing list of prospective allies. Most, of course, enjoy perfectly good relationships with the synod and their former congregations. But not all. And that remainder is low hanging fruit.

I can see what you're saying, but that basket of fruit is from the field on the right side of the farmhouse, and also those from that right field who were or are unhappy with the Missouri Synod. 

As to the math from Fr. Slusser, this has always been a math problem I have not solved well.  So there were three, now there are four.  Meaning the mission is one of four or 25%.  At the same time, the mission was 3 and added one, or one third more (kind of) .  And that's why we stick with the verbal rather than the mathematical area of life.


It is confusing. Going from 3 to 4 is a 33% increase, but going from 4 to 3 is a 25% decrease.


The percentage is found by taking the difference between the new and old numbers: 4-3=1;
dividing the difference by the old number (boldface above,) then multiplying by 100 to get %.

So then, when one of the now four churches in the ULMA folds, the decline from 4 -3 will take place at a lower percentage rate than their growth from three to four, which is at a higher percentage.  I love this math stuff.  We recently grew at a rate of 33% but when the same church left a year later, we only lost 25% of our total.  We've therefore slowed our decline by adding and then subtracting one church. 

Dave Benke

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Re: “United Lutheran Mission Association” Wha?
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2019, 07:30:28 PM »
I got a letter and brochure from the “United Lutheran Mission Association” whose byline is “To establish traditional Lutheran congregations wherever God opens a door”.  My analysis is this is NOT an LCMS groups, but describes itself as Waltherian.

I received the letter because I am on Emeritus status and they wonder if this is voluntary.  They say many LCMS Emeritus Pastors would love to be serving a congregation but have perhaps been retired without their full cooperation.  Really?  I guess this could happen....I deliberately worked myself out of a job as parish and high school took on a new and never done before type of arrangement and I set up my successor to be Pastor of the congregation and Chaplain and theology teacher at the high school.  Anyway....sorry for the detour....my wife tells me I do it in sermons and conversations, and my college students loved my tangents because they weren’t testable material.....

Going back to ULMA, they list a “Walther Seminary” in Decatur, IL, where the correspondence originates.  They describe wanting to plant old-style LCMS congregations or find Emeritus LCMS Pastors to serve their vacancies.

Anyone else get this?  What say all y’all?  Oh, GO PACKERS!

This is the association of three congregations, two from Central Illinois and one from Michigan, that houses the once and always Jack Cascione.  His congregation left the Missouri Synod and ended up in the ULMA.  So the missions they've started are as follows:  (fill in the blank, because it's empty space right now).

Mostly, Jack is out there combating the short ending of Mark, on catechetical grounds.

Dave Benke

He also provides persuasive evidence of the long ending of Mark on textual grounds.  His book, Repetition in the Bible, is a fascinating study that calls into question the received wisdom of the textual critics about which manuscripts are the best.

Charles Austin

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Re: “United Lutheran Mission Association” Wha?
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2019, 07:41:24 PM »
So two or three affiliated congregations (that might be considered renegade) are trying to recruit LCMS pastors for their mission work? Sounds like shepherd stealing to me.
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Steven W Bohler

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Re: “United Lutheran Mission Association” Wha?
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2019, 09:00:58 PM »

This is the association of three congregations, two from Central Illinois and one from Michigan, that houses the once and always Jack Cascione.  His congregation left the Missouri Synod and ended up in the ULMA.  So the missions they've started are as follows:  (fill in the blank, because it's empty space right now).


They have a mission in Southern California.

spt+

Okeydokey - from 3 to 4 - 25% growth!

Dave Benke

How many mission churches has the Atlantic District started lately?

J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: “United Lutheran Mission Association” Wha?
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2019, 11:29:54 PM »
 

As to the math from Fr. Slusser, this has always been a math problem I have not solved well.  So there were three, now there are four.  Meaning the mission is one of four or 25%.  At the same time, the mission was 3 and added one, or one third more (kind of) .  And that's why we stick with the verbal rather than the mathematical area of life.


It is confusing. Going from 3 to 4 is a 33% increase, but going from 4 to 3 is a 25% decrease.


The percentage is found by taking the difference between the new and old numbers: 4-3=1;
dividing the difference by the old number (boldface above,) then multiplying by 100 to get %.

Thank you, Pr. Stoffregen.

Rarely do we agree on things theological but when it comes to matters mathematical we are of one mind.

The percentage increase...particularly when dealing with small numbers...illustrates the economic principle of "decreasing marginal utility".   Going from 3 to 4 congregations is 33% growth.  But the next mission start (from 4 to 5) will be only 25% growth and the next but 20%.

An excursus:

The northeastern US is in the grip of a several day Arctic blast.   Yesterday the high only reached a couple of tenths of a degree above freezing.  So my woodstove has been burning non-stop.

A few years ago I realized that keeping a cast iron kettle on the stove would capture some of the latent heat which would otherwise go up the chimney, since every pound of water that evaporates releases 1000 BTUs.   (Remember, 8 pounds to a gallon).

The second kettle--added later that season--doubled the BTU output.  It was a 100% increase.

The third kettle--added the next season--boosted the BTU output but only by 50%.

Five years ago--just before a severe ice storm--I added a fourth kettle.   It increased the output by 33%.

There is no room for any additional kettles.  That said, tonight--with the outside temperature in the low 20's--the BTU output has been such that the house HVAC system has only run once since mid-afternoon.   And during that same time more than 16,000 BTUs have been released through the hissing kettles.

"Once a mathematics minor always a mathematics minor."

« Last Edit: December 20, 2019, 11:57:18 PM by J. Thomas Shelley »
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Brian Stoffregen

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Re: “United Lutheran Mission Association” Wha?
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2019, 02:21:33 AM »
The northeastern US is in the grip of a several day Arctic blast.   Yesterday the high only reached a couple of tenths of a degree above freezing.  So my woodstove has been burning non-stop.


Further excursus: we took out our fireplace in the remodeling. We never used it in the 12 years we've been here and the previous owners never used it. BTW I finally broke down yesterday and turned on the furnace. It was about 67ş in the house.

Quote
A few years ago I realized that keeping a cast iron kettle on the stove would capture some of the latent heat which would otherwise go up the chimney, since every pound of water that evaporates releases 1000 BTUs.   (Remember, 8 pounds to a gallon).

The second kettle--added later that season--doubled the BTU output.  It was a 100% increase.

The third kettle--added the next season--boosted the BTU output but only by 50%.

Five years ago--just before a severe ice storm--I added a fourth kettle.   It increased the output by 33%.


All your mathematical answers are correct for your particular comments. However, if you talked about the whole growth: going from 1 kettle to 4 kettles, then it's a 300% increase.


Quote
"Once a mathematics minor always a mathematics minor."


While I don't have a math degree, my psych degree involved a lot of statistics; and in high school I scored in the 99% on the standardized math tests.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]