CHICAGO: Same-sex salvation

Started by JMOtterman, July 25, 2007, 11:20:53 PM

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LutherMan

QuoteWhile not part of the LBW/OSB rite

Pr. Tibbetts,
What is OSB, please?

Brian Stoffregen

Quote from: LutherMan on July 27, 2007, 12:59:02 AM
QuoteWhile not part of the LBW/OSB rite

Pr. Tibbetts,
What is OSB, please?
Occasional Services Book
I flunked retirement. Serving as a part-time interim in Ferndale, WA.

LutherMan

#17
Thanks Pr. Stoffregen. Is it the OSB, or Altar Book a pastor uses for baptism's etc. during Divine Service?

Brian Stoffregen

Quote from: LutherMan on July 27, 2007, 01:10:27 AM
Thanks Pr. Stoffregen. Is it the OSB, or Altar Book a pastor uses for baptism's etc. during Divine Service?
The baptism liturgy is in LBW's altar book and the pew edition. It is not in the smaller OSB. However, the smaller book includes rites for, "Enrollment of Candidates for Baptism," "Baptism in an Emergency," "Public Recognition of the Baptism," "Anniversary of a Baptism."
I flunked retirement. Serving as a part-time interim in Ferndale, WA.

Pilgrim

Re: Pr. Tibbetts,

To which Texas synod do you refer?

Pr. Tim Christ
Pr. Tim Christ, STS

Erma_S._Wolf

Quote from: JMOtterman on July 25, 2007, 11:20:53 PM
"Some of the churches with the most growth in this synod are led by gay pastors in committed relationships," said Bishop Paul Landahl, 69, who has led the Metropolitan Chicago Synod since 2001.

Does this strike anyone else as being a remarkable comment?  Just how many congregations in this synod are served by gay pastors in committed relationships with the knowledge of the bishop?

Erma Wolf


navyman

#21
Quote from: Vern on July 26, 2007, 02:27:49 PM
As previously noted, I stand opposed!!


???Vern

Sad thing Vern is the Pew Members had nothing to say about this, and will continue to have no say!  This one hugh reason I don't put my trust in any religion period.  I put my trust in Scripture alone.

Even the ALC was given all inds of promise before during and after the merger.  However, none of them came to light.  The revisionist, enlightment crowed got what they wanted, a Lutheran Church like no Other.

As you can see, the ELCA HQ made sure that Lutheran Doctine and Theology, as well as th Confessions, all have hugh holes and are  so big that you could drive a freight train through them.

Yet, these people are so proud to call thesmselves Lutheran.  I think Martin Luther would be isck to his stomach about the who mess, not to even think what God thinks.  Of which, its not a concern in this life, however, maybe when they met Christ face to face, it may be an issue.

Its really interesting to read, and to see how are wonderful church funtions.  The Bishop is concerned about proper communion, however, he doesn't have to believe in Scriputure or support it.

How very sad!

Don Whitbeck


navyman

Quote from: Richard Johnson on July 26, 2007, 02:33:10 PM
Quote from: ptmccain on July 26, 2007, 02:16:00 PM
Richard, that's a very interesting observation about the requirement to believe, or lack thereof. Made me go take a peek at our [LCMS] ordination rite to see if we require personal assent and belief. [I know it is assumed, but...assumptions are assumptions, not certainties].

OK, the wording of the questions put to the ordinand are as follows:

Do you believe and confess the canonical books of the Old and New Testaments to be the inspired Word of God and the only infallible rule of faith and practice?

Do you believe and confess the three Ecumenical Creeds....as faithful testimonies to the truth of the Holy Scriptures, and do you reject all the errors which they condemn?

Do you confess (lists the individual documents in the Book of Concord) -- as these are contained in the Book of Concord -- are also in agreement with this one Scriptural faith?

So...I would say that this is a requirement of personal belief, though I suppose somebody intending to deceive would find some way to so understand these questions as to not necessarily asking if the person personally agrees with all this, but that would be a stretch, I think.

I like yours a lot better than ours, which is:

The church in which you are to be ordained confesses that the Holy Scriptures are the Word of God and are the norm of its faith and life. We accept, teach, and confess the Apostles', the Nicene and the Athanasian Creeds. We also acknowledge the Lutheran Confessions as true witnesses and faithful expositions of the Holy Scriptures. Wil you therefore preach and teach in accordance with the Holy Scriptures and these creeds and confessions?


Richard, why do we only use a small part of what it really says?  Do we not care for the rest ot the passage?  Or is it not used for correction?

Don Whitbeck

navyman

#23
Quote from: ptmccain on July 26, 2007, 02:37:16 PM
Wow, really? Geesh, that has a loophole in it the size of Montana. Couldn't even a non-Christian take that promise, in the form it is worded?

I'm not trying to be harsh here, but I'm truly stunned by this. I had no idea it was like this for you folks.



Pastor McCain:

Some of us have been fighting within the ELCA for years!  This is why we fight, because we want to stand on Scripture and the Lutheran Confessions, the Book of Concord.  Not just to say we do, but don't, not to say we stand on the Sola's but we don't, not to say we stand on Scripture for everything, but we don't.

This is why we have reform groups within the ELCA, this is why we are losing congregations and members, every year, its because what you read here is what they really believe, teach, and confess, this is not what Martin Luther told us to believe, teach, and confess.

You can see why many, many, many, pew members are just sick about the whole mess, as well as some pastors.  These Bishops have no concern for the life of the church.  There Church stand above Scripture, it doesn't follow them, in around about way, its mankind telling God what we are going to do, full steam ahead, right into the gates of ----!

I think the Book of Concord, tells it like it is, we are not Lutheran in the real since, we are copy cats, and we use it for our benefit, and could care less what real Christians think of us!

I'm truly, sickened by what I read here, However, remember please, that many of us do not support the misbeliefs, teachings, or support Higgins Road.  Would a true man of GOd make such a statement?

Truely, if this was put to a churchwide vote world wide, I think you would find that it would be defeated hands down, along with many other wonderful false teachings that we are subject to.

The majority of us, go to church to worship Christ, and the rest of it is just out of our hands.  Its our wonderful leaders who have put us in this mess, and it all stated when we rejected Concordia, for CCM.

Respectfully,

Don Whitbeck

ptmccain

Don, I can see how my comment caused some confusion. I'm very aware of all the efforts in the ELCA to keep it faithful to God's Word and the Lutheran Confessions, and respect all who wish to be and remain genuinely Lutheran....my comment was simply that I had not known before of the promises required of persons being ordained, or, I should say, the lack of promises required of those being ordained.

Vern

Once again Brian is attempting to change the subject. How does his latest rants have anything to do with the subject of this thread?

Richard Johnson, I think some control is needed.

Vern

Richard Johnson

Quote from: Erma_S._Wolf on July 27, 2007, 12:06:06 PM
Quote from: JMOtterman on July 25, 2007, 11:20:53 PM
"Some of the churches with the most growth in this synod are led by gay pastors in committed relationships," said Bishop Paul Landahl, 69, who has led the Metropolitan Chicago Synod since 2001.

Does this strike anyone else as being a remarkable comment?  Just how many congregations in this synod are served by gay pastors in committed relationships with the knowledge of the bishop?


Yes, remarkable, in several ways. Also a great ruse often used to hide reality. "This church's worship attendance increased 20% last year." True enough. It increased from 20 to 24.
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

Steven Tibbetts

Quote from: Pilgrim on July 27, 2007, 11:22:59 AM
To which Texas synod do you refer?

I don't recall.  What I do recall is someone, about a dozen years ago on LutherLink, describing the signing the Augustana at an ordination in Texas in such a way that it sounded like the normal practice dating back into the 19th Century.  Struck me then (and now) as an excellent idea.

Pax, Steven+
The Rev. Steven Paul Tibbetts, STS
Pastor Zip's Blog

Richard Johnson

Quote from: Vern on July 27, 2007, 02:10:41 PM
Once again Brian is attempting to change the subject. How does his latest rants have anything to do with the subject of this thread?

Richard Johnson, I think some control is needed.

Vern

Tell it to Peter Speckhard.
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

peter_speckhard

Quote from: Richard Johnson on July 27, 2007, 03:44:52 PM
Quote from: Vern on July 27, 2007, 02:10:41 PM
Once again Brian is attempting to change the subject. How does his latest rants have anything to do with the subject of this thread?

Richard Johnson, I think some control is needed.

Vern

Tell it to Peter Speckhard.
Sorry, I have no idea what the complaint is referring to. I didn't remove any posts and I can't find any rants by Brian or anyone else in this thread. Am I missing something?

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