Author Topic: Impeachment Hearings  (Read 123876 times)

James_Gale

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #915 on: February 06, 2020, 07:51:18 AM »
Trump didn't shake Pence's hand either. Maybe he's a germaphobe?

I have seen similar sentiments to what Keith Falk wrote. I may not like Pelosi but she's no dope. She's an experienced politician. (And yes, that wasn't a compliment.) It was a good speech- school choice, pro-constitution, pro-life...  What wasn't to like? When Trump sticks to the teleprompter, he's not a horrible speaker.

And maybe that's part of his appeal? I don't think anyone expects lofty, soaring rhetoric or oratorical flourishes. He speaks like a quasi-regular guy. You can understand him. He wasn't using the speech to get into the history books. He probably overused words and phrases like "best", "greatest", and "best in history" and those are debatable points, but as I listened (was putting a 2yo to sleep at the time) I thought, "Maybe not the best but it sure beats the alternative." It was a good speech. And his comments on life issues certainly were the best ever in a State of the Union address.

Jeremy


President Trump reportedly is a germaphobe who doesn’t much like shaking hands. Was that a factor on Tuesday?  I have no idea.


https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/07/donald-trump-germaphobe-1399258

Eileen Smith

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #916 on: February 06, 2020, 08:15:27 AM »
Pastor Preus writes:
Rush Limbaugh is neither mean, nasty, nor vicious.  He is very funny!

I comment:
I actually listened to him for several years. I thought he would fade away after he no longer had the Clintons to hate. or when he was caught using his housekeeper to get extra opioid pills. Or when his personal life did not match his on-air righteousness.
No, he is not funny. Some folks here have asked that this humble correspondent be banned from this modest forum for whimsical musings nowhere near as mean-spirited as  Limbaugh’s denunciations of specific women, politicians, journalists, and anyone he considered “liberal.” He has spread hatred and division, and shown intentional disregard for honesty and truth.
The late Don Imus was funny. And he lost his radio show and advertisers for a few remarks considerably less offensive than Limbaugh’s years-long nasty ranting.

I first heard Limbaugh during the Obama administration.  He quoted something Obama said and while I don't remember the exact quote or even what it was about I do remember thinking what awful words from Obama.   I then read Obama's remarks.  Yes, the words that Limbaugh accused him of speaking were there but in a completely different context which gave them credence.  It became a game for me.  I would listen to portions of his program and then searched the original text(s) and what I found were comments misconstrued for purposes of creating hate.  I did this for a short time as it was impossible to continue listening to his hate-filled rhetoric.  It is very sad that that someone who used his position on radio to lie, to misconstrue, to put the worst construction on those whom he considered enemies (and he would use that word) be given this distinguished award.  One can only assume it was moved by the announcement of his advanced cancer - that's putting the best construction on it. 

Dan Fienen

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #917 on: February 06, 2020, 08:22:49 AM »
Oh the horror, Trump doesn't shake Pelosi's hand, or Pence's. Maybe he's being a germaphobe, maybe he's focused on his speech and doesn't notice, maybe he doesn't like her and snubs her. What a terrible person that makes him! Just goes to show that he shouldn't be president.


Pelosi ostentatiously tears up Trump's SOTU speech, well everybody's entitled to their opinion aren't they?


Frankly I think that the outrage over both is overdone. If an intentional snub, refusing to shake hands is a bit childish. Not clear it was a snub. Tearing up the speech was an intentional snub and also a bit childish. Also par for the course. If we want to complain about divisiveness in politics, neither Trump nor the Democratic leadership have done much to bridge the gaps.
Pr. Daniel Fienen
LCMS

D. Engebretson

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #918 on: February 06, 2020, 08:49:34 AM »
I think that many "awards" are often politically motivated or influenced. This medal is awarded at the discretion of the sitting president, much like knighthood is awarded by the Queen. I also suspect that if we examined the list of past recipients of the Medal of Freedom we are bound to find any number of things to questions the character of the recipients. Bill Cosby would be one (2002); I'm sure there are others. Should we review the list?

I was actually quite surprised when I heard that Rush Limbaugh had received this award.  He didn't seem like a typical candidate for such a reward for any number of reasons. That said, Trump did mention his humanitarian efforts. For example, he has raised millions of dollars for leukemia and lymphoma.  He also collects contributions to provide scholarships for children of Marines and law enforcement officers and agents who have died in the line of duty. But perhaps that is inconsequential next to his perceived faults.  How do we weigh one against the other? 

I also remember when Barach Obama received the Nobel Peace Prize in 2009.  It was awarded the year he took office.  They awarded it to him for "his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples." Really?  For less than a year of service as president and for only 7 years as a senator?  There seemed at the time more worthy recipients with greater accomplishments to match this rhetoric.

Maybe we need to have a bipartisan committee examine all potential recipients of the award.  But then, given the deeply partisan nature of our government at present I don't think we'd award anything.   
« Last Edit: February 06, 2020, 08:53:06 AM by D. Engebretson »
Pastor Don Engebretson
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Coach-Rev

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #919 on: February 06, 2020, 10:05:11 AM »
I read a mini-Twitter thread about this, and I think it was very insightful.  In essence, it argues that Speaker Pelosi (and, perhaps, by extension, the Democratic Party) is learning from President Trump.  Theatrics and distraction work.  She changed the narrative from the content of President Trump's State of the Union address to her actions of protest.  Whatever one may think of her lack of decorum, it shifted attention where she wanted it to go... sounds awfully familiar.

I would argue the opposite:  Trump is throwing the Democrats' game right back at them - and is the first president who has done so in the past 40 or so years.  For an opinion piece on this you can go here.

one quote of interest:  "Donald Trump is America ’s first wartime president in the Culture War."

that doesn't make it right.  But it is telling of the general state of both political parties today.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2020, 10:13:56 AM by Coach-Rev »
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David Garner

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #920 on: February 06, 2020, 10:20:15 AM »
Pete Buttigieg just tweeted that he cannot wait for President Buttigieg to award Rachel Maddow the Presidential Medal of Freedom.  I don't know if he was joking or not, but I will say this -- I wouldn't be mad.  It's the president's award.  He can give it to whomever he pleases.

For all of Rush Limbaugh's many faults, I don't think he's worse (for various reasons, but mostly being hyper-partisan or generally a bad person.....(cough....Bill Cosby)) than any of these past medal winners:

Barbra Streisand
John Paul Stevens
Bill Cosby
Jesse Jackson
Gloria Steinham
Donald Rumsfeld
Dick Cheney
Strom Thurmond
Edward Kennedy
Bill Clinton
Joe Biden
Tiger Woods

I mean, I'm sure there are a bunch I missed because I don't know who they are.  But I'm not looking at the above list and thinking "it's denigrating that Rush Limbaugh gets to share an award with them."  And I'm also not looking at that list and thinking "those people totally deserve to share an honor with Rosa Parks."
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

David Garner

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #921 on: February 06, 2020, 10:22:48 AM »
And before someone says "yes, Justice Stevens and Steinham and others are very politically toxic, but look at their impact," Rush Limbaugh single-handedly saved AM radio in this country, gave conservatives a voice at a time when the news media would not, and began the trend of increased information and expansion of allowable opinions in the public square that has continued to this very day.

He was a pioneer.  I'm not a big fan of his, and I fully understand why people don't like him.  But his impact is undeniable.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

D. Engebretson

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #922 on: February 06, 2020, 10:43:48 AM »
Thank you, David, for offering some balance to the discussion. 
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

peter_speckhard

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #923 on: February 06, 2020, 10:55:29 AM »
I started listening to Rush when he first started because he had news, and takes on the news, that were unavailable anywhere else. It was just dawning on people that the "news" was actually a narrative, but all of the news had the same narrative, and it wasn't told according to the worldview that many, if not most Americans held. Rush was the first one who could give the day-by-day news narrative from the perspective of the worldview I tended to hold.

In order to do so, he had to buck the tendency to want to fit in and therefore get along, which leads to group think. He had not merely to disagree but to show he disdained the opinions of the mainstream press, which alerted his listeners to the fact that the press was offering a narrative and that narrative was contrary to their values, but they were free to ignore it.

I stopped listening when I got the internet because suddenly I had access to the same sources he apparently used. Various conservative news aggregating and opinion sites were available directly (though they might not have existed but for the market Rush created for them). Plus, I hate hate hate hate commercials and background noise, so listening to the radio is a chore unless I'm driving somewhere or have absolutely nothing to do. So for many years I didn't listen to Rush except maybe for a bit at lunchtime or in the weeks leading up to a national election.

What I've discovered recently is that he has changed his format over the years. He used to do all the mock "updates" and more shtick-related stuff, but there is no way in radio to keep up with satire sites and the internet. More recently I've realized that he really is, underneath the shtick, a very insightful cultural critic. People tune in not to find out what happened that the newspapers weren't writing about, or to listen to jokes and satire, but to understand the significance of events in terms of a contrary narrative to the one they're telling in the NYT and CNN. He's really good at it understanding in real time what most commentators pick up on and write about after the fact.

peterm

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #924 on: February 06, 2020, 11:05:21 AM »
One might call the Republicans cowards, and that is putting the worst construction on it, assuming they did not act with any integrity.  Whether one agrees with them or not, one might see their action as one of genuine conviction that whatever the president was accused of doing it simply did not justify removing him from office. But some will not be willing to assume a higher motive. Cowardice is the only acceptable conclusion.   

I think that Pelosi's act of publicly tearing up Trump's State of the Union speech speaks volumes of where the decorum of the Democrats has gone.  If we are reduced to such childish stunts, then why should we accord her any more respect than she is unwilling to accord the President of the United States?

Did you think the same of the many republicans who stood and turned their backs on Obama, or the one who interrupted the speech to shout Liar!?  Or the President's refusal to shake her hand?  There are no clean hands on either side.
Rev. Peter Morlock- ELCA pastor serving two congregations in WIS

Charles Austin

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #925 on: February 06, 2020, 11:33:30 AM »
On a happier note, the more that I hear Mayor Pete speak, the better I like him.
He speaks of creating unity in the country, he speaks kindly across political lines, he speaks well of his Christian faith.
He speaks well of people who disagree with him.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

RDPreus

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #926 on: February 06, 2020, 11:35:26 AM »
I grew up when the liberal establishment dominated the airwaves.  Conservative viewpoints were ridiculed.  The so called most trusted man in America was a knee jerk liberal on all the key issues.  Except for magazines like Human Events and National Review, most of the print media dutifully followed the liberal establishment line.  When Rush Limbaugh came on the scene it was like a breath of fresh air!  Not only did he criticize the liberal orthodoxy, he mocked it!  No wonder he became so popular!  He did for AM radio what Trump did decades later for national politics.  The left hates Limbaugh and Trump.  This is part of their appeal.

Linda

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #927 on: February 06, 2020, 11:36:55 AM »
President Trump speaking at the 2020 prayer breakfast today: 

"I don't like people who use their faith as justification for doing what they know is wrong.  ..Nor do I like people who say, 'I pray for you', when they know that that's not so."

I agree with President Trump.

Linda

David Garner

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Re: Impeachment Hearings
« Reply #928 on: February 06, 2020, 11:43:55 AM »
Compare and contrast:

Uniter:  "How would (Mike Pence) allow himself to become the cheerleader for the porn star presidency? Is it that he stopped believing in scripture when he started believing Donald Trump?  I don't know. I don't know."

Divider:  "I hold Mayor Buttigieg in the highest personal regard. I see him as a dedicated public servant and a patriot."

Maybe the descriptors are flipped.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

Charles Austin

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Re: Impeachment Heari
« Reply #929 on: February 06, 2020, 11:46:34 AM »
Pastor Preus, you and others here keep focusing on what you say the “left” and “progressives” hate.
Can you not see how that impairs dialogue? I am trying to say here many times that I do not hate the current man in the White House. I do not hate Republicans. I do not hate those who disagree with me politically.
And I do not think that most Democrats are involved in hate either. We have some passion about what we think is doing damage to our country. But you cannot call it hate.  That passion is often strongly expressed in opposition to certain things and, yes, Certain people. I disagree strongly, but I do not denounce them or their religious faith.
Of course, if you feel you have the absolute, final, complete word from God on any particular issue, including who should be president, I suppose you might hate those who oppose the absolute word of God. And you would not want to work with such evil people.
That is part of our national problem.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.