Author Topic: Impeachment Hearings  (Read 123901 times)

David Garner

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #930 on: February 06, 2020, 11:48:21 AM »
I started listening to Rush when he first started because he had news, and takes on the news, that were unavailable anywhere else. It was just dawning on people that the "news" was actually a narrative, but all of the news had the same narrative, and it wasn't told according to the worldview that many, if not most Americans held. Rush was the first one who could give the day-by-day news narrative from the perspective of the worldview I tended to hold.

In order to do so, he had to buck the tendency to want to fit in and therefore get along, which leads to group think. He had not merely to disagree but to show he disdained the opinions of the mainstream press, which alerted his listeners to the fact that the press was offering a narrative and that narrative was contrary to their values, but they were free to ignore it.

I stopped listening when I got the internet because suddenly I had access to the same sources he apparently used. Various conservative news aggregating and opinion sites were available directly (though they might not have existed but for the market Rush created for them). Plus, I hate hate hate hate commercials and background noise, so listening to the radio is a chore unless I'm driving somewhere or have absolutely nothing to do. So for many years I didn't listen to Rush except maybe for a bit at lunchtime or in the weeks leading up to a national election.

What I've discovered recently is that he has changed his format over the years. He used to do all the mock "updates" and more shtick-related stuff, but there is no way in radio to keep up with satire sites and the internet. More recently I've realized that he really is, underneath the shtick, a very insightful cultural critic. People tune in not to find out what happened that the newspapers weren't writing about, or to listen to jokes and satire, but to understand the significance of events in terms of a contrary narrative to the one they're telling in the NYT and CNN. He's really good at it understanding in real time what most commentators pick up on and write about after the fact.

My recollection is he was also a very early supporter of President Trump.  Which suggests he, along with people on the left like Michael Moore and The Nation magazine and others, have a much better understanding of the American electorate and its frustrations than the corporate legacy media do.

He sees things others do not.  And those who do not wish to see those things, the better to keep their presumptions, very much dislike him for it.
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Charles Austin

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #931 on: February 06, 2020, 11:49:14 AM »
Heck yes, we have to pray for President Trump. Neither the law, or commonsense, or anything else on earth seems to bring him to a wholesome viewpoint. So itís going to have to be God grabbing him by the collar and shaking him until he listens.
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Linda

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #932 on: February 06, 2020, 11:56:39 AM »
I can just imagine God grabbing Speaker Pelosi by the collar and shaking her (while she's holding the SOTU address that she had ripped up) causing her to throw the ripped papers in the air like confetti! Would have been epic.

Linda

« Last Edit: February 06, 2020, 12:03:25 PM by Linda »

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #933 on: February 06, 2020, 12:02:36 PM »
My recollection is he was also a very early supporter of President Trump.  Which suggests he, along with people on the left like Michael Moore and The Nation magazine and others, have a much better understanding of the American electorate and its frustrations than the corporate legacy media do.

He sees things others do not.  And those who do not wish to see those things, the better to keep their presumptions, very much dislike him for it.


"The American electorate"? The largest group of "the American electorate" didn't vote for any candidate. The second largest group of "the American electorate" voted for Clinton. Trump came in third among "the American electorate".


What I'm missing in this discussion is any concern for the truth. As noted above, Limbaugh's "quotes" of opponents were often taken out of context so that the truth of the meaning was changed to fit his agenda. Are the lists of lies and exaggerations from the president "fake news" or are they the truth about his speeches?


The so-called "witch hunt" has resulted in folks going to prison. Crimes were committed. That is the truth. Even some of Trump's supporters agree that illegalities were committed by him, but not to the level of removing him from office. (The same was said by supporters of Bill Clinton, too.)
"The church Ö had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #934 on: February 06, 2020, 12:06:54 PM »
I can just imagine God grabbing Speaker Pelosi by the collar and shaking her (while she's holding the SOTU address that she had ripped up) causing her to throw them in the air like confetti! Would have been epic.


Showing her objections to the speech could have been much worse. Regardless of the reason, having her handshake snubbed by the president, probably put her in a poor mood throughout the speech. Other germaphobes, like Howie Mandel, will politely say to a person with an outstretched hand, "I'm sorry, I don't shake hands."
"The church Ö had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Michael Slusser

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #935 on: February 06, 2020, 12:11:45 PM »
In order to do so, he had to buck the tendency to want to fit in and therefore get along, which leads to group think. He had not merely to disagree but to show he disdained the opinions of the mainstream press, which alerted his listeners to the fact that the press was offering a narrative and that narrative was contrary to their values, but they were free to ignore it.
Rush Limbaugh used to be so connected with "group think" that the term "Dittoheads" was coined as a collective term for his fans. As I remember. Maybe those who coined the term envied their freedom to think outside the box.

Peace,
Michael
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Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #936 on: February 06, 2020, 12:16:20 PM »
In order to do so, he had to buck the tendency to want to fit in and therefore get along, which leads to group think. He had not merely to disagree but to show he disdained the opinions of the mainstream press, which alerted his listeners to the fact that the press was offering a narrative and that narrative was contrary to their values, but they were free to ignore it.
Rush Limbaugh used to be so connected with "group think" that the term "Dittoheads" was coined as a collective term for his fans. As I remember. Maybe those who coined the term envied their freedom to think outside the box.


Yes, outside of one large, generous, (i.e., liberal box) into a small box.
"The church Ö had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Steven Tibbetts

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #937 on: February 06, 2020, 12:47:34 PM »
What I'm missing in this discussion is any concern for the truth.


 ;D
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James J Eivan

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #938 on: February 06, 2020, 12:51:07 PM »
Yes, outside of one large, generous, (i.e., liberal box) into a small box.
Small box ... His radio program with by far the largest national audience.  Guess thatís your definition of small.😏

Steven Tibbetts

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #939 on: February 06, 2020, 01:12:31 PM »
Rush Limbaugh used to be so connected with "group think" that the term "Dittoheads" was coined as a collective term for his fans. As I remember.


I'm guessing you didn't actually listen to Rush's program very often when that came about. 

His listeners so repeatedly began on-air phone calls with "Thank you for expressing my point of view, Rush!" or "Thank you, Rush, for being such a breath of fresh air," or "Thank you, Rush, for your great show," and going on with the compliments that actual conversation on matters they cared about was impeded.  So rather than go on and on about how much you like the Rush and his program, just say "dittos" and get to the more important point.  "Dittoheads" was/is a self-description.

Pax, Steven+
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Linda

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #940 on: February 06, 2020, 01:27:55 PM »
Many, many times, when Rush's show first went national, callers would say that Rush echoed their own thoughts on government, taxes, the state of the world....  I remember over 30 years ago Rush would say that militant Islam is our greatest threat.  Millions of listeners have grown to have a real connection w/ Rush and many will be praying fervently for him.  I hope, as you grow closer to death, your detractors mean very little and the ones who love you, great and small, mean everything.

Linda

MaddogLutheran

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #941 on: February 06, 2020, 02:10:46 PM »
I can just imagine God grabbing Speaker Pelosi by the collar and shaking her (while she's holding the SOTU address that she had ripped up) causing her to throw the ripped papers in the air like confetti! Would have been epic.

This weekend's Saturday Night Live cold open is gonna be LIT.
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Eileen Smith

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #942 on: February 06, 2020, 02:36:26 PM »
Pete Buttigieg just tweeted that he cannot wait for President Buttigieg to award Rachel Maddow the Presidential Medal of Freedom.  I don't know if he was joking or not, but I will say this -- I wouldn't be mad.  It's the president's award.  He can give it to whomever he pleases.

For all of Rush Limbaugh's many faults, I don't think he's worse (for various reasons, but mostly being hyper-partisan or generally a bad person.....(cough....Bill Cosby)) than any of these past medal winners:

Barbra Streisand
John Paul Stevens
Bill Cosby
Jesse Jackson
Gloria Steinham
Donald Rumsfeld
Dick Cheney
Strom Thurmond
Edward Kennedy
Bill Clinton
Joe Biden
Tiger Woods

I mean, I'm sure there are a bunch I missed because I don't know who they are.  But I'm not looking at the above list and thinking "it's denigrating that Rush Limbaugh gets to share an award with them."  And I'm also not looking at that list and thinking "those people totally deserve to share an honor with Rosa Parks."

David, your comments are always well-thought out and well-reasoned.  I agree with you somewhat.  Yes, for me personally, there are names above that would not have been my first, second, or even third choice.   Not in defense but in one case, at least, I wonder did we have any idea at all of what Bill Cosby was doing when he wasn't playing everyone's dad.  Makes one wonder if it shouldn't be a posthumous award.  I will admit that my comments are less than two days after this award was given and carry with them an emotional response.  That's one of the problems with our instantaneous communication today and the influence of social media.  It is easier to act on emotion quickly than reason things out.  That said, I still think that this award was given in the same way - an emotional response to a terrible announcement of Limbaugh's cancer diagnosis.  It gives the appearance, which may not be true at all, that this was hastily put together.  Perhaps if it hadn't happened at the SOTU but a bit later on in the President's office it might have mitigated the feelings of those of us who do not agree with the action.  That said, as it is given at the president's prerogative and as I have no intention to run at this point, I'll admit Trump had every right to do this. 

David Garner

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #943 on: February 06, 2020, 02:50:14 PM »
In order to do so, he had to buck the tendency to want to fit in and therefore get along, which leads to group think. He had not merely to disagree but to show he disdained the opinions of the mainstream press, which alerted his listeners to the fact that the press was offering a narrative and that narrative was contrary to their values, but they were free to ignore it.
Rush Limbaugh used to be so connected with "group think" that the term "Dittoheads" was coined as a collective term for his fans. As I remember. Maybe those who coined the term envied their freedom to think outside the box.

Peace,
Michael

"Dittos" was not to indicate agreement with everything (or even anything) Limbaugh said, but to shorthand "hey Rush, long time listener, first time caller, I love the show and just want to thank you for all you do," etc.  Instead, Rush started having his callers say "Hey Rush, dittos." 

Neal Boortz used to do the same, but his was "blah, blah, blah."
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David Garner

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #944 on: February 06, 2020, 02:53:52 PM »
Pete Buttigieg just tweeted that he cannot wait for President Buttigieg to award Rachel Maddow the Presidential Medal of Freedom.  I don't know if he was joking or not, but I will say this -- I wouldn't be mad.  It's the president's award.  He can give it to whomever he pleases.

For all of Rush Limbaugh's many faults, I don't think he's worse (for various reasons, but mostly being hyper-partisan or generally a bad person.....(cough....Bill Cosby)) than any of these past medal winners:

Barbra Streisand
John Paul Stevens
Bill Cosby
Jesse Jackson
Gloria Steinham
Donald Rumsfeld
Dick Cheney
Strom Thurmond
Edward Kennedy
Bill Clinton
Joe Biden
Tiger Woods

I mean, I'm sure there are a bunch I missed because I don't know who they are.  But I'm not looking at the above list and thinking "it's denigrating that Rush Limbaugh gets to share an award with them."  And I'm also not looking at that list and thinking "those people totally deserve to share an honor with Rosa Parks."

David, your comments are always well-thought out and well-reasoned.  I agree with you somewhat.  Yes, for me personally, there are names above that would not have been my first, second, or even third choice.   Not in defense but in one case, at least, I wonder did we have any idea at all of what Bill Cosby was doing when he wasn't playing everyone's dad.  Makes one wonder if it shouldn't be a posthumous award.  I will admit that my comments are less than two days after this award was given and carry with them an emotional response.  That's one of the problems with our instantaneous communication today and the influence of social media.  It is easier to act on emotion quickly than reason things out.  That said, I still think that this award was given in the same way - an emotional response to a terrible announcement of Limbaugh's cancer diagnosis.  It gives the appearance, which may not be true at all, that this was hastily put together.  Perhaps if it hadn't happened at the SOTU but a bit later on in the President's office it might have mitigated the feelings of those of us who do not agree with the action.  That said, as it is given at the president's prerogative and as I have no intention to run at this point, I'll admit Trump had every right to do this.

I certainly think one can add to or subtract from my list.

I guess my point is this -- the people who are upset with Limbaugh getting this award probably have roughly the same feelings about him I have about Gloria Steinham or Teddy Kennedy.  Whatever one might say about Rush Limbaugh, he never drowned a campaign volunteer in his car.  Yet I can understand, despite my disagreements, why Steinham and Kennedy are considered giants in their respective fields.

Clinton is a bit of a mystery, I'll grant.  And my objection is not simply based on politics -- for example, I did not list another Democratic president who received the award, Jimmy Carter.  I just think any cheapening of the award happened long before Tuesday evening.
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