Author Topic: Impeachment Hearings  (Read 123900 times)

Eileen Smith

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #1110 on: February 09, 2020, 06:46:26 PM »
A while back Pr. Speckhard said he's never seen anything concrete about President Trump's career racism. This piece from The Atlantic does a nice job collecting examples throughout the decades: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/06/trump-racism-comments/588067/

BTW, I don't call Trump a racist as a shorthand to call his voters/supporters racist. I call Trump a racist because he is one. I very much doubt anyone on this board who supports him is a racist. Again, I understand that a great number of people who vote for him do so because their conscience is convicted that he is the best person to turn the tide against abortion. My concern is with those who cheerlead him in all things.

M. Staneck
That article is very telling about how deeply and long Donald Trump has been acting in a racist fashion, and how that has gained him the approval of conservatives in the Republican party. He is willing to say and do what more careful Republicans could not bring themselves to say or do.

Peace,
Michael

 New York City natives know first hand that Donald Trump managed his NYC real estate as a racist.  My dad, like many immigrants, eventually owned a few small NYC apartment buildings. He also earned a living painting apartments. Some of his buddies scraped floors, others did plumbing, still others did plumbing. He, like his fellow immigrants, rented to persons regardless of their race.

The fact that the large Trump Real Estate Empire did not rent to persons of color was well known among NYC landlords.

Marie Meyer   

Sadly that was not my family's immigration experience.  My parents, Italian, were denied apartments by both German and Irish landlords.  Only Jewish people would rent to them.  While the building they lived in eventually joined by my sister and me was rather diverse there were many Jewish families and it is with them that my parents built their strongest relationships.  As a result my sister and I can speak a bit of Yiddish!

Richard Johnson

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #1111 on: February 09, 2020, 07:46:19 PM »
One might wonder--again, not judging his faith, but the labels we use--what it might mean for Trump to claim he is a Presbyterian. Is he a member of a Presbyterian congregation? Does he attend Presbyterian services with any regularity? Does he show any indication of knowing what it means to be a Presbyterian? If not, then it seems to me one might rightly question the label (without making any judgment about his heart).

Indeed.  And further, we can do the same with others such as Mrs. Pelosi.

Thing is, it is clear that Mrs. Pelosi is a member of the RCC and attends the RCC regularly. She is also clearly aware, and has stated, that she disagrees with the church's teaching in specific public policy areas, which indicates that she knows quite clearly what those teachings are.
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Richard Johnson

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #1112 on: February 09, 2020, 07:48:49 PM »



I just found him annoying.

My son, who was at that time in elementary school, asked me not to listen to Limbaugh while driving him to school. "He makes my stomach hurt," he said.
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RogerMartim

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #1113 on: February 09, 2020, 08:09:34 PM »
From Pastor Bohler:
How did you react when Rush Limbaugh said he hoped President Obama would fail -- not because of any racial animosity but because he opposed the president's policies?  My guess is you screamed "Racist! Hater!"

I suppose it is OK for Rush Limbaugh to sing as he once did, "Barack the Magic Negro" to the tune of Puff the Magic Dragon; or to a Black caller he once said, "When you take the bone out of your nose..." And I am not suppose to think that perhaps Limbaugh is a racist?

jebutler

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #1114 on: February 09, 2020, 08:35:09 PM »
One might wonder--again, not judging his faith, but the labels we use--what it might mean for Trump to claim he is a Presbyterian. Is he a member of a Presbyterian congregation? Does he attend Presbyterian services with any regularity? Does he show any indication of knowing what it means to be a Presbyterian? If not, then it seems to me one might rightly question the label (without making any judgment about his heart).

Indeed.  And further, we can do the same with others such as Mrs. Pelosi.

Thing is, it is clear that Mrs. Pelosi is a member of the RCC and attends the RCC regularly. She is also clearly aware, and has stated, that she disagrees with the church's teaching in specific public policy areas, which indicates that she knows quite clearly what those teachings are.

Many years ago, Pope John Paul II came to Boston. There was an interview in the _Boston Herald_ with a RCC woman who made it clear that she was at odds with many of the teachings of the RCC. She stated, "I have my viewpoints and the Pope has his. And I'm as just a good a Catholic as he is!"
The truth we preach is not an abstract thing. The truth is a Person. The goodness we preach is not an ideal quality. The goodness is Someone who is good. The love we preach is God himself in Christ. --H. Grady Davis

peter_speckhard

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #1115 on: February 09, 2020, 09:13:59 PM »
From Pastor Bohler:
How did you react when Rush Limbaugh said he hoped President Obama would fail -- not because of any racial animosity but because he opposed the president's policies?  My guess is you screamed "Racist! Hater!"

I suppose it is OK for Rush Limbaugh to sing as he once did, "Barack the Magic Negro" to the tune of Puff the Magic Dragon; or to a Black caller he once said, "When you take the bone out of your nose..." And I am not suppose to think that perhaps Limbaugh is a racist?
His long time friend and call screener know Rush and his show better than anyone, and is himself black, and would take umbrage at your suggestion. Or he just might not care what you think. When you make a living “demonstrating absurdity by being absurd” and you find identity politics absurd, that’s the sort of thing that’s going to happen. I’d be very interested to see a link to context of those alleged statements by Limbaugh.

But in case my own past comes back to haunt me, let me clarify that no, I don’t think the church should raise money via temple prostitution even though I’m on record as favoring it.

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #1116 on: February 09, 2020, 09:20:15 PM »
One might wonder--again, not judging his faith, but the labels we use--what it might mean for Trump to claim he is a Presbyterian. Is he a member of a Presbyterian congregation? Does he attend Presbyterian services with any regularity? Does he show any indication of knowing what it means to be a Presbyterian? If not, then it seems to me one might rightly question the label (without making any judgment about his heart).

Indeed.  And further, we can do the same with others such as Mrs. Pelosi.

Thing is, it is clear that Mrs. Pelosi is a member of the RCC and attends the RCC regularly. She is also clearly aware, and has stated, that she disagrees with the church's teaching in specific public policy areas, which indicates that she knows quite clearly what those teachings are.

I haven't said Pelosi isn't a Catholic.  I said she wasn't sincere when she said she doesn't hate the president and prays for him all the time.  And as with Trump and his claim to be an evangelical, Presbyterian, Christian, pick your descriptor, we can all measure Mrs. Pelosi's words against her actions and her other words, along with her facial expressions, general demeanor, etc.  That is, I do not have to agree she is sincere just because she says so, or because you say so.  I can determine for myself whether I find her sincere.

Honestly, this seems a pretty deep dive to defend Mrs. Pelosi here.  I'm not sure why that point, ripped from the context of my greater point, is such a pet peeve for you.  But if it makes you feel better to think Mrs. Pelosi is really some sort of Mother Angelica figure, praying for her enemies and totally not taking any joy in trying to remove them from office for partisan political gain, I suppose you have the right to that opinion.  It has yet to sway my opinion though.  I think she's disingenuous.  And I'm honestly surprised to see you go round the bend to try to prove her sincerity, especially in light of the fact that you so very clearly do not care to apply the same "charity" (I use scare quotes here because I don't think it is charity at issue, but rather blind acquiescence to a narrative) to the president.

Having said that, I think we've plumbed the depths of this issue.  I'm clearly not making any headway with you, and you are certainly not making any with me.  So this will be my last post on the subject.
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David Garner

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #1117 on: February 09, 2020, 09:30:11 PM »
From Pastor Bohler:
How did you react when Rush Limbaugh said he hoped President Obama would fail -- not because of any racial animosity but because he opposed the president's policies?  My guess is you screamed "Racist! Hater!"

I suppose it is OK for Rush Limbaugh to sing as he once did, "Barack the Magic Negro" to the tune of Puff the Magic Dragon; or to a Black caller he once said, "When you take the bone out of your nose..." And I am not suppose to think that perhaps Limbaugh is a racist?
His long time friend and call screener know Rush and his show better than anyone, and is himself black, and would take umbrage at your suggestion. Or he just might not care what you think. When you make a living “demonstrating absurdity by being absurd” and you find identity politics absurd, that’s the sort of thing that’s going to happen. I’d be very interested to see a link to context of those alleged statements by Limbaugh.

But in case my own past comes back to haunt me, let me clarify that no, I don’t think the church should raise money via temple prostitution even though I’m on record as favoring it.

"Barack the Magic Negro" was Rush Limbaugh making fun of this article:

https://www.latimes.com/la-oe-ehrenstein19mar19-story.html

But it’s clear that Obama also is running for an equally important unelected office, in the province of the popular imagination — the “Magic Negro.”

"The Magic Negro is a figure of postmodern folk culture, coined by snarky 20th century sociologists, to explain a cultural figure who emerged in the wake of Brown vs. Board of Education. “He has no past, he simply appears one day to help the white protagonist,” reads the description on Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_Negro .

He’s there to assuage white “guilt” (i.e., the minimal discomfort they feel) over the role of slavery and racial segregation in American history, while replacing stereotypes of a dangerous, highly sexualized black man with a benign figure for whom interracial sexual congress holds no interest."


Funny how no one ever calls David Ehrenstein a racist, though.

The lyrics to the song are available online.  They specifically reference Ehrenstein's article in the LA Times.  They clearly indicate Ehrenstein's premise that Obama is winning because he's fake, not authentic like Al Sharpton or Snoop Dogg.  They also reference Joe Biden's comment that Barack Obama was the first mainstream African American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice looking guy.

But of course, Limbaugh is the racist for making fun of the people on the left who ACTUALLY SAID THESE THINGS.  Because he's a Republican.  As usual.

Here are the lyrics (note: the song was sung by Paul Shanklin in a parody of Al Sharpton's voice):

Barack the Magic Negro lives in D.C.
The L.A. Times, they called him that
'Cause he's not authentic like me.
Yeah, the guy from the L.A. paper
Said he makes guilty whites feel good
They'll vote for him, and not for me
'Cause he's not from the hood.

See, real black men, like Snoop Dog,
Or me, or Farrakhan
Have talked the talk, and walked the walk.
Not come in late and won!

[refrain]

Oh, Barack the Magic Negro, lives in D.C.
The L.A. Times, they called him that
'Cause he's black, but not authentically.
Oh, Barack the Magic Negro, lives in D.C.
The L.A. Times, they called him that
'Cause he's black, but not authentically.

Some say Barack's "articulate"
And bright and new and "clean."
The media sure loves this guy,
A white interloper's dream!
But, when you vote for president,
Watch out, and don't be fooled!
Don't vote the Magic Negro in -
'Cause 'cause I won't have nothing after all these years of sacrifice
And I won't get justice. This is about justice. This isn't about me, it's about justice.
It's about buffet. I don't have no buffet and there won't be any church contributions,
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

David Garner

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #1118 on: February 09, 2020, 09:46:49 PM »
Something fascinating about the post-Trump world, where Trump hears the accusations of racism thrown at people like him and Limbaugh and laughs them off with the scorn they genuinely deserve:  the left in this country cannot help itself.  Starved of Republicans they can shame with lies, they eat their own:

https://www.newsweek.com/buttigieg-tea-party-video-1472730?fbclid=IwAR0MniAVtH6N885w-XYRFuBmlok9s1hCEwcmBROU6yGSGVw5EvEf8QYbQzA

Now, my dad was involved in the Tea Party, so I don't think people in the Tea Party are racist by association.  But I also laugh, because Buttigieg deserves it.  Because he does the same thing (witness his tirades against Mike Pence, who has only ever been nice to Buttigieg and had good things to say about him).  Left-on-left fratricide is one of the most comical features of our new woke society.
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peter_speckhard

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #1119 on: February 09, 2020, 09:48:46 PM »
From Pastor Bohler:
How did you react when Rush Limbaugh said he hoped President Obama would fail -- not because of any racial animosity but because he opposed the president's policies?  My guess is you screamed "Racist! Hater!"

I suppose it is OK for Rush Limbaugh to sing as he once did, "Barack the Magic Negro" to the tune of Puff the Magic Dragon; or to a Black caller he once said, "When you take the bone out of your nose..." And I am not suppose to think that perhaps Limbaugh is a racist?
His long time friend and call screener know Rush and his show better than anyone, and is himself black, and would take umbrage at your suggestion. Or he just might not care what you think. When you make a living “demonstrating absurdity by being absurd” and you find identity politics absurd, that’s the sort of thing that’s going to happen. I’d be very interested to see a link to context of those alleged statements by Limbaugh.

But in case my own past comes back to haunt me, let me clarify that no, I don’t think the church should raise money via temple prostitution even though I’m on record as favoring it.

"Barack the Magic Negro" was Rush Limbaugh making fun of this article:

https://www.latimes.com/la-oe-ehrenstein19mar19-story.html

But it’s clear that Obama also is running for an equally important unelected office, in the province of the popular imagination — the “Magic Negro.”

"The Magic Negro is a figure of postmodern folk culture, coined by snarky 20th century sociologists, to explain a cultural figure who emerged in the wake of Brown vs. Board of Education. “He has no past, he simply appears one day to help the white protagonist,” reads the description on Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_Negro .

He’s there to assuage white “guilt” (i.e., the minimal discomfort they feel) over the role of slavery and racial segregation in American history, while replacing stereotypes of a dangerous, highly sexualized black man with a benign figure for whom interracial sexual congress holds no interest."


Funny how no one ever calls David Ehrenstein a racist, though.

The lyrics to the song are available online.  They specifically reference Ehrenstein's article in the LA Times.  They clearly indicate Ehrenstein's premise that Obama is winning because he's fake, not authentic like Al Sharpton or Snoop Dogg.  They also reference Joe Biden's comment that Barack Obama was the first mainstream African American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice looking guy.

But of course, Limbaugh is the racist for making fun of the people on the left who ACTUALLY SAID THESE THINGS.  Because he's a Republican.  As usual.

Here are the lyrics (note: the song was sung by Paul Shanklin in a parody of Al Sharpton's voice):

Barack the Magic Negro lives in D.C.
The L.A. Times, they called him that
'Cause he's not authentic like me.
Yeah, the guy from the L.A. paper
Said he makes guilty whites feel good
They'll vote for him, and not for me
'Cause he's not from the hood.

See, real black men, like Snoop Dog,
Or me, or Farrakhan
Have talked the talk, and walked the walk.
Not come in late and won!

[refrain]

Oh, Barack the Magic Negro, lives in D.C.
The L.A. Times, they called him that
'Cause he's black, but not authentically.
Oh, Barack the Magic Negro, lives in D.C.
The L.A. Times, they called him that
'Cause he's black, but not authentically.

Some say Barack's "articulate"
And bright and new and "clean."
The media sure loves this guy,
A white interloper's dream!
But, when you vote for president,
Watch out, and don't be fooled!
Don't vote the Magic Negro in -
'Cause 'cause I won't have nothing after all these years of sacrifice
And I won't get justice. This is about justice. This isn't about me, it's about justice.
It's about buffet. I don't have no buffet and there won't be any church contributions,
Typical. Progressives stupidly decry the Obama phenomenon as essentially racist. A conservative ridicules the manifest stupidity of those progressives. Progressives then blame conservatives for the views progressives hold.

Once people wake up from wokeness and realize that identity politics itself is both racist and absurd, suddenly the people pointing that out and having fun while doing so seem less offensive.

David Garner

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #1120 on: February 09, 2020, 09:54:01 PM »
Typical. Progressives stupidly decry the Obama phenomenon as essentially racist. A conservative ridicules the manifest stupidity of those progressives. Progressives then blame conservatives for the views progressives hold.

Once people wake up from wokeness and realize that identity politics itself is both racist and absurd, suddenly the people pointing that out and having fun while doing so seem less offensive.

I think it was literally just last year that Lindsay Graham got Twitter bombed for making the "drag a hundred dollar bill through a trailer park" comment in reference to the Kavanaugh confirmation.

Of course, he was quoting James Carville actually saying that about Paula Jones, and Graham was specifically pointing out that much, much worse things have been said about sexual assault accusers than was ever said about Ms. Blasey-Ford.  But that is no matter.  We live in a culture that decides whether you harbor some malignant "ism" based on what policy positions you support or which party you tend to side with, not based on anything real. 
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Dan Fienen

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #1121 on: February 09, 2020, 10:09:40 PM »
Reminds me of a conference speaker I heard a while back that liked to spice up his presentations with ethnic humor. He told Hittite jokes since there are no longer people around that identify as Hittite to be offended. His Hittite jokes often started, "There were these two Hittites named Sven and Ollie.  . ."
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Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #1122 on: February 10, 2020, 10:49:03 AM »
One might wonder--again, not judging his faith, but the labels we use--what it might mean for Trump to claim he is a Presbyterian. Is he a member of a Presbyterian congregation? Does he attend Presbyterian services with any regularity? Does he show any indication of knowing what it means to be a Presbyterian? If not, then it seems to me one might rightly question the label (without making any judgment about his heart).

Indeed.  And further, we can do the same with others such as Mrs. Pelosi.

Thing is, it is clear that Mrs. Pelosi is a member of the RCC and attends the RCC regularly. She is also clearly aware, and has stated, that she disagrees with the church's teaching in specific public policy areas, which indicates that she knows quite clearly what those teachings are.

I haven't said Pelosi isn't a Catholic.  I said she wasn't sincere when she said she doesn't hate the president and prays for him all the time.  And as with Trump and his claim to be an evangelical, Presbyterian, Christian, pick your descriptor, we can all measure Mrs. Pelosi's words against her actions and her other words, along with her facial expressions, general demeanor, etc.  That is, I do not have to agree she is sincere just because she says so, or because you say so.  I can determine for myself whether I find her sincere.

Honestly, this seems a pretty deep dive to defend Mrs. Pelosi here.  I'm not sure why that point, ripped from the context of my greater point, is such a pet peeve for you.  But if it makes you feel better to think Mrs. Pelosi is really some sort of Mother Angelica figure, praying for her enemies and totally not taking any joy in trying to remove them from office for partisan political gain, I suppose you have the right to that opinion.  It has yet to sway my opinion though.  I think she's disingenuous.  And I'm honestly surprised to see you go round the bend to try to prove her sincerity, especially in light of the fact that you so very clearly do not care to apply the same "charity" (I use scare quotes here because I don't think it is charity at issue, but rather blind acquiescence to a narrative) to the president.

Having said that, I think we've plumbed the depths of this issue.  I'm clearly not making any headway with you, and you are certainly not making any with me.  So this will be my last post on the subject.


When football players on opposing teams hit and even hurt each other do those actions indicate that they hate each other? That is part of their job. Opponents in politics, in sports, in debates, in courtrooms, etc. do not have to be enemies. They can be on opposite sides without hating one another.
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Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #1123 on: February 10, 2020, 10:51:00 AM »
Reminds me of a conference speaker I heard a while back that liked to spice up his presentations with ethnic humor. He told Hittite jokes since there are no longer people around that identify as Hittite to be offended. His Hittite jokes often started, "There were these two Hittites named Sven and Ollie.  . ."


David Preus, past president of the ALC, did that. He started by saying that was criticized for telling Norwegian jokes (even though he was Norwegian ancestry). So he would talk about Hittites.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Charles Austin

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #1124 on: February 10, 2020, 11:25:19 AM »
I believe the idea of using Hittites as the basis for jokes originated with Dr. Martin Marty many years ago.
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